[no subject]
- From: "dirk@xxxxxxxxxx" <dirk@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 20:30:42 +0200 (CEST)
Hi Patrick,
thanks a lot for those detailed reports!
- DirkS
Patrick van Gompel <patrick_van_gompel@xxxxxxxxxxx> hat am 14. September 2011 um
19:46 geschrieben:
>
> I fixed the wheel today and did some more testing.
> With the fixed rocker arm and strings to the swing arms it works sweet. The
> simple setup of bolts and nuts as pivot points for the strings is working
> fine, although I probably need to adjust it a bit for better durability.
> I did a bunch of heavy brake runs. If the pavement is ok and I brake hard, the
> bike stays stable, but it is hard to stay in the seat. If you go a bit forward
> out of the seat the back of the bike will come loose. If I manage to stay put,
> the front wheel did slip sometimes. But this is at maximum braking and is
> quite a bit more than I can achieve on my mountainbike. The weak point of a
> leaning delta trike is when the front wheel is really blocked by the brake and
> it slips for a longer time. When going straight over a field of grass while
> slipping, makes the trike rather hard to handle (leaning and steering). When
> going over dirt/gravel and going into a corner while braking, the front wheel
> breaks out, which makes the rider fall into the corner. When this happens it
> seems unlikely to recover from it, although you can put your feet down to
> prevent falling to the ground. But, compared to a mountainbike when only
> applying the front brake, the performance is likely the same. So for slippery
> surfaces I do need rear brakes on my trike.
> I tested how the trike reacted when leaning to the front. The trike becomes
> unridable as soon as a shift in leaning to the right or left is needed. This
> might be because you don't have the grip of the seat anymore to control the
> leaning, but possibly the changed CoG has the most impact.
> I changed the steering pivot angle: going up in degrees makes the trike more
> relaxing to ride and going down makes it more aggressive. I think that the
> wheelflop had the most impact on this. 65-70 degrees seems like a sweet spot
> to me.
> I tested the use of the handlebar for leaning. It is only usefull for stopping
> and keeping the feet on the pedals. Steering the leaning when cycling didn't
> feel right and was even dangerous when really trying to.
>
> All in all I tested quite a few settings, but it's really hard to get an idea
> what does what. There are so many variables and while you adjust one, a few
> others might change too. So if I would make another trike, it would be hard to
> optimize the design without changing the feel of the ride.
> For example, I am still puzzled how the steering interacts with the leaning.
> It is a bit hard to see how the trike leans when riding on it, but with the
> handle bar for leaning I could feel which way and how much is was going.
> Steering and leaning seems to go together like a natural thing. Even when I
> tried to stay in the same position on my seat, the bike still seemed to lean
> with every corner. I can think about reasons to justify this, but honestly I
> have no clue.
>
> Anyway, I proved it is possible to crash the delta trike, but the feel and
> stability is really what I wished for when I started to think about a trike.
> Thanks again to Jürgen and Henry for sharing those great ideas!
> Now I need some durability tests and get a fully loaded trailer hooked...
>
> Happy cycling,
> Patrick
>
> From: patrick_van_gompel@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To: python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [python] Re: Pythonjetrike
> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 19:56:30 +0200
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hoi DirkS,
>
> A simple drawing:
>
> O frame attachement (pivot point rocker arm)
> / \ strings to rocker arm
> --------- rocker arm
> | | strings rocker arm to swing arms
> __ __ left and right swing arm
>
>
> When you lean, the rocker arm turns around the pivot point so the strings
> (between rocker arm and pivot point) will turn around that same point too (a
> bolt fixed to the frame). The strings to the swing arm will move. One goes up
> in the picture, the other goes down. Those strings will turn around bolts too.
> Since the rocker arm in this setup is attached with string to the frame, it
> will bounce against the frame when the rear is lifted. I didn't like that, so
> I changed the strings from pivot point to rocker arm back to rod ends again.
