[project1dev] Re: puzzle
- From: Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 23:25:29 -0800
I think the consensus on 1 and 3 sounds perfect, and I like the idea
of a 3d animated book too (as long as that wouldn't take too much
effort to put in of course)
Also Alan, that idea about uploadable input movies is really
helpful... that could be used for a lot of things other than play
testing as well, like leaderboards for minigames and including
developer movies with the game, New Mario Bros Wii style.
The new wii mario lets you unlock movies done by the devs with coins
you find in the levels for various things, such as really impressive
runs through a level, hint movies, and speed runs.
One more thing - Nick, have you actually done the puzzle yet? I think
you'll understand a lot more about the difficulty once you try it.
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 10:31 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> yeah i dont have the original design doc at hand but i envisioned it being a
> service manual for the automaton as well, and i definitely dig the idea of
> having a warning in there (like: Care must be taken when servicing this
> device, moving parts in an incorrect order can cause bodily harm and death)
>
> as far as it being hard vs. it being easy nick, listen i am ALL about
> challenge as you well know, but the thing is, i dont want the very very
> first part of the game being frustrating :-P before they even get into any
> actual gameplay you know? so i want it to be easy-ish while still be
> challenging enough to be rewarding.
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Matthew Freeland <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>>
>> For the book I was thinking of making it like a Servicing Diagram. Show
>> the overall completed piece then break to the next page where it's scrambled
>> and show people how to move the pieces in the book like an instruction
>> manual, making sure to note pieces can be rotated. Maaaaybe make a subtle
>> allude to explosions and blood if the pipes are installed backwards? :D
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> that's true... we don't want to make this too easy or too clear what to
>>> do.
>>>
>>> One thing i think that helps is that this is on the wagon behind the
>>> tent, which may cull out a lot of people discovering it since it's out of
>>> the way.
>>>
>>> who knows if in reality though people will generally search the area
>>> before going into the tent or not :P
>>>
>>> we'd have to get some people who don't know about it to play and see what
>>> they do.
>>>
>>> HEY!
>>>
>>> i was just thinking, you know what might be a good tool to make later on
>>> down the road?
>>>
>>> Being able to record the actions of players and then play them back
>>> later.
>>>
>>> for instance we could give "special builds" out to people for play
>>> testing, and then when they are done, it either automatically uploads their
>>> recording or they send a file to us (it wont be a movie, it'll just be a
>>> text file with all their "commands" such as "move to 450,320,200" and "press
>>> E" etc in binary format).
>>>
>>> Then, we could have a way in game to play back these recordings.
>>>
>>> That would let us give builds to people for play testing, then we could
>>> review what they did... IE did they go behind the tent and discover the
>>> puzzle @ the wagon, or did they just walk straight into the tent and not
>>> even look around.
>>>
>>> Pretty significant feature that would take some time, but it might be
>>> worth while to invest some time in later on
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> we should definitely have instructions on the puzzle itself so
>>>> > people dont just look at it and wonder wtf they are supposed to be
>>>> > doing
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do. Personally, one of my favorite things about a game is trying to
>>>> figure out if something is meant to be changed/interacted with, and
>>>> trying to solve the mysteries. Besides, this hacking puzzle is meant
>>>> to bypass the Temple (correct me if I'm wrong) and let the player
>>>> decide their own stats--that's pretty major in my eyes.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:58 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> > 1 and 3 for me, the book for hacking the machine was already part of
>>>> > the
>>>> > design for the tent and i dont think having a picture will make it too
>>>> > simple, we should definitely have instructions on the puzzle itself so
>>>> > people dont just look at it and wonder wtf they are supposed to be
>>>> > doing
>>>> >
>>>> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> What's the group consensus on the puzzle?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Did we want to have the puzzle break if its done upside down?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> How would you guys like me to adjust the puzzle?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 1) Add a book in the Fortune Teller tent that shows you the picture.
