[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI

  • From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 21:46:47 -0700

there is no native support in the game for a drop down, but one could be
scripted.

Up to kent if he wants to go through that or not hahaha

basically kent how it would work (as i see it) is the drop down menu
selection is secretly a button.  When you click it, a window opens up with
the options on it, right under the "button".  When they click on a
selection, it changes the text of the selection and closes the lil window.

something like that...

up to you if you wanna deal with that or not :P
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:41 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> ok so this design is taking a little bit longer than anticipated but we
> have all the kinks worked out, i have the design finished but i still need
> to slice it up for kent into the individual pieces he needs for the game
>
> basically when you "call" a pop up window will come up letting you choose
> either a straight or a combination of dice, i actually am rethinking how i
> have this part laid out - hey guys can we do a drop down for this? not sure
> if that is a possibility...
>
> anyways, just letting you know where we're at here. :)
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 7:30 AM, eric <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> I will update it with the new information we discussed design-wise and
>> send it to you sliced up with the individual pieces you'll need when I get
>> home from work. I have storyboards for you too to help also
>>
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: *Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>> *Date: *Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:51:58 -0700
>> *To: *<project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> *Subject: *[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI
>>
>> Hey Eric. I was looking at the labeled pictures for the UI. I can't figure
>> out where you want me to display the information the player is claiming to
>> have. How did you want that to work?
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:27 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> i like the idea also although playing devil's advocate against my own
>>> idea, there's something really simple and clean about the $5 dollars for
>>> 1000 gold idea nick came up with... just because i would never do it doesn't
>>> mean the market isn't out there... and having more money doesn't make you a
>>> better player, if you suck you'll just have more money to lose to good
>>> players.  Maybe we charge $5 dollars for 1000 gold and a month pass into the
>>> VIP area, that gives value to it.  I think VIP passes should be purchasable
>>> w/ in game money too though...
>>>
>>> i dunno, i guess really the question is how hard will it be to implement
>>> from a tech viewpoint, and more importantly does the potential profit
>>> justify the work.  if the answer is yes, then we will find a way to make it
>>> work from a design standpoint.  :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I feel the same way as you. Honestly, I think paying real money for in
>>>> game stuff is retarded. Plenty of people out there think it's a great idea.
>>>>
>>>> I really liked the idea of having a VIP lounge where players who paid
>>>> can go in and they would get a higher payout.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:13 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> well lemme put on my 3 hats
>>>>>
>>>>> gamer hat: i hate spending real life cash for in game stuff
>>>>> designer hat: i dont like the competitive advantage real life cash
>>>>> gives to people with those resources over regular gamers
>>>>> capitalist hat: if people are stupid enough to give us $ for pirate
>>>>> dice gold, then let them *exhales cuban cigar smoke*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> but i guess even if people find out how to get in game money for free,
>>>>>> we'd still get some people buyin it so shrug
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i would only consider it if i could use that money for anything in
>>>>>>> game,  but even then it wouldnt be too hard for someone to make a 
>>>>>>> program
>>>>>>> that just edited ram and gave themselves a ton of money (then they 
>>>>>>> publish
>>>>>>> that program publicly and lots of people have it)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:33 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i mean we can definitely do it but would you pay real life money for
>>>>>>>> in game money that you can earn yourself if you can't spend that 
>>>>>>>> in-game
>>>>>>>> money on anything?  that is a legit question, im not shooting the idea 
>>>>>>>> down,
>>>>>>>> im just saying is it worth our effort of setting it up? what will be 
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> motivation to buy?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Nick Klotz 
>>>>>>>> <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Those are all nice features, but it seems pretty out of scope.  I
>>>>>>>>> just meant a minor suggestion of like, "$5 buys you 100 gold", etc.  
>>>>>>>>> Sorry
>>>>>>>>> for the tangent.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:24 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> oh yeah, cashing in game money for real life money is a terrible
>>>>>>>>>> idea, i was just saying thats the only reason I personally would pay 
>>>>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>>>>> life money for in game money.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> man, its rough.  obviously my gamer instincts are telling me,
>>>>>>>>>> "hell no" to a pay real $ for in game money system.  its my opinion 
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> people ebay ruined gemstone, it ruined it for me as a player because 
>>>>>>>>>> i had a
>>>>>>>>>> hard time spending gold i earned in game on in game stuff because i 
>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>> only think of it translated to real life money - like lets say i kill
>>>>>>>>>> monsters for a month and earn 4 million gold, i think hey i'd like a 
>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>> sword or i could sell it on ebay for 60 bucks... and conversely, the 
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> who had $$$ to spend bought all the money and all the nice items and 
>>>>>>>>>> ruined
>>>>>>>>>> the economy. Basically it creates an in-balance between the straight 
>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>> gamers who want to earn everything the right way, and rich assholes 
>>>>>>>>>> who will
>>>>>>>>>> fork over $$$ to cheat the system.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am slightly happier with maybe making the multiplayer part of
>>>>>>>>>> the game a tiered subscription system if we want to monetize it that 
>>>>>>>>>> way,
>>>>>>>>>> where different levels cost different monthly fees and unlock new 
>>>>>>>>>> areas or
>>>>>>>>>> like VIP sections of existing games where maybe the odds are easier 
>>>>>>>>>> or maybe
>>>>>>>>>> if you're a paid gamer, you get a daily allowance of gold or 
>>>>>>>>>> something...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am
>>>>>>>>>>> cool with charging real life cash for pirate dice money"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What if it was for "in game money", not specifically pirate dice
>>>>>>>>>>> money?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And im sure you are on the same page as me but i think being able
>>>>>>>>>>> to cash out in game money for real life money is a bad move.  it 
>>>>>>>>>>> would take
>>>>>>>>>>> sooo much work to get the security right and like get some kind of 
>>>>>>>>>>> payment
>>>>>>>>>>> gateway working etc.  Like you said it would make us a gambling 
>>>>>>>>>>> website, and
>>>>>>>>>>> doin that takes a lot of work for something really outside of the 
>>>>>>>>>>> scope of
>>>>>>>>>>> what we are trying to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> farmville makes over $20,000 a month on people spending REAL
>>>>>>>>>>>> cash for ingame money to buy tractors and such.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Imagine that, Pirate Dice gambling for real money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:47 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cool with charging real life cash for pirate dice money.  we 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could even make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an exclusive VIP club for "paying" customers - but i have to be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honest and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say... i am not sure why people would pay for money in game 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unless they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could convert that money back into IRL cash... and that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obviously would make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us a gambling site :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gold in games like WoW is worth real life money because the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> demand for gold in the game is really high and there's a lot you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can do with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that money that gives it value... i just dont know if that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> translates here quite yet, but possibly in the future!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think there is a difference between paying for content and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paying for stuff that is available to everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the player has to spend timea mini game to earn money. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player should be able to have an alternative to earning money. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will want to play that mini game. In addition to making more 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minigame
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> variety I think another way to earn money could be allowing the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spend real money and save time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To me, paying for content would be more like paying for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> patch or an additional character.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well i was just bringin it up cause i know eric hates games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where you have to pay for content.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This may be different though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, it would be nice to be able to make a lil stream of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money this way yeah (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VIP anyone?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thought for allowing buyable money is that you can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flag players who buy money and only allow them to play with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who buy money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like the newer ideas going into pirate dice. I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game will have better flow and be more of its own 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also like the idea of letting people spend real money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on games. I think it opens of your audience to a wider 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> range of adult