> As Henry describes on his website: it doesn't matter whether the rocker arm
> and strings are horizontal or vertical. You can turn it around the swing arms
> pivot point the way you like. See his picture:
> http://jetrike.com/geometry/geometry-side.gif ; But horizontal was the easiest
> setup for me.
> Well, I made a handlebar for leaning. There were too reasons for that: to be
> able to stop and leave my feet on the pedals and to use when something was
> pushing the bike the wrong way (trailer or chambered road). Although the
> handlebar works, it does feel kinda odd. But I must say I might have only
> driven 10km with the bike and used the handlebar just a few times. It does
> work to keep things level when you stop and you can keep your feet on the
> pedals. Though, since the bike is so low to the ground, putting both feet to
> the ground isn't a problem at all (and even easier than keeping them on the
> pedals). When cycling with a proper setup (the relation between the one wheel
> going up and the other down), I didn't feel the need to touch the handle bar
> since leaning was easy to control with shifting body weight. But I did like
> the other handle bar for steering, which could give the bike a very short
> turning radius and gives easier control over shifting body weight. It's easier
> to pull your body to the right or left with you hands then shifting weight by
> just using your body. That is the main reason I like an handlebar on my normal
> Python as well.
>
> Hope that explained,
> Patrick
>
>
> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 21:24:35 +0200
> From: dirk@xxxxxxxxxx
> To: python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject:
>
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> Hi Patrick,
>
>
>
>
> just to understand your routing completely: the rocker arm with its
>screws/bolts on either side does not see any relative rope movement, it is just
>the middle bolt(?) (on the central frame, not seen in the picture) where the
>strings moves around when leaning?
>
>
> I think whether the rocker arm is itself fixed or not and is either moving
>with the wires or merely guiding them along could be quite a difference in
>swing arm movement.
>
>
> You are right with the "falling" wheels, this could be a supension
>improvement, since the downward movement of the swing arm is completely
>disconnected from the rest of the bike.
>
> Initially, i had a complete different idea of swing arm + rope
>guidance(rocker arm) in mind. Your setup is quite a bit simpler since the
>strings run horizontally, unlike my concept!
> My thought was to have a leaver/handle somewhere that moves the strings
>around to control leaning, but you are doing it completely by shifting
>bodyweight. Is this working well?
>
> Greetings,
> DirkS
>
>
>
>
>
> Patrick van Gompel <patrick_van_gompel@xxxxxxxxxxx> hat am 11. September
>2011 um 18:39 geschrieben:
>
>
>
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> >
>
>
> > Hey DirkS,
>
>
> >
>
>
> > I did attach a picture, but maybe it didn't come through. Here's a link:
>http://cycle.free-creativity.com/images/strings.jpg
>
>
> > It was just a testsetup and I have changed it to a fixed rocker arm again
>now. I did went for another ride today with the strings between rocker arm and
>swing arms. The feel was as great as with rod ends, no difference there. But I
>had bad luck. I shifted back to the lowest gear, hit a bump or something and
>the chain went inbetween sprocket and spokes. It did snap a few of the outer
>spokes. I applied full front brake and I felt the back coming loose. I stopped
>and bounced back into the seat. I checked the strings, but all was fine. I am
>still amazed how fast you can brake. With a normal bike this might have gone
>wrong, but here I felt rather safe. When I have fixed the wheel again I think I
>will do some more serious brake tests. There seems to be a lot of reaction time
>before things go really wrong.
>
>
> > Now I think of it... with strings, both wheels can go down which might be
>an advantage or disadvantage in certain situations.
>
>
> >
>
>
> > Btw, thanks for the fallback idea. I already had two strings, but
>something like an extra safety line attached to a different point would be
>good.
>
>
> >
>
>
> > Greetings,
>
>
> > Patrick
>
>
> >
>
>
> > Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 13:37:47 +0200
>
>
> > From: dirk@xxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> > To: python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> > Subject: [python] Re: Why a Tadpole?
>
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> > Hi Patrick,
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> > that was quick!
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> > You should use two strings in parallel, one as a fallback. Pulley with
>bearing is important, otherwise i guess fun is very limited...
