[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI

  • From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 01:00:18 -0400

we dont need a drop down if its a pain, i have another idea for it - we just
have a ton of options for what people can pick (pair, small straight, large
straight, uber straight, full house, etc) actually that reminds me, do you
guys think we should have full houses, 2 pairs, etc. seems complicated but
also adds depth.  i didn't factor that in when i was working on the current
iteration.... basically the "call" screen that pops up can be huge and have
a ton of combinations and variables to cover everything but does that sound
like it would work in practice? or would it make that part of the game
cumbersome?

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:48 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> i like the look of the ui, it looks really nice.
>
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:41 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> ok so this design is taking a little bit longer than anticipated but we
>> have all the kinks worked out, i have the design finished but i still need
>> to slice it up for kent into the individual pieces he needs for the game
>>
>> basically when you "call" a pop up window will come up letting you choose
>> either a straight or a combination of dice, i actually am rethinking how i
>> have this part laid out - hey guys can we do a drop down for this? not sure
>> if that is a possibility...
>>
>> anyways, just letting you know where we're at here. :)
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 7:30 AM, eric <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> I will update it with the new information we discussed design-wise and
>>> send it to you sliced up with the individual pieces you'll need when I get
>>> home from work. I have storyboards for you too to help also
>>>
>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From: *Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> *Date: *Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:51:58 -0700
>>> *To: *<project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> *Subject: *[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI
>>>
>>> Hey Eric. I was looking at the labeled pictures for the UI. I can't
>>> figure out where you want me to display the information the player is
>>> claiming to have. How did you want that to work?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:27 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> i like the idea also although playing devil's advocate against my own
>>>> idea, there's something really simple and clean about the $5 dollars for
>>>> 1000 gold idea nick came up with... just because i would never do it 
>>>> doesn't
>>>> mean the market isn't out there... and having more money doesn't make you a
>>>> better player, if you suck you'll just have more money to lose to good
>>>> players.  Maybe we charge $5 dollars for 1000 gold and a month pass into 
>>>> the
>>>> VIP area, that gives value to it.  I think VIP passes should be purchasable
>>>> w/ in game money too though...
>>>>
>>>> i dunno, i guess really the question is how hard will it be to implement
>>>> from a tech viewpoint, and more importantly does the potential profit
>>>> justify the work.  if the answer is yes, then we will find a way to make it
>>>> work from a design standpoint.  :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I feel the same way as you. Honestly, I think paying real money for in
>>>>> game stuff is retarded. Plenty of people out there think it's a great 
>>>>> idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> I really liked the idea of having a VIP lounge where players who paid
>>>>> can go in and they would get a higher payout.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:13 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> well lemme put on my 3 hats
>>>>>>
>>>>>> gamer hat: i hate spending real life cash for in game stuff
>>>>>> designer hat: i dont like the competitive advantage real life cash
>>>>>> gives to people with those resources over regular gamers
>>>>>> capitalist hat: if people are stupid enough to give us $ for pirate
>>>>>> dice gold, then let them *exhales cuban cigar smoke*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> but i guess even if people find out how to get in game money for
>>>>>>> free, we'd still get some people buyin it so shrug
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i would only consider it if i could use that money for anything in
>>>>>>>> game,  but even then it wouldnt be too hard for someone to make a 
>>>>>>>> program
>>>>>>>> that just edited ram and gave themselves a ton of money (then they 
>>>>>>>> publish
>>>>>>>> that program publicly and lots of people have it)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:33 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i mean we can definitely do it but would you pay real life money
>>>>>>>>> for in game money that you can earn yourself if you can't spend that 
>>>>>>>>> in-game
>>>>>>>>> money on anything?  that is a legit question, im not shooting the 
>>>>>>>>> idea down,
>>>>>>>>> im just saying is it worth our effort of setting it up? what will be 
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> motivation to buy?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Those are all nice features, but it seems pretty out of scope.  I
>>>>>>>>>> just meant a minor suggestion of like, "$5 buys you 100 gold", etc.  
