[project1dev] Re: scenario ideas

  • From: Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 21:02:41 -0700

Stats are fun, but you need to be educated about them properly first.
It's not that games punish you for using things you can't take back,
but the games don't give you enough information about what each stat
does.  We should just try to make it very clear what our stats will do
if we offer them to the player on creation or level up.

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> That's pretty cool. I never considered playing through the game that way but
> it sounds like quite the treat. I bet the last level is intense.
> I like that esperless idea so much that I'm tempted to replay the game and
> test the water.
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 2:45 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Ok... Check this out...
>> Because espers teach magic and alter stats, it basically makes every
>> character the same - everyone can have all magic spells and everyone can be
>> a great warrior, special skills aren't that important because everyone
>> canhave strong regular attack or magic so the skills are extraneous...
>> I really feel like not using espers brings out the true flavor of the game
>> because instead of having teams of super characters, you have characters
>> with unique flaws and strengths you have to rely on. For example, in normal
>> play strago was basically useless to me because I had other sources of magic
>> that were better... In a no esper game, he almost immediately became my go
>> to attack mage. Likewise, gau's special ability made him my main attack
>> character because of his versatility. Also, terra and celes as the only
>> characters that naturally learned magic became important because their magic
>> was precious. Meanwhile, my fav characters (shadow, sabin, cyan) will
>> relegated to 2nd or 3rd tier because without stat boosts from espers, they
>> weren't that great. Also, haha... Genji glove became worthless because cyan
>> would always use sword tech and sabin would always use blitz because they
>> did far more damage than a standard attack and the defense a shield provided
>> was more valuable. I don't think I even equiped the offering for the final
>> boss.
>> Because I had to work with the individual characters strengths and
>> weaknesses rather than plowing through the game with super characters, I
>> learned a lot of neat tricks and techniques that kept me alive and I also
>> learned the value of things I had previously thought was worthless. For
>> instance, relm was the only character I had who could solo dinosaur forest
>> because sketch was so potent against trex. I really enjoyed having to use
>> intelligence and cunning rather than brute force to get through the game...
>> I also thought it was interesting that characters I ignored in normal play
>> became the most important characters in a no-esper game due to the unique
>> skills they brought to the table.
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>> ________________________________
>> From: Kent Petersen
>> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:06:07 -0700
>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: scenario ideas
>> Not use them at all? No, sounds kinda tough
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 2:02 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> Hey kent, did you ever play ff6 without espers?
>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Kent Petersen
>>> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:32:35 -0700
>>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: scenario ideas
>>> Wouldn't that still focus on stats and power building or am I missing
>>> something?
>>> Because, 2 warriors one strong with minimal sword skills and the other
>>> weak with great sword skills, still just have strength and sword skills
>>> stats, right?
>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 1:26 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> in sports games, stats like strength, speed, stamina all affect gameplay
>>>> but just having 99 in those three doesn't make you a good player,
>>>> athleticism =/= skill.  likewise a wizard could be super intelligence but
>>>> its like having potential, if you dont USE the potential, its worthless...
>>>> maybe thats where the balance could come from as far as stats and
>>>> balancing... just being strong doesn't make you a great warrior, but
>>>> strength could be a crutch for an unskilled player and being weak would be
>>>> compensated by skill in a savvy player... just thinking outloud
>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Thats a good point eric.
>>>>> What about this....if this helps the situation...
>>>>> Lets say you solve a problem that has multiple solutions by using
>>>>> magic.  Maybe in doing so, you find a "seed of wisdom" which increases 
>>>>> your
>>>>> wisdom stat? :P
>>>>> shrug, maybe im just mudying the waters though hehe (if so, sorry!)
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 12:59 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> argh i am so torn because i totally think its awesome to have stats
>>>>>> hidden and you kinda play to your own strengths and find what works for 
>>>>>> YOU
>>>>>> and YOUR CHARACTER... like that seesms really neat... but on the other 
>>>>>> hand,
>>>>>> i know people love stats and i obsess about them too...
>>>>>> maybe not having stats would let people focus on having fun and having
>>>>>> a well rounded in depth character instead of just min/maxing and focusing
>>>>>> only on the most deadly skills...
>>>>>> like, diablo 2 is a good game (i havent played in years!!!) but
>>>>>> basically people found the only worthwhile skills and maxed them out and 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> game was balanced for having the best skills maxed out so hybrids or 
>>>>>> mutants
>>>>>> with quirky unique focuses became obsolete.  this happened in gemstone
>>>>>> too...