>
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> >
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> >
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> > you could have a simple leaver in the corner with two holes and split
>the strings into sections so there are only straight part in all strings. You
>would loose precision thought, especially with bigger ranges of movement.
>
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> >
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> > I think it is also a very lightweight solution. Could you provide us
>with a picture how you implemented it so far?
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> > Greetings,
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> > DirkS
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> > Patrick van Gompel <patrick_van_gompel@xxxxxxxxxxx> hat am 9.
>September 2011 um 21:04 geschrieben:
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> > > Hello DirkS,
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> > > I tried your string theory today, as my new rod ends have not
>arrived yet. It does work and seems stable, although I haven't tried it on the
>road. I did bounce a bit up and down on the seat and made a short ride. It
>seems to hold and is stiff enough. Though, I am not sure about durability,
>since the strings do turn all the time around a bolt. A pulley/ball bearing
>would be the proper thing, but for this load they are big.
>
>
> >
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> >
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> > > The sound the string made -when touched like a gitar- is a bit scary
>though. ;-) PING!!!
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> > > Thanks for the idea, it is so much cheaper than 4 or 6 rod ends. I
>am considering to keep them... Not sure whether I like a floating rocker arm,
>but for the rocker arm - swing arm connection they might be a good solution.
>
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> > > Patrick
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> > > Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 08:52:50 +0200
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> > > From: dirk@xxxxxxxxxx
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> > > To: python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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> > > Subject: [python] Re: Why a Tadpole?
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> > > Hi Vi,
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> > > nice Video, especially the last second! A raised position without
>enough lean steer and the bike falls over...
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> > > the kettwiesel seems to work as a delta because the riders sits
>way back with his cog near the axle/two wheels - and since this axle is
>favoured through wheight distribution, it is the driven one.
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> > > I case of a python setup a driven front seems more attraktive
>from this point of view, so a tadpole setup seems to be the right choice.
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> > > My complicated lean steer idea was to have a central drive train
>(typical python) that is distributed to either side with a rigid cross
>beam(including differential) and then instead of mounting the two driven wheel
>directly to this cross beam, have them connected like a suspended rear wheel on
>a backward pointing leaver. In order to allow lean steer, the two leavers would
>be attached to a downwardpointing string on the other end, that runs U-shaped
>across to the other wheel. If you pull that string left/right you can adjust
>the leaning. In order to stay U-shaped, that strin obviously needs to be guided
>by another cross beam.
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> > > The rest of the original python design could be kept as it is.
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> > > This is somewhat the solution of henrys delta the other way round
>to make it a delta and keep stearing and leaning independend. Instead of rigid
>guiding rods, i came up with the string idea when i realised that a)
>paraglider-strings a very tought, take enormous loads per cross section and are
>stiff and b) you could have a suspension/damping unit between either side to
>combine lean steer and suspension into one - all within a light setup.
>
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> > > I did not have the chance to try this out yet.
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> > > greetings,
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> > > DirkS
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> > > Vi Vuong <vi_vuong@xxxxxxxxx> hat am 8. September 2011 um 03:25
>geschrieben:
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> > > > Sorry, forgot the link
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> > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9qt_XZDtcM
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> > > > >________________________________
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> > > > >From: Vi Vuong <vi_vuong@xxxxxxxxx>
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> > > > >To: "python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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> > > > >Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 6:13 PM
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> > > > >Subject: [python] Re: Why a Tadpole?
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> > > > >DW-TV clip on Hasebikes (in English)
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> > > > >>________________________________
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> > > > >>From: Patrick van Gompel <patrick_van_gompel@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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> > > > >>To: python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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> > > > >>Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 10:49 AM
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> > > > >>Subject: [python] Re: Why a Tadpole?
