All:
I have 4 steamers and 2 diesels built before 1975. All run great without any
electronics whatsoever. Hmmmm! The old days were pretty good weren't they?. I
am hopeful thought that a robust aftermarket builds up to service the clientele
by one means or another. I have a 52 year old airplane that the original maker
doesn't support fully anymore. Different aftermarket groups have come in to
fill the void. The same is try with my 1960 MGA. There are more parts
available now than in the 1980s. We are simply going to have to wait it out
until then.
Jack
________________________________
From: rc3r-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <rc3r-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Peter
Condro <pcondro@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2020 6:36 PM
To: rc3r@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <rc3r@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [rc3r] People talking about the future of toy train electronics
I belong to the Super O online group. This was a discussion about the future of
toy train electronics as seen by some of the members…..I thought some of you
might enjoy it…..
Greetings,
Once, the MTH rights ownership is settled in this shutdown/sale/transfer series
of events, I suspect the market will be ripe for one or more electronic train
related manufacturer(s) to step in and develop replacement control boards for
these trains.
In the scale trains world (HO, N, 2 rail O scale, etc,) I am seeing a trend to
replacing factory decoders with upgraded parts featuring greater electronic
stability, more features, and better compatibility with diverse array of
manufacturers' being offered.
I think it is only a matter of time before the high-rail market sees a similar
upstart.
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Sure thing Mike, I'll give you my 2 cents worth. Having worked for Right of
Way and Train America Studios and done a few boards for just about everybody
else...here goes...
Keep in mind that Lionel TMCC and MTH DCS were both created by outside design
firms whose contracts are long completed. Consider now if Lionel and MTH have
the electronic horsepower to accomplish the continuation of their respective
product lines. I believe they do however they are faced with the purchasing
agent's biggest fears: NND and LTB. Not for New Designs and Last Time Buy.
New parts will have to be found to replace the old ones being discontinued. So
someone with exceptional skills will have to maintain the product line.
When TAS got the first ever Lionel TMCC licensing agreement it was a constant
battle over intellectual property. With that said, I don't believe there will
be a startup who will invest the time and money to develop products. Maybe fee
free licensing would be an incentive.
I expect TMCC and DCS to continue for a long time.
I don't believe any of the DCC manufacturers will step into the role of
aftermarket boards; they're busy with DCC, which can be a viable alternative.
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hypothetical question:
it's 2027 and I have a high end Lionel TMCC engine that has died and a high
end MTH engine with DCS that doesn't run. Neither is something trivial like
broken wires.
How likely am I to get either one repaired? Assume the worst, that the
problems are internal electronics.
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I would venture that there would be a better chance of finding replacement TMCC
componants...maybe not exact replacements but workable generics.
Meanwhile...I'll just keep cleaning & lubing my postwar Lionel engines and
maybe replacing the brushes every 10 years or so. They will surely outlast me.
I do have quite a few Lionel TMCC engines that, if the electronics were to
die in them, they could be ripped out and replaced with e-units. My friend
Rich Riley proactively buys replacement boards for the engines he wants to keep
going and stashes them away for the future. I've taken that to heart and
gotten boards for a few favorites.
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So, here's the thing about antique electronics:
The world has changed. You can buy complete and incredibly powerful
system-on-a-chip modules for literally a few bucks (go to Amazon or eBay and
search for "ESP32"). These are complete, very fast computers including RAM,
flash, WiFi, Bluetooth, D/A converters, lots of IO pins, etc, etc. They run
little real-time kernels and Python language interpreters. They are programmed
exactly the same way as Arduinos, and all the cool kids know how to do that. We
are talking about a board about the size of your thumb that you can buy on eBay
from China for $5-10. Combine one with a few solid state relays and such and
you have everything you need to emulate anything you can find inside your MTH
engines.
The point is that the days of custom boards filled with big capacitors and
mechanical relays are over. Yes, there is a fair amount of programming
involved, but people with those skills are retiring from HP and Microsoft in
ever increasing numbers, and many of them are train weenies with time on their
hands. The above-described technology takes much of the NRE of custom-board
development out of the equation for these guys. I predict that there is about
to be a new golden age for those who like that kind of thing (which, BTW, I do
not).
"100% original" working engines will become rare, but the rest will keep
running just fine.
Some comments....
Lionel did provide the content of their serial data and many have programmed
Microchip PICs to decode that data and do some unique things with it. Lionel
never provided the code for their radio board (R2LC) and that is an integral
part of sourcing serial data.
MTH has never provided the content of their 900mHz system. It's going to take
some seriously adept coders with scopes and logic analyzers to make an
aftermarket device happen
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Yes, communications issues are a challenge. That is why I mentioned the ESP32
processor in particular. As I noted, this platform has both WiFi and Bluetooth
built right into the chip, and the open-source development environments support
them very well. Of course, the traditional train control systems all use
old-school ad-hoc RF protocols, so the new chips will be no help with that.
OTOH, it will be easy enough to use them to build new, standards-based
controllers, as well as bridges from the legacy controllers. I suspect there
will be a lot of people running their trains from phones and iPads.
Anyway, that is how it looks through my crystal ball. It will be fun to see
what evolves.
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ENJOY, HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND AND BE SAFE………………...PETER C