>>>>>>>>>> Sorry
>>>>>>>>>> for the tangent.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:24 PM, eric drewes 
>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> oh yeah, cashing in game money for real life money is a terrible
>>>>>>>>>>> idea, i was just saying thats the only reason I personally would 
>>>>>>>>>>> pay real
>>>>>>>>>>> life money for in game money.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> man, its rough.  obviously my gamer instincts are telling me,
>>>>>>>>>>> "hell no" to a pay real $ for in game money system.  its my opinion 
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> people ebay ruined gemstone, it ruined it for me as a player 
>>>>>>>>>>> because i had a
>>>>>>>>>>> hard time spending gold i earned in game on in game stuff because i 
>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>> only think of it translated to real life money - like lets say i 
>>>>>>>>>>> kill
>>>>>>>>>>> monsters for a month and earn 4 million gold, i think hey i'd like 
>>>>>>>>>>> a new
>>>>>>>>>>> sword or i could sell it on ebay for 60 bucks... and conversely, 
>>>>>>>>>>> the people
>>>>>>>>>>> who had $$$ to spend bought all the money and all the nice items 
>>>>>>>>>>> and ruined
>>>>>>>>>>> the economy. Basically it creates an in-balance between the 
>>>>>>>>>>> straight up
>>>>>>>>>>> gamers who want to earn everything the right way, and rich assholes 
>>>>>>>>>>> who will
>>>>>>>>>>> fork over $$$ to cheat the system.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am slightly happier with maybe making the multiplayer part of
>>>>>>>>>>> the game a tiered subscription system if we want to monetize it 
>>>>>>>>>>> that way,
>>>>>>>>>>> where different levels cost different monthly fees and unlock new 
>>>>>>>>>>> areas or
>>>>>>>>>>> like VIP sections of existing games where maybe the odds are easier 
>>>>>>>>>>> or maybe
>>>>>>>>>>> if you're a paid gamer, you get a daily allowance of gold or 
>>>>>>>>>>> something...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am
>>>>>>>>>>>> cool with charging real life cash for pirate dice money"
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What if it was for "in game money", not specifically pirate dice
>>>>>>>>>>>> money?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And im sure you are on the same page as me but i think being
>>>>>>>>>>>> able to cash out in game money for real life money is a bad move.  
>>>>>>>>>>>> it would
>>>>>>>>>>>> take sooo much work to get the security right and like get some 
>>>>>>>>>>>> kind of
>>>>>>>>>>>> payment gateway working etc.  Like you said it would make us a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> gambling
>>>>>>>>>>>> website, and doin that takes a lot of work for something really 
>>>>>>>>>>>> outside of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the scope of what we are trying to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> farmville makes over $20,000 a month on people spending REAL
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cash for ingame money to buy tractors and such.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Imagine that, Pirate Dice gambling for real money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:47 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cool with charging real life cash for pirate dice money.  we 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could even make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an exclusive VIP club for "paying" customers - but i have to be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honest and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say... i am not sure why people would pay for money in game 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unless they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could convert that money back into IRL cash... and that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obviously would make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us a gambling site :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gold in games like WoW is worth real life money because the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> demand for gold in the game is really high and there's a lot 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you can do with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that money that gives it value... i just dont know if that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> translates here quite yet, but possibly in the future!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think there is a difference between paying for content and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paying for stuff that is available to everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the player has to spend timea mini game to earn money.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The player should be able to have an alternative to earning 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money. Not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone will want to play that mini game. In addition to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minigame variety I think another way to earn money could be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowing the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players to spend real money and save time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To me, paying for content would be more like paying for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> patch or an additional character.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well i was just bringin it up cause i know eric hates games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where you have to pay for content.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This may be different though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, it would be nice to be able to make a lil stream of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money this way yeah (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VIP anyone?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thought for allowing buyable money is that you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can flag players who buy money and only allow them to play 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players who buy money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like the newer ideas going into pirate dice. I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game will have better flow and be more of its own 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also like the idea of letting people spend real money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on games. I think it opens of your audience to a wider 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> range of adult
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players. There are plenty of people out there who would 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather spend a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bucks in real life than play a repetitive mini game to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> earn money. So why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allow both? After enough time has passed on the game 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> servers there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough money in circulation that it would not matter as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much to game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a fan of generating money. :T
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but, dunno how eric feels about that... it could ruin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some stuff about the game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that would be a good way to generate some revenue :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Give people the option to buy gold with real monies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds like a good solution eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So if there are 3 private dice that means 3 rounds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of play, so you have to have 3x of ante? (or is it 4 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rounds?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any case you would have to have either 3x or 4x