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> > > > >>Hasebikes uses a differential for their Kettwiesel. It seems
>to be a limited slip differential, excellent for off-road. I was unable to find
>a link, but saw this mentioned on a forum:
>
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> > > > >>"Haase is using the Gommier Tricycle differential unit with
>an O-ring
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> > > > inside to preload the spider gears. You can order them from
>Gommier in
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> > > > Taiwan they come with axle tubes, bearings, diff, hubs, axles,
>and disk
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> > > > brake mounts for about $100.00 US. Several of our industrial
>trikes at
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> > > > work use the differentials. Call Lawrence at Gommeir and ask
>him he has
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> > > > all the details about the differentials."
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> > > > >>Not sure, but it might be this one:
>http://www.arixworld.com.tw/en/products/?method=detail&aid=34
>
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> > > > >>100$ seems very cheap. Last time I checked for differentials,
>they were like 500.
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> > > > >>Freewheels might be easier/cheaper, but for tight turns it
>can be a nightmare since the inner wheel is driven but hardly moving.
>
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> > > > >>I might be wrong, but I think that Vi means that two front
>wheels can be put closer to the CoG because it is not limited by ones leg size.
>On my Python I can't move my front wheel closer to the CoG because then my
>balls will have serious problems ;-)
>
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> > > > >>I don't have the problem that my bike tilts forward when
>braking, but I can make the front wheel slip when pushing hard on the pedals.
>
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> > > > >>Good luck with your project Vi, I am curious about your
>design. Please let us know.
>
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> > > > >>I was just thinking... with two front wheels there's no more
>wheel flop! But does that mean that now the rear part
>
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> > > > has to flop? That would be inward of the corner for most of
>your body weight! That's very good, right?
>
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> > > > >>________________________________
>
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>
> > > > >>Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 22:25:02 +0200
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> > > > >>From: bepb@xxxxxx
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> > > > >>To: python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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> > > > >>Subject: [python] Re: Why a Tadpole?
>
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> > > > >> Hi Vi,
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> > > > >>I don't think that the tadpole will allow to put the front
>wheels
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> > > > closer to the CoG. I think the limit is more or less the
>same as
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> > > > with the delta. If the CoG is to close to the front
>wheel(s), using
>
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> > > > the front break can result in forward tilt, you might even
>hit the
>
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> > > > ground with the chain wheel. Going downhill will make
>things worse.
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> > > > >>By the way, while a differential is the common solution for
>cars, I
>
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> > > > think maybe a freewheel on both wheels might serve better
>and may be
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> > > > easier to come by.
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> > > > >>In fact, a differential without additional precautions, works
>to
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> > > > have equal torsional forces on both wheels. If one wheel
>slips it
>
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> > > > will take away the power from the other wheel. You get
>stuck if
>
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> > > > either of the two wheels slips. This is why a serious
>off-road car
>
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> > > > has differential locks.
>
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> > > > >>You are certainly right about the fairing for the delta rear
>wheels.
>
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> > > > I guess either you have an enormous tail fairing or the
>wheels have
>
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> > > > to go with out fairings. Or maybe with separate fairings.
>
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> > > > >>Gerald
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>
> > > > >>On 4.9.11 21:58 , Vi Vuong wrote:
>
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> > > > >>>Hi All,
>
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> > > > >>>
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> > > > >>>
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> > > > >>>Yes, let us limit ourselves to FWD and pivot turning
>mechanism, and leave RWD aside on its own. Tadpole front wheels can be covered
>by the front shell piece / fairing, while delta rear wheels cannot be covered
>by the sharp tail of a streamlined shell. With a differential, in case one
>tadpole wheel slips, the other wheel can keep going. Plus tadpole wheels can
>be placed closer to COG for more traction than delta wheel, especially with
>bigger wheels / shorter riders. I am wondering if term "reverse trike" should
>be clarified as FWD tadpole is like a reversed FWD delta, and vice versa with
>RWD tadpole and FWD delta...
>
>
> >
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> > > > >>>
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> > > > >>>Yes, steering/braking is complicated with load/speed
>involved,
>
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> > > > and may be just as difficult to build as FWD
>differential.
>
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> > > > Regarding control, I am hopping that steering 2 wheels
>with my
>
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> > > > feet would be easier than 1 delta wheel. Theoretically
>more may
>
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> > > > be better, but practically less may be more?
