[project1dev] Re: [offtopic] Game theory TOP 5 GAMES

  • From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:10:06 -0500

well you dont know you were a fallen jedi until much later, but point
taken.  I really think for me it was more a time thing than anything else, i
mean, KOTOR was just as linear but you went through multiple journeys and
quests before you became a jedi, and when you became a Jedi, you gained
powers and light sabers and cool robes and there was a philosophy behind it,
etc.  but Specter seemed like a fill in for Jedi's but without everything
that made Jedi's cool, so there was no real "step up" from a gameplay
perspective... but in KOTOR there was a distinct contrast between pre-jedi
and post-jedi.

maybe if i hadn't played KOTOR 1/2 before ME, i would have liked it more, i
think the comparisons hurt it, especially because i had such massive
expectations for ME that when the game itself fell short of them, i didn't
give it enough of a chance.  im trying to remember how far i got in ME
before i quit.  I know i had freedom to roam the galaxy and i explored a
couple (empty) planets with the vehicle

and yeah, if they released a real working lightsaber but it cost 5000
dollars, I would totally start scrimping and saving right now to get one -
wouldn't you?


On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 12:58 PM, CiD <screamingdazeez@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Actually, in KOTOR, you were ALREADY a fallen jedi.  Got to love the abuse
> of amnesia in movies and games.
>
> Running around and shooting things is the description of every game that
> includes guns, right?
>
> Lightsabers should be included with EVERYTHING.  Come on scientists, why
> don't we have lightsabers now?  And where is the flying car?!  Get working
> on it.
>
>
> --- On Thu, 2/25/10, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: [project1dev] Re: [offtopic] Game theory TOP 5 GAMES
> > To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Date: Thursday, February 25, 2010, 9:45 AM
> > i guess what i'm saying is, show me,
> > don't tell me...  there's a text backstory you read
> > and pick and your first mission is something so huge and you
> > handle it so well to justify the honor... well i beat that
> > mission and it was pretty easy, so i dunno why they are
> > impressed by my relatively amateur skills at a game i just
> > got??? maybe if the first mission was really hardcore epic
> > and long and arduous and it took some fiendish skills for me
> > to complete it, it would make sense but IIRC i just ran
> > around and shot some stuff and basically went through a
> > level that was functionally on rails, actually yeah, i guess
> > they had point A and point B and they drew a straight line
> > connecting them but i was never really immersed in the
> > experience.
> >
> >
> > i mean, its cool that you were into it and there's
> > plenty of stuff that i am into that most people don't
> > really like or get so its nothing against your experience
> > but for me personally, i didn't feel like i earned
> > anything, i barely had scratched the surface of the game
> > before people started telling me how awesome i am and
> > awarded me this incredible honor... it just felt really
> > hollow.  my examples is KOTOR, where you played like 5-6
> > hours and went through all kinds of crazy stuff and saved
> > jedi and then went through important tests/trials before you
> > were awarded jedi status... i really missed that in ME.
> > also, i missed light sabers.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 12:28 PM,
> > CiD <screamingdazeez@xxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> >
> > You should try Mass Effect again.  There is back story
> > that explains why you deserve specter status.  In the
> > beginning, when you are creating your character, it asks
> > what kind of background you want.  Then, In the opening
> > dialogue between Captain Anderson and Councilor Udina, they
> > integrate your choices to explain why you are so awesome.
> >  On your first mission you stumble upon something so huge
> > and handle it so well the council is forced to consider you.