>>>>>> i really think a lot of effort should be made on our part to balance
>>>>>> the game so that its fun without having the numerically perfect 
>>>>>> character...
>>>>>> we want people to make mistakes and enjoy the flaws their characters 
>>>>>> have by
>>>>>> compensating in intelligent and clever ways...
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> One gripe I have with games that let you pick your stats is that you
>>>>>>> never really know what your getting yourself into. There have been 
>>>>>>> plenty of
>>>>>>> games I picked a "perfect" character and spent tons of time allocating
>>>>>>> points just to realize that the game didn't really play out as I had in 
>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>> or that stat I pumped was pretty useless.
>>>>>>> Do you think showing the stats to the player is even necessary? Does
>>>>>>> it really make a difference to know your strength is 1 or 10 as opposed 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> weak and strong?
>>>>>>> Throughout the course of the game you can have scenarios that modify
>>>>>>> your stats. If stats are adjustable throughout the game it's not as
>>>>>>> important to have that perfect set up at the beginning of the game. 
>>>>>>> There
>>>>>>> could be mini games you could play to modify your stats. For example, 
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> could be a game of chess. If you beat the computer in the game of chess 
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> only do you move on to a harder opponent but you gain an intelligence. 
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>> you spend too much time playing chess your strength might go down from a
>>>>>>> lack of activity. To increase your strength back up you may need to do
>>>>>>> something more strenuous. I think if there are a lot of ways to lose and
>>>>>>> gain stats there will be less need to have it perfect and less reason to
>>>>>>> prompt restarting.
>>>>>>> Any thoughts?
>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> It will be perfect timing since josh's storage system is going in
>>>>>>>> before the next milestone.
>>>>>>>> We'll be able to store the decisions the player made so that later
>>>>>>>> on we can query the system to see what choices they made (:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:33 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> probably a hybrid of both... i forget if it was just me and alan
>>>>>>>>> discussing this or if it was a public conversation but here was my 
>>>>>>>>> thought
>>>>>>>>> on it...
>>>>>>>>> ok so there will be a few mini scenarios that seem existential and
>>>>>>>>> unrelated in nature that basically test the player's personality, are 
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> greedy?  helpful? do they follow directions? do they think their way 
>>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>>> problems or fight their way through?  etc.
>>>>>>>>> there will be a few scenarios (i think this depends on how cool the
>>>>>>>>> first couple of ones turn out or if we decide this is 100% the way to 
>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>> it... in my mind there is up to 10 or so.... but maybe less, depends 
>>>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>>>> lot of factors) for the sake of example lets say there are 6.
>>>>>>>>> the player will play through 3 of the 6 in random order,  the way
>>>>>>>>> they work is that the player takes possession of a character in the 
>>>>>>>>> scenario
>>>>>>>>> and will have to complete it... some examples might be a prisoner 
>>>>>>>>> locked up
>>>>>>>>> and you have to escape, or a princess who has to decide which prince 
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> marry, or a warlord who has to decide whether to burn a city he has
>>>>>>>>> conquered, etc. the player's actions in the scenarios will go into 
>>>>>>>>> figuring
>>>>>>>>> out the perks and basic stats, as well as possibly gaining a sidekick 
>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>> scenario, or special perks, or the potential to use magic...
>>>>>>>>> furthermore, the player THINKS these are unrelated scenarios with
>>>>>>>>> no bearing on the game... not so, their decisions in the scenarios 
>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>> affect the story of the game... maybe later on you run into the 
>>>>>>>>> escaped
>>>>>>>>> prisoner, or you stumble upon a burnt down town, or you meet a queen 
>>>>>>>>> who is
>>>>>>>>> married to a vile tyrant - all things that the player unknowingly 
>>>>>>>>> affected.
>>>>>>>>> i think this would be really neat :) plus it adds replayability... i 
>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>> by having these types of things w/ the customized character and 
>>>>>>>>> various
>>>>>>>>> methods of getting through levels, etc... it gives each person their 
>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>> experience in the game and invites them to play the game over again 
>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>> different styles and methods...
>>>>>>>>> plus the scenarios will be fun and let us explore some diverse
>>>>>>>>> situations/environments/characters
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Are we going with playing the character creation process or
>>>>>>>>>> traditionally selecting stats n stuff from a list?
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 8:57 AM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> im writing up documents related to the mini-scenarios that will
>>>>>>>>>>> make up the intro/tutorial/character creation stuff... if anyone 
>>>>>>>>>>> has any
>>>>>>>>>>> ideas for these, let me know... if you're not sure how they work 
>>>>>>>>>>> yet, i'll
>>>>>>>>>>> post the first one soon so you get the gist of how it will work 
>>>>>>>>>>> (assumign we
>>>>>>>>>>> roll w/ this method)

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