>
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> > > > >>>
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> > > > >>>Thanks for the design primer pdf.
>
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> >
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> > > > >>>
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> > > > >>>Vi
>
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> > > > >>>
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> > > > >>>
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> > > > >>>
>
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> > > > >>>>________________________________
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> > > > >>>>From: Patrick van Gompel <patrick_van_gompel@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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> > > > >>>>To: python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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> > > > >>>>Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2011 11:33 AM
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> > > > >>>>Subject: [python] Re: Why a Tadpole?
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> > > > >>>>
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> > > > >>>>
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> > > > >>>>
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> > > > >>>>Interesting discussion.
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> > > > >>>>Probably you guys know, but I found this document
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> > > > very usefull for trike setup comparisons,
>steering
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> > > > angles and other stuff:
>http://www.hellbentcycles.com/trike_projects/Recumbent%20Trike%20Design%20Primer.pdf
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> > > > >>>>
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> > > > >>>>I was wondering this statement too: "With 2 front
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> > > > wheels driving/steering/braking, we should
>get more
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> > > > traction/control/stopping power."
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> > > > >>>>-Not sure why 2 front wheels give better control. If
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> > > > you have all the right angles for both
>wheels it
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> > > > might, but if you have not, it probably
>makes things
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> > > > worse.
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> > > > >>>>-Nowadays any decent brake has more than enough
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> > > > power to stop the wheel. So having two
>front brakes
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> > > > instead of one wouldn't make much
>difference. What
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> > > > does matter is where you CoG is positioned.
>Usually
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> > > > it is easier to flip over the two front
>wheels of a
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> > > > tadpole than over the one more foward
>placed front
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> > > > wheel of a delta. And, having one front
>brake is
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> > > > less complicated than having two. A lot of
>tadpoles
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> > > > seem to suffer from 'brake turning' (or
>what is the
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> > > > proper word?).
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> > > > >>>>
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> > > > >>>>Gerald, there is another thing to consider (your
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> > > > last point). Although your legs bent to the
>inside
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> > > > of the bent, your front wheel contact point
>goes to
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> > > > the inside as well. So your CoG might
>actually move
>
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> > > > to the outside of the bent. Of course that
>depends
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > on the construction of your bike and the
>rider.
>
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> > > > >>>>
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> > > > >>>>Patrick
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> > > > >>>>
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> > > > >>>>
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> > > > >>>>
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> > > > >>>>________________________________
>
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> > > > >>>>From: bepb@xxxxxx
>
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > >>>>To: python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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> >
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> >
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> > >
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> > > > >>>>Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 19:48:40 +0200
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> > > > >>>>Subject: [python] AW: Re: Why a Tadpole?
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> > > > >>>>
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> > > > >>>>
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> > > > >>>>Hi Vi,
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> > > > >>>>there is a strong point in the curiosity, no
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> > > > question. Its been the reason I have
>been
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> > > > thinking about a tadpole python myself.
>
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> > > > >>>>
>
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> > > > >>>>The shell for the delta somehow need to adapt to
>
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> > > > the bending off the trike, but in which
>way
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> > > > could a tadpole python solve this
>issue?
>
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> >
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> > > > >>>>
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> > > > >>>>Concerning driving I dont see where the FWD
>
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> > > > tadpole has an inherent advantage. The
>
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> > > > additional contact area will be
>nullified by the
>
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> > > > less load per area for breaking and
>driving.
>
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > >>>>
>
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> > > > >>>>
>
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> > > > >>>>I like the considerations about the placement
>
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> > > > off the solar pannel. In my case, I
>should place
>
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> > > > the panel on the back. I generaly drive
>in
>
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> > > > westery directions in the morning and
>easterly
>
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> > >
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> > >
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> > > > coming home from work in the evening.
>
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> > >
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> > >
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> > > > >>>>
>
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> > > > >>>>There are some sources comparing tadpole vs
>
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> > > > delta on the net, but they seem to have
>in
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> > > > common that they focus on LWB deltas vs
>SWB
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> > > > tadpoles.
