[projectaon] Re: Outstanding Errata Sprint (Week 6)
- From: John TFS <johntfs@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <projectaon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 02:35:45 +0000
> Basically, if you get someone who has never played a LW book before they
> should be able to read the instructions given in that one section (or
> refer back to the rules section or a Newsletter for clarification) and
> know exactly what to do. If there is any room for confusion there should
> be a footnote/clarification.
>
Well, that's probably not going to happen. There's always room for some level
of ambiguity. There is no possible way to use footnotes to account for every
conceivable interpretation of Joe Dever's language. Since these are Project
Aon books, we have the Project Aon forum. The best the footnotes can do is
deal with the more common ambiguities.
> Anyway, Ive digressed (again). The issue I was originally trying to
> address is:
> I don’t see why adding x “to the the number picked” precludes also
> cumulatively adding other X’s to the number picked as well!
>
> And the short answer is that there is no rule that states bonuses should
> stack by default, in fact the rules explicitly tell you how to deal with
> the bonuses from WS/WM and mindblast/psi-surge when used simultaneously.
> Theres no reason to assume that other bonuses stack by default. Its not
> that cumulatively adding the bonuses to the number picked is wrong, its
> just that its not covered in the rules and so you have to take the
> section's instructions at face value. Face value says you add the bonus
> to the number picked, not to the total. It does NOT say "you may also
> the second bonus to the number picked". If the section isnt specifically
> saying you should add them together, why would you add them together?
>
Because it strikes me as absurd that Dever would create a bonus that caters
exclusively to those players who refuse to master the Bow at Mentora level and
beyond.
> On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 12:40 +0000, John TFS wrote:
> > Then, as if from nowhere, a raging whirlwind arises in mid-air, at the
> > centre of where the arch stood. This whirling vortex quickly builds in
> > power until it is sucking everything into its spinning black core.
> > Screaming acolytes tumble past and disappear into its maw as you
> > desperately hang on to the dais to stop yourself from being sucked to
> > your doom.
> >
> > Pick a number from the Random Number Table.
> >
> > If your current ENDURANCE points score is 14 or higher, add 2 to the
> > number you picked.
> >
> > If your current ENDURANCE points score is 13 or lower, deduct 1 from
> > the number you picked.
> >
> > If you possess Kai-alchemy, and have attained the Kai rank of Sun
> > Knight, add 5 to the number you picked.
> >
> > If your total score is now 4 or less, turn to 313.
> >
> > If it is 5 or more, turn to 350.
> >
> > It's not in a newsletter, but there's Joe Dever indicating cumulative
> > addition/subtraction. In this passage, you first pick a number. If
> > you're EP is 13 or less, you subtract 1 from that number. Should you
> > happen to have Kai-alchemy, you add 5 to that number. This means that
> > you can die if your EP is 13 or less if you pick a 0 even if you have
> > Kai-alchemy. Dever is clearly not expecting you to apply only one
> > modifier here, he's expecting you to apply all applicable modifiers.
> >
> > Ultimately, this whole discussion is irrelevant to me because I don't
> > both to apply any hidden bonuses during the GM books. Instead, I
> > apply +10 to my CS, -1 to my EP and go from there. I also add the
> > full bonus of +5 from Grand Weaponmastery. I'm a wild man. Sue me.
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 23:24:22 +1200
> > Subject: [projectaon] Re: Outstanding Errata Sprint (Week 6)
> > From: crusty.chris@xxxxxxxxx
> > To: projectaon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > basically if person A tells you to pick a number (any number), and
> > person B tells you to "add 2 to the number picked" and person C tells
> > you to "add 3 to the number picked" then logically you'd have 2
> > numbers (x+2 and x+3). you cannot combine the two instructions (into x
> > +5) because they specifically say to add to the number picked.
> >
> >
> > If person A tells you to pick another number and person B tells you to
> > "add 2 to the total" and person C tells you to "add 3 to the total"
> > then you have one number, the total (y+5)
> >
> >
> > the two phrases are telling you to do completely different things.
