[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI

  • From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 00:41:08 -0400

ok so this design is taking a little bit longer than anticipated but we have
all the kinks worked out, i have the design finished but i still need to
slice it up for kent into the individual pieces he needs for the game

basically when you "call" a pop up window will come up letting you choose
either a straight or a combination of dice, i actually am rethinking how i
have this part laid out - hey guys can we do a drop down for this? not sure
if that is a possibility...

anyways, just letting you know where we're at here. :)

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 7:30 AM, eric <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> I will update it with the new information we discussed design-wise and send
> it to you sliced up with the individual pieces you'll need when I get home
> from work. I have storyboards for you too to help also
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> ------------------------------
> *From: * Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
> *Date: *Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:51:58 -0700
> *To: *<project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> *Subject: *[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI
>
> Hey Eric. I was looking at the labeled pictures for the UI. I can't figure
> out where you want me to display the information the player is claiming to
> have. How did you want that to work?
>
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:27 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> i like the idea also although playing devil's advocate against my own
>> idea, there's something really simple and clean about the $5 dollars for
>> 1000 gold idea nick came up with... just because i would never do it doesn't
>> mean the market isn't out there... and having more money doesn't make you a
>> better player, if you suck you'll just have more money to lose to good
>> players.  Maybe we charge $5 dollars for 1000 gold and a month pass into the
>> VIP area, that gives value to it.  I think VIP passes should be purchasable
>> w/ in game money too though...
>>
>> i dunno, i guess really the question is how hard will it be to implement
>> from a tech viewpoint, and more importantly does the potential profit
>> justify the work.  if the answer is yes, then we will find a way to make it
>> work from a design standpoint.  :)
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> I feel the same way as you. Honestly, I think paying real money for in
>>> game stuff is retarded. Plenty of people out there think it's a great idea.
>>>
>>> I really liked the idea of having a VIP lounge where players who paid can
>>> go in and they would get a higher payout.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:13 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> well lemme put on my 3 hats
>>>>
>>>> gamer hat: i hate spending real life cash for in game stuff
>>>> designer hat: i dont like the competitive advantage real life cash gives
>>>> to people with those resources over regular gamers
>>>> capitalist hat: if people are stupid enough to give us $ for pirate dice
>>>> gold, then let them *exhales cuban cigar smoke*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> but i guess even if people find out how to get in game money for free,
>>>>> we'd still get some people buyin it so shrug
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> i would only consider it if i could use that money for anything in
>>>>>> game,  but even then it wouldnt be too hard for someone to make a program
>>>>>> that just edited ram and gave themselves a ton of money (then they 
>>>>>> publish
>>>>>> that program publicly and lots of people have it)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:33 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i mean we can definitely do it but would you pay real life money for
>>>>>>> in game money that you can earn yourself if you can't spend that in-game
>>>>>>> money on anything?  that is a legit question, im not shooting the idea 
>>>>>>> down,
>>>>>>> im just saying is it worth our effort of setting it up? what will be 
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> motivation to buy?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Nick Klotz 
>>>>>>> <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Those are all nice features, but it seems pretty out of scope.  I
>>>>>>>> just meant a minor suggestion of like, "$5 buys you 100 gold", etc.  
>>>>>>>> Sorry
>>>>>>>> for the tangent.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:24 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> oh yeah, cashing in game money for real life money is a terrible
>>>>>>>>> idea, i was just saying thats the only reason I personally would pay 
>>>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>>>> life money for in game money.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> man, its rough.  obviously my gamer instincts are telling me, "hell
>>>>>>>>> no" to a pay real $ for in game money system.  its my opinion that 
>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>> ebay ruined gemstone, it ruined it for me as a player because i had a 
>>>>>>>>> hard
>>>>>>>>> time spending gold i earned in game on in game stuff because i could 
>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>> think of it translated to real life money - like lets say i kill 
>>>>>>>>> monsters
>>>>>>>>> for a month and earn 4 million gold, i think hey i'd like a new sword 
>>>>>>>>> or i
>>>>>>>>> could sell it on ebay for 60 bucks... and conversely, the people who 
>>>>>>>>> had $$$
>>>>>>>>> to spend bought all the money and all the nice items and ruined the 
>>>>>>>>> economy.
>>>>>>>>> Basically it creates an in-balance between the straight up gamers who 
>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>> to earn everything the right way, and rich assholes who will fork 
>>>>>>>>> over $$$
>>>>>>>>> to cheat the system.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am slightly happier with maybe making the multiplayer part of the
>>>>>>>>> game a tiered subscription system if we want to monetize it that way, 
>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>> different levels cost different monthly fees and unlock new areas or 
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> VIP sections of existing games where maybe the odds are easier or 
>>>>>>>>> maybe if
>>>>>>>>> you're a paid gamer, you get a daily allowance of gold or something...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Alan Wolfe 
>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am
>>>>>>>>>> cool with charging real life cash for pirate dice money"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What if it was for "in game money", not specifically pirate dice
>>>>>>>>>> money?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And im sure you are on the same page as me but i think being able
>>>>>>>>>> to cash out in game money for real life money is a bad move.  it 
>>>>>>>>>> would take
>>>>>>>>>> sooo much work to get the security right and like get some kind of 
>>>>>>>>>> payment
>>>>>>>>>> gateway working etc.  Like you said it would make us a gambling 
>>>>>>>>>> website, and
>>>>>>>>>> doin that takes a lot of work for something really outside of the 
>>>>>>>>>> scope of
>>>>>>>>>> what we are trying to do.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> farmville makes over $20,000 a month on people spending REAL cash
>>>>>>>>>>> for ingame money to buy tractors and such.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Imagine that, Pirate Dice gambling for real money
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:47 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cool with charging real life cash for pirate dice money.  we 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> could even make
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an exclusive VIP club for "paying" customers - but i have to be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> honest and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> say... i am not sure why people would pay for money in game 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unless they
>>>>>>>>>>>>> could convert that money back into IRL cash... and that obviously 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would make
>>>>>>>>>>>>> us a gambling site :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> gold in games like WoW is worth real life money because the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> demand for gold in the game is really high and there's a lot you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can do with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that money that gives it value... i just dont know if that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle
>>>>>>>>>>>>> translates here quite yet, but possibly in the future!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think there is a difference between paying for content and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paying for stuff that is available to everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the player has to spend timea mini game to earn money. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player should be able to have an alternative to earning money. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will want to play that mini game. In addition to making more 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minigame
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> variety I think another way to earn money could be allowing the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spend real money and save time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To me, paying for content would be more like paying for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> patch or an additional character.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well i was just bringin it up cause i know eric hates games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where you have to pay for content.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This may be different though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, it would be nice to be able to make a lil stream of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money this way yeah (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VIP anyone?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thought for allowing buyable money is that you can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flag players who buy money and only allow them to play with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who buy money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like the newer ideas going into pirate dice. I think the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game will have better flow and be more of its own entity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also like the idea of letting people spend real money on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games. I think it opens of your audience to a wider range of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adult players.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are plenty of people out there who would rather spend 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a few bucks in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real life than play a repetitive mini game to earn money. So 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why allow both?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After enough time has passed on the game servers there will 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be enough money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in circulation that it would not matter as much to game 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a fan of generating money. :T