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ante (depending on how many rounds of betting 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are cause i am dumb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right now lol) and if you don't you can't play?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, sounds great to me, good way to plug the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kent you have it exactly right i think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan - that is a good question... we could do it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like regular poker where it creates a side pot for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people to continue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting and the person that is out of money would 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just win the main pot if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he wins, and the second place person would get the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> side pot... but that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems clumsy to me.  I would actually say we should 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just make it that if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone doesn't have enough money to buy in for an 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entire game, they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disqualified and kicked from the table until they 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you enter the pirate dice area, you start off with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an amount of gold and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's 3 games of pirate dice going, 1 with a low 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante, 1 with a medium and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then a high stakes game.  We could also have a "loan 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shark" NPC who offers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to loan small amounts of money at high interest, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what i was thinking was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you run out of $$$ completely, we have a 2nd mini 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game in the area that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can earn you cash that is free.  I was thinking it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be like, you could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work as a bartender and the drink buyer gives you a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tip and we could make a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mini bar tending game, or you have to go in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backroom and catch all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rats and they give you a fixed amount per rat... 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that way, no one is ever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuck and completely unable to play...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what happens if the ante comes up and you are out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of money?  IE when you are "all in"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty solid as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best games are the most simple. Easy to play, hard 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to master.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So to change the game from how it is to the new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> model we would.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player, first round starts with 3 visible dice 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolled and 1 hidden dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) remove raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If players still state what they have in their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hand to stay in the game and call you would need 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to state that you have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> greater than or equal hand than the person who 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called before you right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably best to go without for now. I could see 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it potentially working in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2v2 version of pirate dice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making the rest of the areas you need, i wasn't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure how to proceed so i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figured i'd better talk it out first.  I think 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have the right idea but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here's a way i was thinking it could work:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) each player ante's up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolls 1 hidden dice.  (I think these amounts may 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change when we play test
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for balance, but this is an ok starting point)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 coin and and claims a combination to open the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can either put 1 coin in and claim to top the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous person's combination,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or fold out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  2nd hidden dice is rolled, also the amount to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stay in the game up a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pre-decided increment.  For example it could go 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up 1 each round, or double
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each round, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or 3 hidden dice have been rolled, if 3 have been 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolled and its gone around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to everyone else, everyone reveals their dice and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the highest combination
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a rule to call bluff, we kinda stopped callign it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or it was infrequent while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we were playing the actual game.  I think pirate 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice might not need calling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a bluff at all, really when playing through just 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be ante'ing up and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continuing on you're essentially "calling their 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff"  - just like regular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> poker a bluffer can keep bluffing all the way 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> till the reveal, after that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the proof is in the pudding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff would work anyhow.  One way I was thinking 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was at any time, a person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can call "bluff" on the previous person's claim 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead of claiming for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their round, they still have to pay the ante-in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fee to call a bluff.  Once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff is called, the accused reveals his dice, if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he was lying, he forfeits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and pays a liars fee equivalent to the round's 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante.  Likewise, if the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accused was telling the truth, he forfeits and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the accuser has to pay a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tattler's fee equivalent to the round's ante.  my 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem with any of these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is it enables a really easy kingmaker for people 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working together, but i am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely all ears if anyone has an idea how to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make it work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> increases each round. be affected by the blinds? 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you still want a large
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and small blinds?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UI screen looks nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mods and see what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raising?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public and then the next 3 dice to come out 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one turn at a time?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  the betting thing, i can't remember what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we did when we played it, i wish i could.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you can't bet, you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out.  Is it that if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you want to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out?  Just tryin to wrap 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have progressively higher combinations of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice, basically what you said is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly right - if you want to stay in you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to have or claim to have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better combination of dice than the person 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before you,  so essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're betting more and trying to bluff them 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out with every turn.  Raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and making bets is redundant to the premise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to misty and i'm pretty sure we didn't bet 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything when we played, we had a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point system where if you won you got 2 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> points, folded you got 0, if you got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called for bluffing you lost 3 points, etc.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i don't really remember
