[project1dev] Re: game narrative structure
- From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 15:00:16 -0400
Do all the worlds have to be played in order like Diablo 2 or will you get
to choose like in FF3?
sorry for the delayed response... the chapters will be played in order like
diablo 2, the free-mode will be like the 2nd half of FF3.
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Matthew Freeland <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> I think we're pretty much in agreement here. Absolutely linear story
> telling in video games = BAD in large doses.
>
> Being able to wander around aimlessly and screwing around in the golden
> saucer for hours on end is requisite.
>
>
> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> I like how Dragon Warrior/Quest 4 does it.
>>
>> But being less linear.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Ah, I think I get what you mean. So these smaller self contained stories
>>> will be like the split story in FF3 or like the acts in Diablo 2. Where it
>>> would be a "full game" with a beginning middle and end with its own
>>> characters and everything. Upon completing one, you will be able to return
>>> to it and replay it. Upon completing the entire game you will unlock a new
>>> mode that takes place 15 years later but the entire world is accessible from
>>> the start, more like Zelda where you can wander around anywhere. Am I right?
>>>
>>> When you return to an already beaten world will you be able to use any
>>> characters? Could I use characters I didn't get from that world? If you
>>> return to a world does the story start over or do you return after it
>>> happened more Fallout 2 after you beat the game
>>>
>>> Do all the worlds have to be played in order like Diablo 2 or will you
>>> get to choose like in FF3?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 10:52 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> right, and the short stories would all be self-contained also so there
>>>> would be a definitive beginning, middle and end. so there'd be story arcs
>>>> in the chapter and then an overall arc telling the whole story. the
>>>> free-mode would be the aftermath
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As I understand it, we could basically create levels, and then form a
>>>>> story around them, and those would tie into a plot altogether. Am I
>>>>> correct?
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, I like the episodic nature of release idea. This will let us
>>>>> concentrate on entire areas as milestones, and help bring our work
>>>>> together in a more cohesive fashion.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:58 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > ok, im thinking about it like this... each chapter is like its own
>>>>> self
>>>>> > contained story where you play through it... think of like an
>>>>> expanded
>>>>> > version of the scenes in ff3 like where Locke has to go to east
>>>>> figaro and
>>>>> > delay the soldiers long enough, etc. etc. and he ends up finding
>>>>> celes and
>>>>> > rescuing her and has to go in disguise and stuff... like that would
>>>>> be a
>>>>> > "chapter" but ours would be longer with a bigger story arc. there'd
>>>>> be like
>>>>> > 5-6 (maybe more, we'd know when we got into them, maybe instead of
>>>>> 5-6 long
>>>>> > ones we could have a ton of short ones, like the opera scene in ff3
>>>>> could be
>>>>> > an example). once you beat all the chapters, you would unlock
>>>>> freemode
>>>>> > which gives you free reign to explore the entire world and find
>>>>> adventures
>>>>> > like in the second half of ff3.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Three key notes to this would be:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > you take your hero and recruited party into the chapters and you
>>>>> could
>>>>> > replay them (with characters/items that are found IN the chapter not
>>>>> able to
>>>>> > be brought in). this would be cool cuz there's things like the opera
>>>>> scene
>>>>> > or the scene where you are sabin/cyan and recruit shadow and go
>>>>> through the
>>>>> > enemy camp and then the ghost train that i'd save before hand so i
>>>>> could
>>>>> > replay them. also i picture we could have SOME randomized treasure
>>>>> ala
>>>>> > diablo 2 so people could make "runs" this would be a way for people
>>>>> to grind
>>>>> > also. we'd balance it basically by making the levels progressively
>>>>> more
>>>>> > challenging and also i view the DIFFICULTY of the game being set
>>>>> where
>>>>> > simply leveling won't be enough to destroy levels, even capped out
>>>>> you'd
>>>>> > have to be smart and savvy and strategize properly to survive.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > the second thing would be that once you finished the chapters you'd
>>>>> unlock
>>>>> > freemode which basically gives you the whole world to explore but
>>>>> it'd be
>>>>> > 10-15 years in the future (we'd explain it in the final story like
>>>>> you get
>>>>> > caught in the null realm and do battle there but when you come out
>>>>> its 15
>>>>> > years later) so the world has been changed drastically, monsters,