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but, dunno how eric feels about that... it could ruin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some stuff about the game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that would be a good way to generate some revenue :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Give people the option to buy gold with real monies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds like a good solution eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So if there are 3 private dice that means 3 rounds of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play, so you have to have 3x of ante? (or is it 4 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rounds?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any case you would have to have either 3x or 4x
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ante (depending on how many rounds of betting there 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are cause i am dumb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right now lol) and if you don't you can't play?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, sounds great to me, good way to plug the hole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kent you have it exactly right i think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan - that is a good question... we could do it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like regular poker where it creates a side pot for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people to continue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting and the person that is out of money would just 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> win the main pot if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he wins, and the second place person would get the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> side pot... but that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems clumsy to me.  I would actually say we should 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just make it that if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone doesn't have enough money to buy in for an 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entire game, they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disqualified and kicked from the table until they have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you enter the pirate dice area, you start off with an 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount of gold and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's 3 games of pirate dice going, 1 with a low 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante, 1 with a medium and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then a high stakes game.  We could also have a "loan 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shark" NPC who offers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to loan small amounts of money at high interest, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what i was thinking was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you run out of $$$ completely, we have a 2nd mini 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game in the area that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can earn you cash that is free.  I was thinking it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be like, you could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work as a bartender and the drink buyer gives you a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tip and we could make a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mini bar tending game, or you have to go in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backroom and catch all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rats and they give you a fixed amount per rat... that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, no one is ever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuck and completely unable to play...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what happens if the ante comes up and you are out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of money?  IE when you are "all in"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds pretty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solid as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best games are the most simple. Easy to play, hard 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to master.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So to change the game from how it is to the new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> model we would.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player, first round starts with 3 visible dice 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolled and 1 hidden dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) remove raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If players still state what they have in their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hand to stay in the game and call you would need to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state that you have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> greater than or equal hand than the person who 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called before you right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably best to go without for now. I could see it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potentially working in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2v2 version of pirate dice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making the rest of the areas you need, i wasn't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure how to proceed so i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figured i'd better talk it out first.  I think you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have the right idea but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here's a way i was thinking it could work:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) each player ante's up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolls 1 hidden dice.  (I think these amounts may 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change when we play test
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for balance, but this is an ok starting point)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coin and and claims a combination to open the match
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can either put 1 coin in and claim to top the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous person's combination,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or fold out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  2nd hidden dice is rolled, also the amount to stay 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the game up a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pre-decided increment.  For example it could go up 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 each round, or double
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each round, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or 3 hidden dice have been rolled, if 3 have been 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolled and its gone around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to everyone else, everyone reveals their dice and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the highest combination
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rule to call bluff, we kinda stopped callign it or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it was infrequent while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we were playing the actual game.  I think pirate 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice might not need calling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a bluff at all, really when playing through just be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante'ing up and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continuing on you're essentially "calling their 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff"  - just like regular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> poker a bluffer can keep bluffing all the way till 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reveal, after that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the proof is in the pudding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would work anyhow.  One way I was thinking was at 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any time, a person can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call "bluff" on the previous person's claim instead 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of claiming for their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, they still have to pay the ante-in fee to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call a bluff.  Once bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is called, the accused reveals his dice, if he was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lying, he forfeits and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pays a liars fee equivalent to the round's ante.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Likewise, if the accused
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was telling the truth, he forfeits and the accuser 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has to pay a tattler's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fee equivalent to the round's ante.  my problem 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with any of these is it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enables a really easy kingmaker for people working 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> together, but i am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely all ears if anyone has an idea how to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make it work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante increases