>>>> >> After
>>>> >> viewing the book, the finished product of the puzzle will also be
>>>> >> visible
>>>> >> when solving the puzzle.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 2) Setting at least one piece of the puzzle to be correct, not
>>>> >> moveable,
>>>> >> not rotatable
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 3) Add writing or clues to the puzzle itself
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 4) Some combination of the above
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I personally like 3 because I think adding a little writing on to the
>>>> >> puzzle could go a long way to making it more solvable without being
>>>> >> too
>>>> >> easy.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 10:59 PM, Chris Riccobono
>>>> >> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Ok, that's good to know, I was worried a lil :)
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>> >>> > that pink texture with the green question mark means a texture
>>>> >>> > cant be
>>>> >>> > found, it probly just isnt hooked up to the model right but the
>>>> >>> > flag on
>>>> >>> > the
>>>> >>> > tent has been like that for a long while, just somethin little to
>>>> >>> > get
>>>> >>> > fixed.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 10:48 PM, Chris Riccobono
>>>> >>> > <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> > wrote:
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> I just went in and tried to do it on the wagon, and I'm seeing
>>>> >>> >> more of
>>>> >>> >> what Alan was talking about... it's really a lot harder when you
>>>> >>> >> have
>>>> >>> >> to rotate the pieces as well!
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> If we keep that rotation we'll have to do something like directly
>>>> >>> >> put
>>>> >>> >> the image next to the puzzle like Eric said, just so it's
>>>> >>> >> solvable.
>>>> >>> >> The sideways thing really does apply like Alan said, depending on
>>>> >>> >> your
>>>> >>> >> random generation of the puzzle, this might be impossible to
>>>> >>> >> solve.
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> Also a side note: depending on the arrangement of the pieces,
>>>> >>> >> models
>>>> >>> >> on the tent below the puzzle will become the pink question mark
>>>> >>> >> squares that indicate a model is missing - I'm not sure what
>>>> >>> >> triggers
>>>> >>> >> this but I just wanted to point it out. Here's a screenshot of a
>>>> >>> >> closeup, because it's tiny:
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Chris Riccobono
>>>> >>> >> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>> >> > I am liking this sort of solution towards the difficulty of
>>>> >>> >> > solving
>>>> >>> >> > it. I personally was okay with the current difficulty of the
>>>> >>> >> > puzzle,
>>>> >>> >> > I think it's hard without being way too hard to solve, but I
>>>> >>> >> > have
>>>> >>> >> > been
>>>> >>> >> > looking at the progress on it so I might have had the
>>>> >>> >> > afterimage in
>>>> >>> >> > my
>>>> >>> >> > head.
>>>> >>> >> >
>>>> >>> >> > So with the book that has an image of what the puzzle would
>>>> >>> >> > look
>>>> >>> >> > like,
>>>> >>> >> > that definitely helps a ton with solving. We can defer
>>>> >>> >> > additional
>>>> >>> >> > difficulty to the puzzle based on how hard it is to find/open
>>>> >>> >> > the
>>>> >>> >> > book
>>>> >>> >> > too.
>>>> >>> >> >
>>>> >>> >> > It's good that we have everyone to play and test it though,
>>>> >>> >> > because
>>>> >>> >> > opinions on how fun or hard things are will be very important
>>>> >>> >> > as the
>>>> >>> >> > game goes on!
>>>> >>> >> >
>>>> >>> >> > On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 9:54 AM, eric drewes
>>>> >>> >> > <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> >> > wrote:
>>>> >>> >> >> i agree we should definitely have instructions and i think
>>>> >>> >> >> maybe
>>>> >>> >> >> the
>>>> >>> >> >> book
>>>> >>> >> >> inside the tent has an image of the finished puzzle in the
>>>> >>> >> >> correct
>>>> >>> >> >> location
>>>> >>> >> >> so if you view the book you'll know what it looks like and we
>>>> >>> >> >> can
>>>> >>> >> >> put a
>>>> >>> >> >> small version of the finished image on the side of the puzzle
>>>> >>> >> >> to
>>>> >>> >> >> let
>>>> >>> >> >> you
>>>> >>> >> >> know how it looks while you're working. If you just solve
>>>> >>> >> >> the
>>>> >>> >> >> puzzle
>>>> >>> >> >> but
>>>> >>> >> >> don't have the image or finish it upside down, etc. it breaks
>>>> >>> >> >> the
>>>> >>> >> >> whole
>>>> >>> >> >> machine and you get a standard base line of stats that aren't
>>>> >>> >> >> alterable
>>>> >>> >> >> -
>>>> >>> >> >> HOWEVER the upside is, we could have "oops i broke it" events
>>>> >>> >> >> throughout the
>>>> >>> >> >> game and if you get a certain number of them like i was saying
>>>> >>> >> >> earlier
>>>> >>> >> >> you
>>>> >>> >> >> get a "loser's luck" facet that maybe makes you have critical
>>>> >>> >> >> hits
>>>> >>> >> >> more
>>>> >>> >> >> often or affects/influences your character in a bunch of other
>>>> >>> >> >> ways.