>>>>> treasure,
>>>>> > etc is different, we can have progression of things (like i had in
>>>>> mind a
>>>>> > scene where there was a war and an old man and the old man is like
>>>>> "war is
>>>>> > so terrible, this place is cursed by all the dead soldiers, i am
>>>>> going to
>>>>> > plant a tree for each one so they can find peace" and so when you
>>>>> revisit
>>>>> > the place it's a big forest. children you encounter in the chapters
>>>>> could
>>>>> > be adults, etc. we'd have a ton of mini stories and places to find
>>>>> and
>>>>> > explore in the "free mode"
>>>>> >
>>>>> > third thing is we could add more stories as mini-expansion packs and
>>>>> it
>>>>> > could be episodic in nature
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 4:32 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> For the sake of example lets say there are 3 zones. So you play
>>>>> through
>>>>> >> the 3 zones in order. After you beat the whole game you can then run
>>>>> through
>>>>> >> again on freemode where there would be more things to do but the
>>>>> same 3
>>>>> >> zones
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I'm not sure how I feel about it. I think I need more examples
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Matthew Freeland
>>>>> >> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Gonna... Be... EPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 11:00 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> Ya, I actually have a storyline and town with the
>>>>> character/zombrero in
>>>>> >>>> mind for one of the chapters... I really like it and think he'll
>>>>> be an
>>>>> >>>> awesome recruitable guy with the guitar hero style attack. I even
>>>>> talked to
>>>>> >>>> a musician buddy of mine to write some horn/guitar style mariachi
>>>>> music in
>>>>> >>>> preparation :D
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> ________________________________
>>>>> >>>> From: Matthew Freeland
>>>>> >>>> Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 22:57:57 -0700
>>>>> >>>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: game narrative structure
>>>>> >>>> There has to be some mystical guitar to rule the zombies with, so
>>>>> it can
>>>>> >>>> be like Guitar hero, only turn based combat RPG. Bwahahaa!!
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 10:55 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> I will keep some of your ideas in mind... Definitely working the
>>>>> >>>>> zombrero storyline in... :P
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> >>>>> From: Matthew Freeland
>>>>> >>>>> Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 22:39:43 -0700
>>>>> >>>>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: game narrative structure
>>>>> >>>>> Sounds fun to me.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Kinda curious as to how we should set up the entire world
>>>>> though...
>>>>> >>>>> I'll just roll with some simple questions to determine where we
>>>>> start and
>>>>> >>>>> how to arrange regions. You guys are free to give input at any
>>>>> time.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> The character, who am I? Why am I here? Where am I going? Why am
>>>>> I
>>>>> >>>>> going there? (Where's buttercup?)
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Let's say we're... a reservist soldier, male or female.
>>>>> Approximately
>>>>> >>>>> 21 or 22. Old enough to drink beer but not so young that your
>>>>> hair defies
>>>>> >>>>> gravity and you have a profoundly emo attitude like in a jRPG.
>>>>> You're in
>>>>> >>>>> your home country because you ARE. In a medium sized town big
>>>>> enough to have
>>>>> >>>>> the medieval equivalent of a Wal*Mart so there is plenty of stuff
>>>>> to do
>>>>> >>>>> around town to get familier with the concept of quest
>>>>> starting/execution.
>>>>> >>>>> You fiddle around in town for a long time doing quests, taking
>>>>> time to learn
>>>>> >>>>> all the basics of combat getting some levels and adapting to the
>>>>> game as a
>>>>> >>>>> whole. Some scary cave monster tried to jack your Zombrero and
>>>>> you're not
>>>>> >>>>> pleased about it and you decide for some unknown reason to track
>>>>> down the
>>>>> >>>>> scary cave monsters family to exact further vengeance upon them.
>>>>> Now you're
>>>>> >>>>> leaving region one which will still be accessible to you if you
>>>>> want to go
>>>>> >>>>> back (Preferably through a map screen, no need to fight through
>>>>> bunches of
>>>>> >>>>> weaker monsters to get back to earlier places).
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> You're in region 2 now. The story shifts from the learning mode
>>>>> into a
>>>>> >>>>> very mild challange as you progress and start to get slightly
>>>>> more difficult
>>>>> >>>>> monsters floating around. You quest along in the primary
>>>>> population center
>>>>> >>>>> of Region 2 and discover the whereabouts of the super scary cave
>>>>> monsters
>>>>> >>>>> super scary cave monster parents... either by questing and
>>>>> gathering
>>>>> >>>>> information or Deux ex Machina if you've played through the game
>>>>> already.