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each round. be affected by the blinds? Do you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still want a large and small
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blinds?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UI screen looks nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mods and see what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raising?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public and then the next 3 dice to come out one 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn at a time?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did when we played it, i wish i could.  If you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't bet, you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out.  Is it that if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you want to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out?  Just tryin to wrap my 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have progressively higher combinations of dice, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically what you said is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly right - if you want to stay in you have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have or claim to have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better combination of dice than the person 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before you,  so essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're betting more and trying to bluff them 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out with every turn.  Raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and making bets is redundant to the premise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> misty and i'm pretty sure we didn't bet 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything when we played, we had a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point system where if you won you got 2 points, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> folded you got 0, if you got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called for bluffing you lost 3 points, etc.  i 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't really remember
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though... but i dont think we bet...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> per round, its simple and easy while still 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping a high risk/reward for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players who continue playing - I am, of course, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open to other ideas though!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was just working through playing pirate dice 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in my head to make the UI and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i realized that betting, etc. overly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complicates when you're essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting/bluffing anyways whenever you claim you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a better hand on your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had forgotten that aspect of the game (the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public dice).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did when we played it, i wish i could.  If 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you can't bet, you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out.  Is it that if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you want to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out?  Just tryin to wrap my 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to list the players in the room (since there 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may be more players than are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sitting down).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labeled version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to work out some kinks in the game 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flow before i finalize things...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game from a multiplayer perspective and I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a problem w/ the standard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raise/call format of poker in relevance to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this game.  Basically the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gameplay comes from divulging the type and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination of dice you have, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since you tell everyone what you have (or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what you're pretending to have)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every turn, betting doesn't work in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conventional way.  Basically I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking that rather than escalating the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bets manually as players, I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there should be an "ante" to stay in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever it is your turn, so you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the choice of either folding out of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game or putting in a pre-defined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante, telling everyone what you have (or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are pretending to have) that either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beats, or matches the previous player, or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calling the bluff of the previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player.  I realize this is a slight 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deviation from the current design but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think it will function much more cleanly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and it makes more sense when put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a game perspective.  Basically we can 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have multiple stakes, so there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be a high stakes game where its 10 gold 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a round, or a low stakes game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where it's 1 gold per round, etc. or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps the amount of ante to stay in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> per round escalated (i.e. it's low in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first couple of rounds but when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get into the 5th or 6th round the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stakes get higher making it a riskier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing (and thus more fun!) to continue or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff or call a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this was a bit of omission when Alan and I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were trying to remember how we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> played the game, there was some publicly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed amount of dice, either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice that are shared by all players or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe each players first 3 dice are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed, this will give something for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other players to try to judge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether the person is bluffing or not and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to try to calculate the odds.  The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game was originally conceived of as a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination of the liar's dice game on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pirates of the carribean and texas hold'em, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so I am pretty sure having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that visible dice was part of what made the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game fun and playable.  Sorry it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is hard to explain via e-mail without 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having dice in front of me but what i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean is this:   we could either have 3 dice 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are shared amongst all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players (like the flop in texas hold'em)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once everyone ante's up - let's say a 3, a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6 and a 2 are rolled.  Now the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players roll their first 2 hidden dice.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Player one sees he rolled a 3 and a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 in his personal hidden dice, and claims 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he has a pair of 3's.  The rest of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the players can see all he needed to do was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roll one 3 himself in order to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get that pair of 3's so he is probably not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing.  The game escalates
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where every players first 3 dice are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible to all players, and all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subsequence dice rolls are hidden.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these games is figuring out the odds, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to get lucky on dice rolls and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to guess if other people are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing.  Part of all three of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things is giving people hints to try to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess at what the other person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> REALLY has.  Having the visible dice is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that tantalizing hint. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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