> >  There is a bunch of history surrounding the galaxy
> > available in the Codex from the menu screen.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Damn, now I want to go play it again.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > > Subject: [project1dev] Re: [offtopic] Game theory TOP
> > 5 GAMES
> >
> > > To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > > Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 10:36 AM
> >
> > > personally, i was a
> > *huge* fan of the two
> >
> > > kotor games (even though the 2nd is often dismissed
> > as
> >
> > > inferior, i thought the "dark side" aspects
> > of the
> >
> > > story were among the best in star wars lore - it
> > actually
> >
> > > framed the dark side in a way that was relate-able and
> > made
> >
> > > sense logically, something that i had hoped the
> > prequel
> >
> > > trilogy would do *sigh*) but Mass Effect was a HUGE
> > let down
> >
> > > for me.  I read all the previews and had it
> > pre-ordered and
> >
> > > was totally amped for it when it was released but
> > there were
> >
> > > some major flaws that killed it for me:  basically,
> > in the
> >
> > > KOTOR games there was a build up to becoming a Jedi,
> > you
> >
> > > really had to put in your dues and earn it.  When
> > you
> >
> > > finally made it, it felt epic and meaningful.  They
> > tried
> >
> > > to do something similar in Mass Effect w/ the specters
> > (its
> >
> > > been awhile, that may not be the right name) but you
> > became
> >
> > > one in the first hour or so of the game, and even
> > though
> >
> > > they tried to make it seem like a huge honor and they
> > played
> >
> > > orchestra music, etc. it felt really hollow... there
> >
> > > wasn't enough background or context to make it
> > seem
> >
> > > important and you, the player, did nothing to justify
> > being
> >
> > > bestowed the honor.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I actually thought the real time combat held up ok in
> > Mass
> >
> > > Effect also, but really the game didn't really
> > suck me
> >
> > > in the way KOTOR did and i lost interest after a few
> > hours
> >
> > > and never really picked it up again.  Maybe I
> > didn't
> >
> > > give it enough of a shot though because a lot of
> > people I
> >
> > > respect seem into it.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I am also a fan of all 3 fallout games, for different
> >
> > > reasons though.  the first two, basically i agree w/
> >
> > > everything Cid said, but i thought the 3rd one was
> > great as
> >
> > > well, even though it was a completely different style
> > than
> >
> > > the originals.  Fallout 3 was great because i love
> >
> > > exploration and finding stuff and it seemed like every
> > night
> >
> > > i could go home, fire up my xbox, wander into a
> > random
> >
> > > direction, and find an interesting
> > quest/story/situation.
> >
> > > I really hope bethesda learned from fallout 3 and what
> > made
> >
> > > it great compared to oblivion (another massive
> >
> > > disappointment, imo) and make the next elder scrolls
> > game
> >
> > > fucking AMAZING.  Oblivion seemed to have all the
> > pieces in
> >
> > > place but the level/treasure system completely
> > undermined
> >
> > > it.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I am a huge fan of square's older games, including
> > ff1,
> >
> > > ff4, ff6, ff7 and chrono trigger.  loved the music
> > and
> >
> > > characters and story, ff6 in particular will always
> > have a
> >
> > > special place in my heart.  I realize its trendy now
> > to
> >
> > > bash ff7 but i remember when it came out, it totally
> > blew me
> >
> > > away, the graphics and environments were so great,
> > that game
> >
> > > felt like an adventure from start to finish.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > i also really enjoyed the older dragon warriors, the
> > 3rd in
> >
> > > particular is one of my fav games of all time, i liked
> > how
> >
> > > you could customize your party to match your play
> > style.
