[project1dev] Re: scenario ideas

  • From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 11:44:13 -0400

theres definitely a dynamic in wanting to give players a ton of information
so that can be informed but also balancing it in such a way that they can be
successful playing w/out really worrying about it

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 12:02 AM, Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:

> Stats are fun, but you need to be educated about them properly first.
> It's not that games punish you for using things you can't take back,
> but the games don't give you enough information about what each stat
> does.  We should just try to make it very clear what our stats will do
> if we offer them to the player on creation or level up.
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > That's pretty cool. I never considered playing through the game that way
> but
> > it sounds like quite the treat. I bet the last level is intense.
> >
> > I like that esperless idea so much that I'm tempted to replay the game
> and
> > test the water.
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 2:45 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>
> >> Ok... Check this out...
> >>
> >> Because espers teach magic and alter stats, it basically makes every
> >> character the same - everyone can have all magic spells and everyone can
> be
> >> a great warrior, special skills aren't that important because everyone
> >> canhave strong regular attack or magic so the skills are extraneous...
> >>
> >> I really feel like not using espers brings out the true flavor of the
> game
> >> because instead of having teams of super characters, you have characters
> >> with unique flaws and strengths you have to rely on. For example, in
> normal
> >> play strago was basically useless to me because I had other sources of
> magic
> >> that were better... In a no esper game, he almost immediately became my
> go
> >> to attack mage. Likewise, gau's special ability made him my main attack
> >> character because of his versatility. Also, terra and celes as the only
> >> characters that naturally learned magic became important because their
> magic
> >> was precious. Meanwhile, my fav characters (shadow, sabin, cyan) will
> >> relegated to 2nd or 3rd tier because without stat boosts from espers,
> they
> >> weren't that great. Also, haha... Genji glove became worthless because
> cyan
> >> would always use sword tech and sabin would always use blitz because
> they
> >> did far more damage than a standard attack and the defense a shield
> provided
> >> was more valuable. I don't think I even equiped the offering for the
> final
> >> boss.
> >>
> >> Because I had to work with the individual characters strengths and
> >> weaknesses rather than plowing through the game with super characters, I
> >> learned a lot of neat tricks and techniques that kept me alive and I
> also
> >> learned the value of things I had previously thought was worthless. For
> >> instance, relm was the only character I had who could solo dinosaur
> forest
> >> because sketch was so potent against trex. I really enjoyed having to
> use
> >> intelligence and cunning rather than brute force to get through the
> game...
> >> I also thought it was interesting that characters I ignored in normal
> play
> >> became the most important characters in a no-esper game due to the
> unique
> >> skills they brought to the table.
> >>
> >> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Kent Petersen
> >> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:06:07 -0700
> >> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Subject: [project1dev] Re: scenario ideas
> >> Not use them at all? No, sounds kinda tough
> >>
> >> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 2:02 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hey kent, did you ever play ff6 without espers?
> >>>
> >>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: Kent Petersen
> >>> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:32:35 -0700
> >>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: scenario ideas
> >>> Wouldn't that still focus on stats and power building or am I missing
> >>> something?
> >>>
> >>> Because, 2 warriors one strong with minimal sword skills and the other
> >>> weak with great sword skills, still just have strength and sword skills
> >>> stats, right?
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 1:26 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> in sports games, stats like strength, speed, stamina all affect
> gameplay
> >>>> but just having 99 in those three doesn't make you a good player,
> >>>> athleticism =/= skill.  likewise a wizard could be super intelligence
> but
> >>>> its like having potential, if you dont USE the potential, its
> worthless...
> >>>> maybe thats where the balance could come from as far as stats and
> >>>> balancing... just being strong doesn't make you a great warrior, but
> >>>> strength could be a crutch for an unskilled player and being weak
> would be
> >>>> compensated by skill in a savvy player... just thinking outloud
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thats a good point eric.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What about this....if this helps the situation...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lets say you solve a problem that has multiple solutions by using
> >>>>> magic.  Maybe in doing so, you find a "seed of wisdom" which
> increases your
> >>>>> wisdom stat? :P
> >>>>>
> >>>>> shrug, maybe im just mudying the waters though hehe (if so, sorry!)
> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 12:59 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> argh i am so torn because i totally think its awesome to have stats
> >>>>>> hidden and you kinda play to your own strengths and find what works
> for YOU
> >>>>>> and YOUR CHARACTER... like that seesms really neat... but on the
> other hand,
> >>>>>> i know people love stats and i obsess about them too...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> maybe not having stats would let people focus on having fun and
> having
> >>>>>> a well rounded in depth character instead of just min/maxing and
> focusing
> >>>>>> only on the most deadly skills...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> like, diablo 2 is a good game (i havent played in years!!!) but