>
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> > > > >>>>But there are some huge differences between a
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> > > > python delta and a LWB delta.
>
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> > > > >>>>*On python trikes, the load is significant more
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> > > > on the front wheel. You need this to
>avoid wheel
>
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> >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
>
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> >
>
>
> > > > slip.
>
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> >
>
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>*I dont think that there is need to have the CoG
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > (Center of Gravity) any higher than
>with a
>
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> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
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> > >
>
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> >
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> >
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>
> > > > tadpole.
>
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> >
>
>
> >
>
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> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
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> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>*On the python trike, the frontwheel actually
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > tilts because off the pivot angle
>0~50*.
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>*Since the steering involves moving the legs to
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
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> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > the inside off the bent, weight
>distribution
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > should improve, certainly over the LWB
>delta,
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > most propbly also over the tadpole.
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>Maybe we need a python trike based comparison?
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>Gerald
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
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> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
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> > >
>
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> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>
>
> >
>
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> >
>
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> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
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> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
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> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>Von: Vi Vuong <vi_vuong@xxxxxxxxx>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
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> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>An: "python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
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> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>Gesendet: So., 04. Sep 2011, 06:13:58 GMT+00:00
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
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> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>Betreff: [python] Re: Why a Tadpole?
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
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> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
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> > >
>
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> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
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> >
>
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> > >
>
>
> >
>
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> >
>
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> > >
>
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> >
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> >
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>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
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> >
>
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> > >
>
>
> >
>
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> >
>
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> > >
>
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> >
>
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> >
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>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
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> >
>
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> > >
>
>
> >
>
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> >
>
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> > >
>
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> >
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> >
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>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
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> >
>
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> > >
>
>
> >
>
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> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>Hi Gerald,
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
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> > >
>
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> >
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> >
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> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>With 2 front wheels driving/steering/braking, we should
>get more traction/control/stopping power. Tadpole also fits nicely in a
>standard streamlined shell, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jETRur5Bf58, but it
>should be possible to achieve similar level of aerodynamics with advanced shell
>design for a delta...
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>According to Lightfootcycles, the name tadpole came from
>the "wiggling" caused by leg movements, similar to python PSI? They also have
>a long pros/cons list, but seem to favor delta trikes (that they make)
>http://www.lightfootcycles.com/trikecomp.php ; Henry (Jetrike) discussed in
>depth on braking & turning, and favored the tadpole for larger tilting range,
>http://jetrike.com/tadpole-or-delta.html.
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
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>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
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>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>Cargo / weight distribution is another good deciding
>factor for a delta or tadpole. If the load is a large flat solar panel in my
>case, it seems that placing it up front would give better weight distribution
>for a FWD. Plus having the electric motor in the rear tadpole wheel may be
>simpler than in front delta wheel.
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>Last, the curiosity factor of building a tadpole is huge
>:) with possibilities of sharing frame/module with a exiting bike or delta
>trike. Yep, the Guinea Pig needs one more module to go from bike to
>delta/tadpole/quad, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cy50C1Lhjw
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
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> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
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>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>Cheers,
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>Vi
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>>________________________________
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>>From: Gerald <bepb@xxxxxx>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>>To: python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>>Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 11:27 AM
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>>Subject: [python] Why a Tadpole?
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>>Hi All,
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>>It is not that I
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > like to
>discourage
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > >
> creativity -
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > inspired
>by your
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > ideaes, I
>have
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > been
>thinking
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > about a
>tadpole
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > python
>design
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > myself.
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>>But actually what
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > specific
>advantage
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > one like
>to gain
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > from the
>tadpole
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > python
>design?
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > Just to
>have
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > something
>to aim
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > for.
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > > >>>>>>Gerald
>
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> > > http://dirk.steuwer.de
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> > http://dirk.steuwer.de
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> >
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> http://dirk.steuwer.de
>
>
http://dirk.steuwer.de
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