> >
> > > If you haven't played it and want to, i suggest
> > the GBC
> >
> > > version because of the add-ons they put in,
> > there's a
> >
> > > really fun dice game :) and i love gambling on
> > monster
> >
> > > fights.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Another RPG i am really fond of is "Mordor"
> > which
> >
> > > is an old windows rpg where you created as many
> > characters
> >
> > > as you wanted (but parties were limited to 4 at a
> > time) to
> >
> > > explore this huge deep labyrinth, if a character died
> > you
> >
> > > had to retrieve their body and pay to get it
> > resurrected, or
> >
> > > sometimes  you'd just say "well bon voyage
> > mon
> >
> > > ami" and let em go.  There were a ton of classes
> > you
> >
> > > could join and different weapons/armor, you could
> > even
> >
> > > capture beasts and have them in your game.  Mordor
> > was
> >
> > > really a neat concept and i'd love to do an
> > updated
> >
> > > version someday (the UI and graphics dont really hold
> > up
> >
> > > anymore).  A somewhat similar game called
> > "Etrian
> >
> > > Odyssey" was released on the DS a couple years
> > ago, it
> >
> > > was pretty good but lacked the depth of customization
> > Mordor
> >
> > > had.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 1:06 PM,
> >
> > > Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I love your choices. I haven't played Mass Effect
> > but I
> >
> > > definitely want to. Your other 4 choices are
> >
> > > great.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 12:52 AM,
> >
> > > CiD <screamingdazeez@xxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Top 5 RPGs in no particular order
> >
> > > because it would be too hard to choose:
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > -Mass Effect Trilogy - Yeah, I know the 3rd hasn't
> > been
> >
> > > released, but this is Bioware we're talking
> > about.
> >
> > >  These guys know how to tell a story cinematically
> > better
> >
> > > than anyone in the business.  The first 2 made me
> > feel like
> >
> > > I was saving the galaxy and making a difference and
> > they did
> >
> > > it in style.  So many great dialogue quotes, fun
> > action
> >
> > > oriented combat, and a company that listens to
> > it's fans
> >
> > > about what they didn't like to change or remove it
> > in
> >
> > > the sequel.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > -Chrono Trigger - I've never been a fan of the
> > Final
> >
> > > Fantasy series so for a Squaresoft (pre-Enix) game to
> > tell
> >
> > > the tale of time and catch my interest I was
> > surprised.
> >
> > >  This thing even holds up to today's standards
> > and
> >
> > > it's 16 bit!  I'll never forget the opening
> >
> > > sequence: "Chrono.  Chrono?  Wake up,
> > Chrono!"
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > -Fallout 1 and 2 - Humor in a post apocalyptic world
> > with
> >
> > > lightning striking twice = GOLD!
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > -Planescape: Torment - Black Isle's masterpiece
> > before
> >
> > > shutting down.  Nothing is more philosophical than
> > this
> >
> > > gem.  Socrates himself would have died a thousand
> > deaths,
> >
> > > each time waking up in a dustman morgue, only to die
> > a
> >
> > > thousand more pondering the intricacies of this
> > D&D
> >
> > > universe.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > -Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic - Bioware
> > again?!
> >
> > >  Somebody should buy these guys already (*wink wink*
> > EA)!
> >
> > >  A large portion of the greatest fan base in
> > existence
> >
> > > believes this original Xbox/PC title re-energized the
> >
> > > legendary saga after the atrocity of the prequel
> > trilogy
> >
> > > disaster.  So good it's being made into an
> > MMORPG.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > --- On Tue, 2/23/10, Hanaan <hanaan.fu@xxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > From: Hanaan <hanaan.fu@xxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Subject: [project1dev] Re: [offtopic] Game
> > theory
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 3:25 PM
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Yeah you are missing out :)  But I like your
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > comments.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > I dont know why but I have this
> > "blackout"
> >
> > > in my
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > gaming history where I
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > have been playing games since NES and then hop to
> > PC
> >
> > > around
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > the time of
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Diablo and then I go straight from Diablo into
> > sims
> >
> > > and
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > strategy.  I
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > have heard of Chrono Trigger but never played
> > it.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Have not played
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Fable 2 but I think I might rent that and give it
> > a
> >
> > > go.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > I want to finish Mass Effect but havent had time
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > lately.  Dragon Age is
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > amazingly well done.  You just dont find good
> > RPGs
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > very often this day
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > and age so dont miss that one if you enjoy story
> >
> > > driven
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > games.  There
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > is a game for PS3, Demons Souls, thats supposed
> > to be
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > great.  I have
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > not found the interest to turn that game back on
> > tbh,
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > hehe.  But it is
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > said to be well done so I will finish in the
> > future.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > For me, RPGs have to have a world worth
> > exploring.