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players. There are plenty of people out there who would 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather spend a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bucks in real life than play a repetitive mini game to earn 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money. So why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allow both? After enough time has passed on the game 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> servers there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough money in circulation that it would not matter as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much to game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a fan of generating money. :T
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but, dunno how eric feels about that... it could ruin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some stuff about the game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that would be a good way to generate some revenue :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Give people the option to buy gold with real monies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds like a good solution eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So if there are 3 private dice that means 3 rounds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of play, so you have to have 3x of ante? (or is it 4 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rounds?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any case you would have to have either 3x or 4x
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ante (depending on how many rounds of betting 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are cause i am dumb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right now lol) and if you don't you can't play?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, sounds great to me, good way to plug the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kent you have it exactly right i think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan - that is a good question... we could do it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like regular poker where it creates a side pot for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people to continue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting and the person that is out of money would 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just win the main pot if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he wins, and the second place person would get the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> side pot... but that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems clumsy to me.  I would actually say we should 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just make it that if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone doesn't have enough money to buy in for an 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entire game, they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disqualified and kicked from the table until they 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you enter the pirate dice area, you start off with an 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount of gold and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's 3 games of pirate dice going, 1 with a low 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante, 1 with a medium and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then a high stakes game.  We could also have a "loan 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shark" NPC who offers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to loan small amounts of money at high interest, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what i was thinking was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you run out of $$$ completely, we have a 2nd mini 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game in the area that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can earn you cash that is free.  I was thinking it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be like, you could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work as a bartender and the drink buyer gives you a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tip and we could make a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mini bar tending game, or you have to go in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backroom and catch all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rats and they give you a fixed amount per rat... that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, no one is ever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuck and completely unable to play...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what happens if the ante comes up and you are out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of money?  IE when you are "all in"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty solid as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best games are the most simple. Easy to play, hard 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to master.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So to change the game from how it is to the new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> model we would.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player, first round starts with 3 visible dice 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolled and 1 hidden dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) remove raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If players still state what they have in their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hand to stay in the game and call you would need to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state that you have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> greater than or equal hand than the person who 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called before you right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably best to go without for now. I could see it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potentially working in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2v2 version of pirate dice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making the rest of the areas you need, i wasn't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure how to proceed so i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figured i'd better talk it out first.  I think you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have the right idea but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here's a way i was thinking it could work:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) each player ante's up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolls 1 hidden dice.  (I think these amounts may 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change when we play test
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for balance, but this is an ok starting point)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 coin and and claims a combination to open the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can either put 1 coin in and claim to top the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous person's combination,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or fold out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  2nd hidden dice is rolled, also the amount to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stay in the game up a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pre-decided increment.  For example it could go up 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 each round, or double
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each round, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or 3 hidden dice have been rolled, if 3 have been 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolled and its gone around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to everyone else, everyone reveals their dice and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the highest combination
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a rule to call bluff, we kinda stopped callign it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or it was infrequent while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we were playing the actual game.  I think pirate 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice might not need calling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a bluff at all, really when playing through just 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be ante'ing up and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continuing on you're essentially "calling their 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff"  - just like regular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> poker a bluffer can keep bluffing all the way till 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reveal, after that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the proof is in the pudding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff would work anyhow.  One way I was thinking 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was at any time, a person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can call "bluff" on the previous person's claim 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead of claiming for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their round, they still have to pay the ante-in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fee to call a bluff.  Once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff is called, the accused reveals his dice, if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he was lying, he forfeits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and pays a liars fee equivalent to the round's 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante.  Likewise, if the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accused was telling the truth, he forfeits and the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accuser has to pay a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tattler's fee equivalent to the round's ante.  my 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem with any of these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is it enables a really easy kingmaker for people 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working together, but i am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely all ears if anyone has an idea how to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make it work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> increases each round. be affected by the blinds? 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you still want a large
