Larr, I agree with everything you say, The thing to remember if you post ALMS, Grand Am and NASCAR photos is to err on the safe side and say outright that they are not for sale to the public. I think it is alright to hustle yourself and your photos to teams and team members but not to the general public over the internet unless you have paid the sanctioning body the proper fees. [I don't think any of us really want to do that.] Those of us with web sites or blog sites should make it clear that any photos of these races are for viewing and not for sale. I need to go to Hot Wheels Paul and make that clear. But then nobody looks at it and I have never had any requests for photos of the NASCAR, ALMS, Grand Am. Does anybody know if NASA has the same rules? The only sales I have done of NASA photos have been to the racers themselves. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Knight<mailto:carpixguy@xxxxxxxxx> To: ratpack@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ratpack@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 9:45 AM Subject: [ratpack] Selling Pics Years ago, before I was "professional" (OK, that's a stretch), I was at Miller for one of the first events, and heard them make an announcement over the P/A about not being able to sell your pictures and they are only for personal use. I was thinking about putting together a calendar for sale, and didn't know much about this little problem of selling pics at a sanctioned event. So I called the ALMS people in Atlanta to ask about the rules and boy did I strike a nerve. They told me that they had a team of 8 people who do nothing but surf the web looking for people who are selling pics of any of "their" cars or anything with their logo on it (how do I get that job). If they found someone they would send them kind of a "Law suite in a packet" and not so politely ask for $5000 for you having violated their rules. If you declined they would then file suite in Atlanta, raise the $$ amount and you would then get to plan your next vacation to Atlanta to defend yourself in court. Not sure how much of that they actually do, but it certainly caused me to change my underwear not to mention my calendar plans!! So it is interesting if it was a Grand Am event photo, that they would get the track involved. Does the track have a responsibility to police photographers work for sanctioned events? Has Grand Am threatened the track? What about spectators, how can you possibly deal with that. It would be interesting to know how all the behind the scenes, upper level procedures really work with the different series. Grand Am has always been a little different. Anybody remember last year when J.C. France, a Grand Am driver and nephew of Bill France Jr./ Nascar Royal Family, got busted for possession of ccocaine and driving under the influence and then had his racing license taken away by Grand Am? Well they gave it back to him because the courts determined that the arresting officer didn't follow some procedure. Oh, he still uses cocaine, and was caught driving while under the influence of cocaine. But because you are a member of the Royal Family, we will reinstate your ability to drive a race care while still under the influence of cocaine because the cop used an "and" instead of an "or" in his little arresting speach. Legally this is an absolute and I don't disagree at all, but to reinstate your right to drive a race car, when in reality you are a cocaine user............. not so sure that is a great idea. I know, I know, Innocent until proven guilty and due process and stuff and I would want the same reinstatement were it me, but I doubt that the FIA would ever reinstate a driver found with cocaine and driving. And NO, I am not saying the FIA has their act together better than Nascar/Grand Am. OK my point being (whew, after all that there is actually a point) Maybe Grand Am and their "Feudal Lords and Peasants" view of the world is heavy handing Miller Motor Sports Park to correct a photog that stepped over the line. Just a thought (a very long thought) Has anyone ever been out to Jeremy Henry's site? (http://photogpimages.com/) <http://photogpimages.com/) > He has pictures of all the major sanctioned events. On his site there is a cart you can add pics to for purchase. On his ALMS stuff you can request a quote to buy, which I would bet he would come back and say can't sell you this (the quote function is probably built into the software, and shows up on all pics regardless). But would Grand Am be picky enough to say, you are offering pics for sale on your site and our pics are on your site and therefore..... you are in violation????? Don't know just some thoughts. Some where on my site I say e-mail me if you are interested in any pics. Then some of my galleries say not for sale and some say nothing, am I in violation. Sorry, I go on to long. Just wondering how all this works and why we all could have to suffer over a technicality or a vengeful sanctioning body. Larr