> >
> > > It
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > just has to,
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > thats sort of what the genre is about for me.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Uncovering the secrets
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > that make you the hero of the day, not just
> > coming to
> >
> > > the
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > rescue of
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > some besieged town or troubled family or
> > whatever
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > else.  Its your
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > ability to get into the world and learn things
> > for
> >
> > > yourself
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > and bring
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > the baddies to their end.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > And yeah story has to be very compelling.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > On 2/23/2010 3:27 PM, Alan Wolfe wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > oh i also liked final fantasy 3, thought that
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > game had
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > great characters and TONS of places to explore
> > and
> >
> > > lots of
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > hidden stuff
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > which was really neat.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Good storyline that kept you involved too.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > I liked chrono trigger too, for alot of the same
> >
> > > reasons
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > but i think it
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > was a more light / cartoony game than ff3.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > breath of fire was pretty good but it was too
> >
> > > complicated
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > for me or
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > something, i couldnt figure it out and so stopped
> > half
> >
> > > way
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > through.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > elder scrolls oblivion was kinda fun for a while
> > but
> >
> > > it was
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > almost too
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > open ended, like everything was so procedural
> > there
> >
> > > was no
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > "heart" to
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > any of it or something.  Especially since
> > enemies
> >
> > > were
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > always your
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > level, it seemed like leveling up didn't
> > really
> >
> > > matter,
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > nor did any of
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > the skills. It did have it's fun parts
> > though.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > I havent played mass effect or dragon age hehe, i
> > bet
> >
> > > im
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > missing out :P
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > </spamtastic>
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >   On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:13 PM,
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >   i
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > think an emersive story that keeps your interest
> > is
> >
> > > what i
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > look for
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > most in an RPG
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > my fav game of recent times i think is fable2,
> >
> > > although
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > there was a lot
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > of open endedness to it too besides a general
> >
> > > storyline you
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > followed.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > i really liked the atmosphere of that game and i
> > think
> >
> > > when
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > people
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > really have a good vision and really enjoy the
> > game
> >
> > > they
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > are making
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > that it shines through.  especially in small
> > details
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > that you don't
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > really *need* to do, but that you want to to make
> > it
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > better.  hard to
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > explain what i mean but i think when developers
> > are
> >
> > > really
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > into the
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > game they are making that you can tell and it
> > makes it
> >
> > > a
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > lot better (:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > there was that movie not too long ago about the
> > guy
> >
> > > who
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > aged in
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > reverse.  In that movie this lady told him
> > regarding
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > music: "it doesnt
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > matter what you play, but how you feel about it
> > that
> >
> > > makes
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > it sound
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > good or not".
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > I think the same is true of any creative
> > endeavor, and
> >
> > > that
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > the best
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > games are those that you can tell the developers
> >
> > > really
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > believed in (:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >     On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 12:54
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > PM, Hanaan <hanaan.fu@xxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >     Any
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > of you play Mass Effect or Dragon Age?  I have
> > not
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > finished Mass Effect
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > but am enjoying.  Have finished DA a few times
> > and I
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > can not stop
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > dissecting it in my mind.  Always asking myself
> > what
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > makes this game
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > work so well as an RPG.  You guys always seem to
> > be
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > talking about other
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > games and there seems interest in discussing
> > game
> >
> > > theory.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > what makes a good RPG work for you guys?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > ==============================
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Project 1 Dev mailing list
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > to unsubscribe, please send an email request to
> > demofox@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Project 1 website: http://project1.demofox.org
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Project 1 SVN repository: http://pyotek.com/project1
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Project 1 Dev mailing list
> >
> > >
> >
> > > to unsubscribe, please send an email request to demofox@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Project 1 website: http://project1.demofox.org
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Project 1 SVN repository: http://pyotek.com/project1
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Project 1 Dev mailing list
> >
> > to unsubscribe, please send an email request to demofox@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > Project 1 website: http://project1.demofox.org
> >
> > Project 1 SVN repository: http://pyotek.com/project1
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Project 1 Dev mailing list
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