[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI

  • From: Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 22:27:12 -0700

Depends on what choices you want. I think if there are too many choices it
may be cumbersome.

 I spose we could have a drop down menu... doesn't seem too difficult. I
haven't put a lot of thought into it but it probably wouldn't be any harder
than making one in javascript.

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:00 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> we dont need a drop down if its a pain, i have another idea for it - we
> just have a ton of options for what people can pick (pair, small straight,
> large straight, uber straight, full house, etc) actually that reminds me, do
> you guys think we should have full houses, 2 pairs, etc. seems complicated
> but also adds depth.  i didn't factor that in when i was working on the
> current iteration.... basically the "call" screen that pops up can be huge
> and have a ton of combinations and variables to cover everything but does
> that sound like it would work in practice? or would it make that part of the
> game cumbersome?
> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:48 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> i like the look of the ui, it looks really nice.
>> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:41 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> ok so this design is taking a little bit longer than anticipated but we
>>> have all the kinks worked out, i have the design finished but i still need
>>> to slice it up for kent into the individual pieces he needs for the game
>>> basically when you "call" a pop up window will come up letting you choose
>>> either a straight or a combination of dice, i actually am rethinking how i
>>> have this part laid out - hey guys can we do a drop down for this? not sure
>>> if that is a possibility...
>>> anyways, just letting you know where we're at here. :)
>>> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 7:30 AM, eric <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> I will update it with the new information we discussed design-wise and
>>>> send it to you sliced up with the individual pieces you'll need when I get
>>>> home from work. I have storyboards for you too to help also
>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From: *Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> *Date: *Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:51:58 -0700
>>>> *To: *<project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> *Subject: *[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI
>>>> Hey Eric. I was looking at the labeled pictures for the UI. I can't
>>>> figure out where you want me to display the information the player is
>>>> claiming to have. How did you want that to work?
>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:27 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> i like the idea also although playing devil's advocate against my own
>>>>> idea, there's something really simple and clean about the $5 dollars for
>>>>> 1000 gold idea nick came up with... just because i would never do it 
>>>>> doesn't
>>>>> mean the market isn't out there... and having more money doesn't make you 
>>>>> a
>>>>> better player, if you suck you'll just have more money to lose to good
>>>>> players.  Maybe we charge $5 dollars for 1000 gold and a month pass into 
>>>>> the
>>>>> VIP area, that gives value to it.  I think VIP passes should be 
>>>>> purchasable
>>>>> w/ in game money too though...
>>>>> i dunno, i guess really the question is how hard will it be to
>>>>> implement from a tech viewpoint, and more importantly does the potential
>>>>> profit justify the work.  if the answer is yes, then we will find a way to
>>>>> make it work from a design standpoint.  :)
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>> I feel the same way as you. Honestly, I think paying real money for in
>>>>>> game stuff is retarded. Plenty of people out there think it's a great 
>>>>>> idea.
>>>>>> I really liked the idea of having a VIP lounge where players who paid
>>>>>> can go in and they would get a higher payout.
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:13 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>> well lemme put on my 3 hats
>>>>>>> gamer hat: i hate spending real life cash for in game stuff
>>>>>>> designer hat: i dont like the competitive advantage real life cash
>>>>>>> gives to people with those resources over regular gamers
>>>>>>> capitalist hat: if people are stupid enough to give us $ for pirate
>>>>>>> dice gold, then let them *exhales cuban cigar smoke*
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>> but i guess even if people find out how to get in game money for
>>>>>>>> free, we'd still get some people buyin it so shrug
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Alan Wolfe 
>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>> i would only consider it if i could use that money for anything in
>>>>>>>>> game,  but even then it wouldnt be too hard for someone to make a 
>>>>>>>>> program
>>>>>>>>> that just edited ram and gave themselves a ton of money (then they 
>>>>>>>>> publish
>>>>>>>>> that program publicly and lots of people have it)
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:33 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> i mean we can definitely do it but would you pay real life money
>>>>>>>>>> for in game money that you can earn yourself if you can't spend that 
>>>>>>>>>> in-game
>>>>>>>>>> money on anything?  that is a legit question, im not shooting the 
>>>>>>>>>> idea down,
>>>>>>>>>> im just saying is it worth our effort of setting it up? what will be 
>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>> motivation to buy?