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though... but i dont think we bet...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> per round, its simple and easy while still 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping a high risk/reward for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players who continue playing - I am, of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, open to other ideas though!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was just working through playing pirate 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice in my head to make the UI and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i realized that betting, etc. overly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complicates when you're essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting/bluffing anyways whenever you claim 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have a better hand on your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had forgotten that aspect of the game (the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public dice).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we did when we played it, i wish i could.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you can't bet, you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out.  Is it that if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you want to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the last person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out?  Just tryin to wrap 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to list the players in the room (since 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there may be more players than are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sitting down).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labeled version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to work out some kinks in the game 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flow before i finalize things...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game from a multiplayer perspective and I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a problem w/ the standard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raise/call format of poker in relevance 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to this game.  Basically the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gameplay comes from divulging the type 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and combination of dice you have, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since you tell everyone what you have (or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what you're pretending to have)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every turn, betting doesn't work in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conventional way.  Basically I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking that rather than escalating the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bets manually as players, I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there should be an "ante" to stay in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever it is your turn, so you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the choice of either folding out of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game or putting in a pre-defined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante, telling everyone what you have (or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are pretending to have) that either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beats, or matches the previous player, or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calling the bluff of the previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player.  I realize this is a slight 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deviation from the current design but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think it will function much more cleanly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and it makes more sense when put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a game perspective.  Basically we 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can have multiple stakes, so there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be a high stakes game where its 10 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gold a round, or a low stakes game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where it's 1 gold per round, etc. or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps the amount of ante to stay in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> per round escalated (i.e. it's low in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first couple of rounds but when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get into the 5th or 6th round the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stakes get higher making it a riskier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing (and thus more fun!) to continue or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff or call a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this was a bit of omission when Alan and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I were trying to remember how we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> played the game, there was some publicly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed amount of dice, either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice that are shared by all players or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe each players first 3 dice are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed, this will give something for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other players to try to judge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether the person is bluffing or not and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to try to calculate the odds.  The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game was originally conceived of as a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination of the liar's dice game on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pirates of the carribean and texas 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hold'em, so I am pretty sure having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that visible dice was part of what made 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game fun and playable.  Sorry it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is hard to explain via e-mail without 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having dice in front of me but what i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean is this:   we could either have 3 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice that are shared amongst all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players (like the flop in texas hold'em)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once everyone ante's up - let's say a 3, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a 6 and a 2 are rolled.  Now the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players roll their first 2 hidden dice.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Player one sees he rolled a 3 and a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 in his personal hidden dice, and claims 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he has a pair of 3's.  The rest of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the players can see all he needed to do 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was roll one 3 himself in order to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get that pair of 3's so he is probably 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not bluffing.  The game escalates
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where every players first 3 dice are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible to all players, and all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subsequence dice rolls are hidden.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these games is figuring out the odds, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to get lucky on dice rolls and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to guess if other people are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing.  Part of all three of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things is giving people hints to try to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess at what the other person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> REALLY has.  Having the visible dice is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that tantalizing hint. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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