> >>>>>> basically people found the only worthwhile skills and maxed them out
> and the
> >>>>>> game was balanced for having the best skills maxed out so hybrids or
> mutants
> >>>>>> with quirky unique focuses became obsolete.  this happened in
> gemstone
> >>>>>> too...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> i really think a lot of effort should be made on our part to balance
> >>>>>> the game so that its fun without having the numerically perfect
> character...
> >>>>>> we want people to make mistakes and enjoy the flaws their characters
> have by
> >>>>>> compensating in intelligent and clever ways...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> One gripe I have with games that let you pick your stats is that
> you
> >>>>>>> never really know what your getting yourself into. There have been
> plenty of
> >>>>>>> games I picked a "perfect" character and spent tons of time
> allocating
> >>>>>>> points just to realize that the game didn't really play out as I
> had in mind
> >>>>>>> or that stat I pumped was pretty useless.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Do you think showing the stats to the player is even necessary?
> Does
> >>>>>>> it really make a difference to know your strength is 1 or 10 as
> opposed to
> >>>>>>> weak and strong?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Throughout the course of the game you can have scenarios that
> modify
> >>>>>>> your stats. If stats are adjustable throughout the game it's not as
> >>>>>>> important to have that perfect set up at the beginning of the game.
> There
> >>>>>>> could be mini games you could play to modify your stats. For
> example, there
> >>>>>>> could be a game of chess. If you beat the computer in the game of
> chess not
> >>>>>>> only do you move on to a harder opponent but you gain an
> intelligence. If
> >>>>>>> you spend too much time playing chess your strength might go down
> from a
> >>>>>>> lack of activity. To increase your strength back up you may need to
> do
> >>>>>>> something more strenuous. I think if there are a lot of ways to
> lose and
> >>>>>>> gain stats there will be less need to have it perfect and less
> reason to
> >>>>>>> prompt restarting.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Any thoughts?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx
> >
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> It will be perfect timing since josh's storage system is going in
> >>>>>>>> before the next milestone.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> We'll be able to store the decisions the player made so that later
> >>>>>>>> on we can query the system to see what choices they made (:
> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:33 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> probably a hybrid of both... i forget if it was just me and alan
> >>>>>>>>> discussing this or if it was a public conversation but here was
> my thought
> >>>>>>>>> on it...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ok so there will be a few mini scenarios that seem existential
> and
> >>>>>>>>> unrelated in nature that basically test the player's personality,
> are they
> >>>>>>>>> greedy?  helpful? do they follow directions? do they think their
> way through
> >>>>>>>>> problems or fight their way through?  etc.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> there will be a few scenarios (i think this depends on how cool
> the
> >>>>>>>>> first couple of ones turn out or if we decide this is 100% the
> way to do
> >>>>>>>>> it... in my mind there is up to 10 or so.... but maybe less,
> depends on a
> >>>>>>>>> lot of factors) for the sake of example lets say there are 6.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> the player will play through 3 of the 6 in random order,  the way
> >>>>>>>>> they work is that the player takes possession of a character in
> the scenario
> >>>>>>>>> and will have to complete it... some examples might be a prisoner
> locked up
> >>>>>>>>> and you have to escape, or a princess who has to decide which
> prince to
> >>>>>>>>> marry, or a warlord who has to decide whether to burn a city he
> has
> >>>>>>>>> conquered, etc. the player's actions in the scenarios will go
> into figuring
> >>>>>>>>> out the perks and basic stats, as well as possibly gaining a
> sidekick in the
> >>>>>>>>> scenario, or special perks, or the potential to use magic...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> furthermore, the player THINKS these are unrelated scenarios with
> >>>>>>>>> no bearing on the game... not so, their decisions in the
> scenarios actually
> >>>>>>>>> affect the story of the game... maybe later on you run into the
> escaped
> >>>>>>>>> prisoner, or you stumble upon a burnt down town, or you meet a
> queen who is
> >>>>>>>>> married to a vile tyrant - all things that the player unknowingly
> affected.
> >>>>>>>>> i think this would be really neat :) plus it adds
> replayability... i think
> >>>>>>>>> by having these types of things w/ the customized character and
> various
> >>>>>>>>> methods of getting through levels, etc... it gives each person
> their own
> >>>>>>>>> experience in the game and invites them to play the game over
> again using
> >>>>>>>>> different styles and methods...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> plus the scenarios will be fun and let us explore some diverse
> >>>>>>>>> situations/environments/characters
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Kent Petersen <
> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Are we going with playing the character creation process or
> >>>>>>>>>> traditionally selecting stats n stuff from a list?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 8:57 AM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> im writing up documents related to the mini-scenarios that will
> >>>>>>>>>>> make up the intro/tutorial/character creation stuff... if
> anyone has any
> >>>>>>>>>>> ideas for these, let me know... if you're not sure how they
> work yet, i'll
> >>>>>>>>>>> post the first one soon so you get the gist of how it will work
> (assumign we
> >>>>>>>>>>> roll w/ this method)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

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