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Those are all nice features, but it seems pretty out of scope.  I
>>>>>>>>>>> just meant a minor suggestion of like, "$5 buys you 100 gold", etc. 
>>>>>>>>>>>  Sorry
>>>>>>>>>>> for the tangent.
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:24 PM, eric drewes 
>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> oh yeah, cashing in game money for real life money is a terrible
>>>>>>>>>>>> idea, i was just saying thats the only reason I personally would 
>>>>>>>>>>>> pay real
>>>>>>>>>>>> life money for in game money.
>>>>>>>>>>>> man, its rough.  obviously my gamer instincts are telling me,
>>>>>>>>>>>> "hell no" to a pay real $ for in game money system.  its my 
>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion that
>>>>>>>>>>>> people ebay ruined gemstone, it ruined it for me as a player 
>>>>>>>>>>>> because i had a
>>>>>>>>>>>> hard time spending gold i earned in game on in game stuff because 
>>>>>>>>>>>> i could
>>>>>>>>>>>> only think of it translated to real life money - like lets say i 
>>>>>>>>>>>> kill
>>>>>>>>>>>> monsters for a month and earn 4 million gold, i think hey i'd like 
>>>>>>>>>>>> a new
>>>>>>>>>>>> sword or i could sell it on ebay for 60 bucks... and conversely, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the people
>>>>>>>>>>>> who had $$$ to spend bought all the money and all the nice items 
>>>>>>>>>>>> and ruined
>>>>>>>>>>>> the economy. Basically it creates an in-balance between the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> straight up
>>>>>>>>>>>> gamers who want to earn everything the right way, and rich 
>>>>>>>>>>>> assholes who will
>>>>>>>>>>>> fork over $$$ to cheat the system.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am slightly happier with maybe making the multiplayer part of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the game a tiered subscription system if we want to monetize it 
>>>>>>>>>>>> that way,
>>>>>>>>>>>> where different levels cost different monthly fees and unlock new 
>>>>>>>>>>>> areas or
>>>>>>>>>>>> like VIP sections of existing games where maybe the odds are 
>>>>>>>>>>>> easier or maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>> if you're a paid gamer, you get a daily allowance of gold or 
>>>>>>>>>>>> something...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cool with charging real life cash for pirate dice money"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What if it was for "in game money", not specifically pirate
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice money?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And im sure you are on the same page as me but i think being
>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to cash out in game money for real life money is a bad move. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> take sooo much work to get the security right and like get some 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kind of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> payment gateway working etc.  Like you said it would make us a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> gambling
>>>>>>>>>>>>> website, and doin that takes a lot of work for something really 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> outside of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the scope of what we are trying to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> farmville makes over $20,000 a month on people spending REAL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cash for ingame money to buy tractors and such.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Imagine that, Pirate Dice gambling for real money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:47 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am cool with charging real life cash for pirate dice money.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we could even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make an exclusive VIP club for "paying" customers - but i have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be honest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and say... i am not sure why people would pay for money in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game unless they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could convert that money back into IRL cash... and that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obviously would make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us a gambling site :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gold in games like WoW is worth real life money because the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> demand for gold in the game is really high and there's a lot 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you can do with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that money that gives it value... i just dont know if that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> translates here quite yet, but possibly in the future!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think there is a difference between paying for content
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and paying for stuff that is available to everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the player has to spend timea mini game to earn money.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The player should be able to have an alternative to earning 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money. Not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone will want to play that mini game. In addition to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minigame variety I think another way to earn money could be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowing the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players to spend real money and save time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To me, paying for content would be more like paying for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> patch or an additional character.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well i was just bringin it up cause i know eric hates
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games where you have to pay for content.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This may be different though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, it would be nice to be able to make a lil stream of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money this way yeah (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VIP anyone?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thought for allowing buyable money is that you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can flag players who buy money and only allow them to play 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players who buy money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like the newer ideas going into pirate dice. I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game will have better flow and be more of its own 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also like the idea of letting people spend real money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on games. I think it opens of your audience to a wider 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> range of adult
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players. There are plenty of people out there who would 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather spend a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bucks in real life than play a repetitive mini game to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> earn money. So why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allow both? After enough time has passed on the game 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> servers there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough money in circulation that it would not matter as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much to game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a fan of generating money. :T
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but, dunno how eric feels about that... it could ruin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some stuff about the game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that would be a good way to generate some revenue :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Give people the option to buy gold with real
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> monies.  :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds like a good solution eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So if there are 3 private dice that means 3 rounds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of play, so you have to have 3x of ante? (or is it 4 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rounds?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any case you would have to have either 3x or 4x