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and small blinds?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UI screen looks nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mods and see what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raising?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public and then the next 3 dice to come out one 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn at a time?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  the betting thing, i can't remember what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we did when we played it, i wish i could.  If 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you can't bet, you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out.  Is it that if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you want to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out?  Just tryin to wrap my 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have progressively higher combinations of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice, basically what you said is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly right - if you want to stay in you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to have or claim to have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better combination of dice than the person 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before you,  so essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're betting more and trying to bluff them 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out with every turn.  Raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and making bets is redundant to the premise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> misty and i'm pretty sure we didn't bet 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything when we played, we had a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point system where if you won you got 2 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> points, folded you got 0, if you got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called for bluffing you lost 3 points, etc.  i 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't really remember
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though... but i dont think we bet...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> per round, its simple and easy while still 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping a high risk/reward for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players who continue playing - I am, of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, open to other ideas though!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was just working through playing pirate dice 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in my head to make the UI and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i realized that betting, etc. overly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complicates when you're essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting/bluffing anyways whenever you claim 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have a better hand on your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had forgotten that aspect of the game (the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public dice).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we did when we played it, i wish i could.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you can't bet, you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out.  Is it that if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you want to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out?  Just tryin to wrap 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to list the players in the room (since there 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may be more players than are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sitting down).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labeled version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to work out some kinks in the game 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flow before i finalize things...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game from a multiplayer perspective and I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a problem w/ the standard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raise/call format of poker in relevance to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this game.  Basically the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gameplay comes from divulging the type and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination of dice you have, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since you tell everyone what you have (or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what you're pretending to have)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every turn, betting doesn't work in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conventional way.  Basically I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking that rather than escalating the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bets manually as players, I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there should be an "ante" to stay in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever it is your turn, so you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the choice of either folding out of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game or putting in a pre-defined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante, telling everyone what you have (or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are pretending to have) that either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beats, or matches the previous player, or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calling the bluff of the previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player.  I realize this is a slight 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deviation from the current design but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think it will function much more cleanly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and it makes more sense when put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a game perspective.  Basically we can 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have multiple stakes, so there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be a high stakes game where its 10 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gold a round, or a low stakes game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where it's 1 gold per round, etc. or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps the amount of ante to stay in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> per round escalated (i.e. it's low in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first couple of rounds but when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get into the 5th or 6th round the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stakes get higher making it a riskier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing (and thus more fun!) to continue or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff or call a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this was a bit of omission when Alan and I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were trying to remember how we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> played the game, there was some publicly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed amount of dice, either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice that are shared by all players or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe each players first 3 dice are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed, this will give something for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other players to try to judge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether the person is bluffing or not and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to try to calculate the odds.  The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game was originally conceived of as a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination of the liar's dice game on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pirates of the carribean and texas 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hold'em, so I am pretty sure having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that visible dice was part of what made 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game fun and playable.  Sorry it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is hard to explain via e-mail without 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having dice in front of me but what i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean is this:   we could either have 3 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice that are shared amongst all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players (like the flop in texas hold'em)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once everyone ante's up - let's say a 3, a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6 and a 2 are rolled.  Now the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players roll their first 2 hidden dice.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Player one sees he rolled a 3 and a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 in his personal hidden dice, and claims 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he has a pair of 3's.  The rest of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the players can see all he needed to do 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was roll one 3 himself in order to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get that pair of 3's so he is probably not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing.  The game escalates
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where every players first 3 dice are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible to all players, and all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subsequence dice rolls are hidden.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these games is figuring out the odds, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to get lucky on dice rolls and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to guess if other people are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing.  Part of all three of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things is giving people hints to try to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess at what the other person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> REALLY has.  Having the visible dice is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that tantalizing hint. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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