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:23 PM, David Davis <feline1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> > I don’t see why adding x “to the the number picked” precludes
> > also cumulatively adding other X’s to the number picked as
> > well!
> >
> > cf: there’s loads of bonuses accumulate on your CS and EP all
> > the time from multiple disciplines and items.
> >
> >
> >
> > where does it say that?
> >
> >
> > WS/WM tells you to "add 3 points" to CS when you have a weapon youve
> > mastered
> > mindblast/psi-surge tells you to add "4 EXTRA points" to CS and
> > specifically states it stacks with WM
> > lore circles tell you to add "extra bonus points"
> > the sommerswerd tells you to use +10 if you have WS and that it doesnt
> > stack with WS
> >
> >
> > all these counter your point/support mine. I cant find any cases that
> > back your statement up - not that Ive looked too hard mind you.
> >
> >
> > Im sure there was a note somewhere that said you gained CS each
> > Grandmaster level you gained but i cant find that.
> >
> >
> > Interestingly Kai-Surge doesnt say it can be used with GWM, and doesnt
> > say "extra points" either :/
> > yah for reading the rules too closely again :) Im going to go out on a
> > limb here and say that this exception should probably be worded like
> > mindblast/psi-surge though (and be used with GWM).
> >
> >
> > (all quotes based off the online versions)
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Timothy Pederick
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 8:14 AM
> > To: projectaon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [projectaon] Re: Outstanding Errata Sprint (Week 6)
> >
> >
> > On 28 June 2011 05:42, Chris Neilson <crusty.chris@xxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Not saying I dont agree with you re the bonus
> > stacking, but my original
> > point was that this was a forth option that had not
> > been considered in
> > Tim's list. It all depends on whether or not its an
> > argument that has
> > been "seriously proposed". The point was that nearly
> > everyone ASSUMED
> > the bonus was cumulative - the rules dont specifically
> > state that it is.
> >
> > I think the fact that "nearly everyone" reads the rules a
> > certain way is in fact a very good argument for Project Aon to
> > interpret them that way. :-) Consensus is good. So is not
> > surprising the readers and provoking them to email us with
> > questions or complaints!
> >
> >
> > Compare this to the Silver Bow of Duadon. It is stated
> > to "add 3 points
> > to your TOTAL whenever you are using a Bow" (06tkot
> > sect252) - "total"
> > implies cumulative bonus, although the Mentora
> > Improved Discipline says
> > "add 2 to the NUMBER PICKED" (the "Bows and Arrows"
> > Equipment section
> > says something similar ie "add 3 to any number that
> > you choose") - which
> > definitely implies not cumulative.
> >
> > I think you're reading too much intent into Dever's wording. I
> > don't think he was being deliberate in choosing "to your
> > total" vs. "to the number picked".
> >
> >
> > On 28 June 2011 09:11, Benjamin I Krefetz
> > <krefetz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Maybe someone who feels like grepping the xml files
> > can check to confirm, but I believe the only time LW
> > throws a Dagger in the Magnakai series is when he
> > throws the Dagger of Vashna at Zakhan Kimah, and in
> > that case the reader is specifically instructed to add
> > 3.
> >
> > I come up with just two (using a hastily composed grep -i
> > "random.*weaponmastery.*dagger"), both in 09tcof. There's the
> > one against Kimah, of course (section 239), but also section
> > 215 where you throw a dagger at a guard to shut him up. There,
> > you get a +4 bonus.
> >
> >
> > Kind of makes you wonder what the Mentora bonus (available no
> > sooner than 10tdot) is actually for, especially if it doesn't
> > stack with WM-with-Bow...
> >
> > (Do note that this is only finding cases where you get a bonus
> > to a random pick for having [Grand] Weaponmastery. Searching
> > for every instance of random picks involving daggers is
> > significantly harder...)
> >
> > --
> > Tim Pederick
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~
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