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ante (depending on how many rounds of betting 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are cause i am dumb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right now lol) and if you don't you can't play?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, sounds great to me, good way to plug the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kent you have it exactly right i think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan - that is a good question... we could do it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like regular poker where it creates a side pot for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people to continue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting and the person that is out of money would 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just win the main pot if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he wins, and the second place person would get the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> side pot... but that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems clumsy to me.  I would actually say we should 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just make it that if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone doesn't have enough money to buy in for an 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entire game, they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disqualified and kicked from the table until they 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you enter the pirate dice area, you start off with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an amount of gold and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's 3 games of pirate dice going, 1 with a low 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante, 1 with a medium and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then a high stakes game.  We could also have a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "loan shark" NPC who offers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to loan small amounts of money at high interest, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and what i was thinking was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you run out of $$$ completely, we have a 2nd 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mini game in the area that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can earn you cash that is free.  I was thinking it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be like, you could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work as a bartender and the drink buyer gives you a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tip and we could make a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mini bar tending game, or you have to go in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backroom and catch all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rats and they give you a fixed amount per rat... 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that way, no one is ever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuck and completely unable to play...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what happens if the ante comes up and you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out of money?  IE when you are "all in"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty solid as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best games are the most simple. Easy to play, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hard to master.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So to change the game from how it is to the new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> model we would.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player, first round starts with 3 visible dice 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolled and 1 hidden dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) remove raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If players still state what they have in their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hand to stay in the game and call you would need 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to state that you have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> greater than or equal hand than the person who 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called before you right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably best to go without for now. I could see 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it potentially working in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2v2 version of pirate dice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making the rest of the areas you need, i wasn't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure how to proceed so i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figured i'd better talk it out first.  I think 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have the right idea but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here's a way i was thinking it could work:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) each player ante's up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player rolls 1 hidden dice.  (I think these 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amounts may change when we play
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> test for balance, but this is an ok starting 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in 1 coin and and claims a combination to open 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the match
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can either put 1 coin in and claim to top the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous person's combination,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or fold out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  2nd hidden dice is rolled, also the amount to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stay in the game up a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pre-decided increment.  For example it could go 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up 1 each round, or double
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each round, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> left or 3 hidden dice have been rolled, if 3 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have been rolled and its gone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around to everyone else, everyone reveals their 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice and the highest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination wins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had a rule to call bluff, we kinda stopped 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> callign it or it was infrequent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while we were playing the actual game.  I think 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pirate dice might not need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calling a bluff at all, really when playing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through just be ante'ing up and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continuing on you're essentially "calling their 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff"  - just like regular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> poker a bluffer can keep bluffing all the way 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> till the reveal, after that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the proof is in the pudding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff would work anyhow.  One way I was thinking 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was at any time, a person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can call "bluff" on the previous person's claim 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead of claiming for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their round, they still have to pay the ante-in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fee to call a bluff.  Once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff is called, the accused reveals his dice, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if he was lying, he forfeits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and pays a liars fee equivalent to the round's 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante.  Likewise, if the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accused was telling the truth, he forfeits and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the accuser has to pay a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tattler's fee equivalent to the round's ante.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my problem with any of these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is it enables a really easy kingmaker for people 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working together, but i am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely all ears if anyone has an idea how to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make it work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> increases each round. be affected by the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blinds? Do you still want a large
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and small blinds?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UI screen looks nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some mods and see what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raising?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public and then the next 3 dice to come out 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one turn at a time?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  the betting thing, i can't remember what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we did when we played it, i wish i could.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you can't bet, you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out.  Is it that if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you want to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the last person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out?  Just tryin to wrap 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have progressively higher combinations of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice, basically what you said is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly right - if you want to stay in you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to have or claim to have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better combination of dice than the person 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before you,  so essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're betting more and trying to bluff them 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out with every turn.  Raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and making bets is redundant to the premise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to misty and i'm pretty sure we didn't bet 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything when we played, we had a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point system where if you won you got 2 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> points, folded you got 0, if you got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called for bluffing you lost 3 points, etc.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i don't really remember
