[rodgersorganusers] Re: Analog
- From: noel jones <gedeckt@xxxxxxxx>
- To: rodgersorgan@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:55:29 -0500
Charlie, and all,
Before you read this, this is not an attack...everybody on this list
needs to visit a Rodgers dealer at least once every two years.
Make an appointment, let them know you are not calling to buy an organ,
but you would like a tour through the technical aspects and musical
aspects of what Rodgers is doing...
Do a patent search to see what PDI is all about...
Ask for technical documents from your dealer. Nothing propietary, but
there are some great things that Rodgers has in print that can be helpful.
Charlie Strack wrote:
>"Why are there those that prefer analog sound?"
>
>Here are my reasons:
>
>Sometimes I find digital organs lacking in a convincing ensemble--the =
>stops just don't come together "right".=20\
>
>If it is a Hillsboro, Oregon Rodgers...it is not the organ, but a bad
>design/voicing/installation. Pipe organs suffer the same fate.
>
>
>Sometimes I hear digital sound that I can only describe as two-dimensional-=
>-lacking a depth to the sound, that I don't find missing in analog =
>sound.=20
>
Same as above.
>
>Perhaps it is that there just are not that many pitch sources in a digital =
>instrument. To duplicate an analog Rodgers, much less a big pipe organ, =
>the digital would have to have as many individual clocks as analog organ, =
>and you're right back to an organ with lots of expensive oscillators.
>
Charlie, the digital has many, many more pitch sources than an
analog....espcially because they are not consigned to sit there waiting
to be played as analog oscillators are.
We all need to remeber that real pipes are also oscillators. A "true
digital pipe organ" would not have 61 pipes per rank per keyboard.
Instead it woudl have enough pipes that would represent the scaling and
then have them automatically adjust their physical length to the pitch
required.
Wouldn't that be a sight!
>
>
>My C-180 has, obviously, two tuning sources that are out of tune with =
>respect to each other, I imagine to give some semblance of "ensemble". But =
>they are too far out of tune for my ears with big registrations. It's =
>delicious, though, with a lone gedackt.
>
The C-180 has no relation to the digital tunign involved in the
domestically produced Rodgers Organs. The C-180 and Global, Insignia and
Allegiant series organs serve to fill a need for organs that are
affordable to a portion of the market. Their tonal equipmetn is not
produced in the US Rodgers factory.
>
>Even if the digital has a frequency table that doesn't have locked =
>octaves, whatever it has is fixed, without random variation. The analogs =
>have the random variations. There is NOTHING random in a digital organ.=20
>
Then why does the Rodgers have Random Tuning? There is a lottery goign
on every time you turn on a Rodgers with adjustment available to the
organist to determine exactly how much they prefer this random tuning to
affect the organ tuning THAT time it is turned on.
The pitch shift involed in winding is also adjustable...flexible winding
reuires complete freedom from LOCKED IN tuning, and no domestically
produced Rodgers that I install has locked octaves.
>
>So, while I admire what is being done with digital, I also appreciate the =
>sound of a fine analog organ. In some ways analog is less pipe-like than =
>the digitals and in some ways more pipe-like. I can only describe the =
>results from a good Rodgers analog as very musical.
>
>And, finally, with a digital organ you can only make voicing changes and =
>adjustments as far as the digital designer allows. With analog, you can =
>modify the circuits to go beyond the designer's intent & permission. If =
>you don't like and never use, say, the 4 ft spitzfl=F6te you can't do =
>anything about it on a digital instrument. The exception being, like with =
>some Rodgers voices, you have a choice behind the main voice. On an analog =
>organ, you can at least remove the offending stop, and likely substitute =
>something else quite easily.
>
A Rodgers voicer can produce massive changes in stoips, as you are
discusssing without pulling out a soldering iron.
>
>"The first organs to use sampled chimes were often criticized..and still =
>are, for the chimes=20
>sounding too much like someone actually striking a chime rod...whcih of=20
>course is what chimes are."
>
>There is a difference between "chimes" and "carillon". And even between =
>orchestral chimes & church chimes. I suspect most organists want the sound =
>of church chimes.=20
>
A chime does not know whether it is struck by a device held by a human
hand or a solenoid,,,,the sound of a chuime is that of a struck object.
A Rodgers TrueChime™ responds to the expression pedal iin its
stricking...it is not muffled by an expression pedal as a church chime
is...nor limited to 4 or 5 strike voltages as exposed Deagans and such
are....
>
>Church chimes are not hit by someone, but by solenoids. Solenoids cannot, =
>by their very nature, strike exactly the way a person would. Also, =
>solenoids have virtually a fixed strike strength. (Yes, there is some =
>variation with voltage, but it is pretty minimal and nothing close to what =
>a human can do.) Digital chimes should not be touch sensitive to duplicate =
>church chimes. If they are touch sensivite, then they duplicate the =
>orchestral instrument, not the church instrument.
>
>The difficulty of using an analog scheme to make a chimes sound is exactly =
>as Noel describes: the chime overtones are not really on the harmonic =
>series--they are off-tune. (This is true of many idiophones--struck solid =
>objects.) Without a separate oscillator tune to each individual harmonic =
>(read: expensive), an analog approach won't be very convincing.
>
>Digital samples work wonderfully for most percussions.
>
>Charlie
>
>____________________________________________________________________
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>please contact noeljones@xxxxxxxxxxxxx for help!
>
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>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or set to vacation,
go to www.frogmusic.com/rodgersmem.html
If you have any difficulty with this or PayPal,
please contact noeljones@xxxxxxxxxxxxx for help!
Shop for Playing Guides to your Rodgers Organ at Frog Music Press
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