>>>> >>> >> >> It
>>>> >>> >> >> would be a neat secret thing or maybe something people build
>>>> >>> >> >> their
>>>> >>> >> >> characters around! :)
>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>> >>> >> >> how does that sound?
>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>> >>> >> >> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Matthew Freeland
>>>> >>> >> >> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> >> >> wrote:
>>>> >>> >> >>>
>>>> >>> >> >>> the face of a clock on one of the corner pieces clearly
>>>> >>> >> >>> indicated
>>>> >>> >> >>> 12
>>>> >>> >> >>> o'clock should be helpful.
>>>> >>> >> >>>
>>>> >>> >> >>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Alan Wolfe
>>>> >>> >> >>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> >> >>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >> >>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>> yeah i defer to eric as well, I just wanted to make sure and
>>>> >>> >> >>>> point
>>>> >>> >> >>>> out
>>>> >>> >> >>>> these "spit and pollish" problems so they could get
>>>> >>> >> >>>> addressed.
>>>> >>> >> >>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>> btw this puzzle idea of yours kent worked out really well,
>>>> >>> >> >>>> it was
>>>> >>> >> >>>> a
>>>> >>> >> >>>> really good idea (:
>>>> >>> >> >>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Kent Petersen
>>>> >>> >> >>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> >> >>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>> I personally like the idea of having a little text on it
>>>> >>> >> >>>>> but I
>>>> >>> >> >>>>> leave
>>>> >>> >> >>>>> it
>>>> >>> >> >>>>> up to Eric.
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 9:27 AM, Alan Wolfe
>>>> >>> >> >>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> neato!
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> well with the puzzle, you can tell when peices fit
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> together but
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> there
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> is no indication which way is up
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> yesterday i "solved" it, but it didnt recognize i won
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> because
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> it
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> was
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> sideways or something.
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> how do you guys think we should address that?
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> one way would be with art, by putting text on one or some
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> of
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> the
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> images
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> that made it clear which way is up.
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> another way would be to slightly darken the puzzles peices
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> and
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> when
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> they were in the correct place / orientation, they would
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> brighten
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> up to show
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> you that they were in the right place (although this would
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> make
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> the
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> whole
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> puzzle easier)
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> theres probably lots of other ways to handle it but those
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> are
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> just
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> 2
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> ways that came to mind for me
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 7:46 AM, eric drewes
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> i like the idea of doing it upside down, etc. causing
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> some
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> other
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> affect like breaking it
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> I have a pretty sweet idea actually like, we could have
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> failing at
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> certain things affect character creation but maybe if you
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> fail
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> at
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> EVERYTHING
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> you unlock some sorta "losers luck" facet
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Kent Petersen
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> It does recognize when you win. The puzzle closes up and
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> the
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> console
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> says you win. I'm glad everyone is liking it. Wurmz did
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> a
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> great
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> job with the
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> art.
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> It would be funny that if did it upside down you break
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> it
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> instead
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> of
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> hack it.
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> I think the preface stuff would be a good addition.
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 8:11 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> oh hey kent, does the game recognize when you solve the
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> puzzle?
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> if not we should make it close the puzzle and put up a
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> dialog
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> box or
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> something saying they won.
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> i think i have the puzzle solved but not sure 100% hehe
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> :P
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> wow - that is really fun.
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> i wasnt sure if a 16 peice puzzle would be too easy
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> but its
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> actually kind of challenging to solve (the artwork
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> really
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> helps
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> with that
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> too i think) without being impossibly hard.
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> question though... what if they solve the puzzle but
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> upside
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> down or something... it's hard to tell which way is
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> rightside
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> up.
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Hey do you guys think we should put some stuff in for
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> this
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> to
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> preface it?
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Someting like...
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> We could put a little electrical panel looking thing
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> side of
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> the cart.
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> When you walk up to it, it says "press E to open
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> panel"
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> when you open it, maybe a bunch of peices fall out as
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> the
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> door
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> swings open and it's like "butterfingers you broke
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> it! You
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> better fix it!"
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> that is a bad example cause it doesnt really fit with
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> the
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> idea
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> of
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> hacking the robot but ::shrug:: i dunno, i think we
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> could
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> embelish the
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> experience with some stuff like that.
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> what you guys think?
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>>
>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>> >>> >> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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