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though... but i dont think we bet...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> per round, its simple and easy while still 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping a high risk/reward for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players who continue playing - I am, of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, open to other ideas though!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was just working through playing pirate 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice in my head to make the UI and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i realized that betting, etc. overly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complicates when you're essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting/bluffing anyways whenever you claim 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have a better hand on your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had forgotten that aspect of the game (the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public dice).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we did when we played it, i wish i could.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you can't bet, you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out.  Is it that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you want to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the last person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say you have something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out?  Just tryin to wrap 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> place to list the players in the room 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (since there may be more players than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are sitting down).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labeled version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we need to work out some kinks in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game flow before i finalize things...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this game from a multiplayer perspective 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I have a problem w/ the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard raise/call format of poker in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relevance to this game.  Basically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the gameplay comes from divulging the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> type and combination of dice you have,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and since you tell everyone what you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have (or what you're pretending to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have) every turn, betting doesn't work 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the conventional way.  Basically I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was thinking that rather than escalating 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bets manually as players, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think there should be an "ante" to stay 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in whenever it is your turn, so you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have the choice of either folding out of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game or putting in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pre-defined ante, telling everyone what 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have (or are pretending to have)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that either beats, or matches the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous player, or calling the bluff of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the previous player.  I realize this is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slight deviation from the current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> design but I think it will function much 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more cleanly and it makes more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sense when put into a game perspective.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically we can have multiple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stakes, so there can be a high stakes 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game where its 10 gold a round, or a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> low stakes game where it's 1 gold per 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, etc. or perhaps the amount of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante to stay in per round escalated 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (i.e. it's low in the first couple of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rounds but when you get into the 5th or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6th round the stakes get higher
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making it a riskier thing (and thus more 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fun!) to continue or bluff or call
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this was a bit of omission when Alan and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I were trying to remember how we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> played the game, there was some publicly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed amount of dice, either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice that are shared by all players or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe each players first 3 dice are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed, this will give something for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other players to try to judge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether the person is bluffing or not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and to try to calculate the odds.  The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game was originally conceived of as a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination of the liar's dice game on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pirates of the carribean and texas 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hold'em, so I am pretty sure having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that visible dice was part of what made 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game fun and playable.  Sorry it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is hard to explain via e-mail without 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having dice in front of me but what i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean is this:   we could either have 3 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice that are shared amongst all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players (like the flop in texas hold'em)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once everyone ante's up - let's say a 3, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a 6 and a 2 are rolled.  Now the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players roll their first 2 hidden dice.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Player one sees he rolled a 3 and a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 in his personal hidden dice, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claims he has a pair of 3's.  The rest of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the players can see all he needed to do 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was roll one 3 himself in order to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get that pair of 3's so he is probably 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not bluffing.  The game escalates
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where every players first 3 dice are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible to all players, and all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subsequence dice rolls are hidden.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these games is figuring out the odds, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to get lucky on dice rolls and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to guess if other people are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing.  Part of all three of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things is giving people hints to try to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess at what the other person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> REALLY has.  Having the visible dice is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that tantalizing hint. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think?

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