>>>>> >>>>> You hunt down the cave monster and beat the living crap out of
>>>>> it. While in
>>>>> >>>>> the cave and beating up the cave monster, a minor earthquake
>>>>> forces you to
>>>>> >>>>> flee a different direction than where you came in, as a path
>>>>> opens up during
>>>>> >>>>> the earthquake. You go through the path to find a pretty little
>>>>> isolated
>>>>> >>>>> grove in the mountains full of interesting and wonderful
>>>>> creatures and find
>>>>> >>>>> a house where some silly hermit person lives. Blah Blah Blah,
>>>>> quest this, go
>>>>> >>>>> here, That is Region 3. At this point it's assumed you understand
>>>>> the
>>>>> >>>>> mechanics of the game well enough that it won't hold your hand
>>>>> anymore.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Fastforward a whole lot of nonsense and all the sudden you've got
>>>>> some
>>>>> >>>>> real purpose to live, something that is important that your
>>>>> character do. If
>>>>> >>>>> nothing else because you're bored, who the hell knows.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> After finally finding a purpose in life you go off and do all
>>>>> kinds of
>>>>> >>>>> fun adventuring things and end up finding lots of nifty
>>>>> companions with
>>>>> >>>>> nifty abilities and nifty personalities... then after progressing
>>>>> to this
>>>>> >>>>> point war breaks out between whole bunches of angry peoples and
>>>>> you want to
>>>>> >>>>> go home to your mommy. So you go home, and you get to protect it.
>>>>> Yay. Now
>>>>> >>>>> even though you're back home, everything is a whole lot stronger
>>>>> than it was
>>>>> >>>>> previously to match your increased strength. You get to defend
>>>>> your home and
>>>>> >>>>> then get back to your purpose in life.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Let's call this purpose some arbitrary gathering quest to collect
>>>>> the 8
>>>>> >>>>> magical stones of awesomeness. Now that the first few chapters
>>>>> are done with
>>>>> >>>>> and you've had ample opportunites to develop your backstory and
>>>>> that of your
>>>>> >>>>> buddies, the world gets alot bigger. Now you can rapidly travel
>>>>> between
>>>>> >>>>> locations on your continent. Let's say you get a nice little
>>>>> buggy like in
>>>>> >>>>> FF7 or a magical carpet or something which opens up the continent
>>>>> as a whole
>>>>> >>>>> to you, except maybe a few places for further exploration after
>>>>> you get
>>>>> >>>>> better transportation. You cruise around the continent on your
>>>>> quest for the
>>>>> >>>>> magical stones of awesome and find a couple on your continent as
>>>>> well you
>>>>> >>>>> have tons of nifty quests to do in all the different locations
>>>>> and lots of
>>>>> >>>>> monsters to brutalize. Pretty soon after this point you're going
>>>>> to need a
>>>>> >>>>> new ride, so you go rough up some wussy steampunk piratey people
>>>>> and steal
>>>>> >>>>> their steam powered boat of win to connect to other continents.
>>>>> Maybe even
>>>>> >>>>> back to their steam punky island of steampunk (perfect place for
>>>>> you to
>>>>> >>>>> design, Elizabeth).
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Now you've gone from small region based exploration, to medium
>>>>> scale
>>>>> >>>>> continental exploration, to world exploration at which point the
>>>>> game is
>>>>> >>>>> completely open ended. We can even have little sections of the
>>>>> world that
>>>>> >>>>> have absolutely no relevence to the story whatsoever, but the
>>>>> story arc is
>>>>> >>>>> still important so if you want to you can continue on the
>>>>> storyline or go
>>>>> >>>>> exploring newly available continents. So you can go get super
>>>>> badass and
>>>>> >>>>> unstoppable and beat the boss at the end of the game who is
>>>>> horribly easy
>>>>> >>>>> *Cough, sephiroth, cough* but there are still tons of massive
>>>>> challenges
>>>>> >>>>> that await in the rest of the world, with smaller story arcs and
>>>>> questlines
>>>>> >>>>> that make you take on big nasty things and get lots of
>>>>> interesting stuff.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Then you grow old and die.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Weed through the sarcasm and bad grammer and see if that sounds
>>>>> >>>>> something like the narrative you had in mind.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> I hope to avoid as many video game cliches as possible in this
>>>>> endeavor
>>>>> >>>>> but for the sake of arguement I had to use them as examples. :P
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> -Wurmz
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 7:40 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> What do you think about letting the chapters be replayable, like
>>>>> you
>>>>> >>>>>> have a character/party that you and you can re-enter any of the
>>>>> chapters or
>>>>> >>>>>> the freemode (once unlocked) like... Itd be less one long story
>>>>> and instead
>>>>> >>>>>> itd be like independant short that tied together with the same
>>>>> player...
>>>>> >>>>>> This is just an idea I was thinking.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Oh and if we went this route the freemode would have a ton of
>>>>> content
>>>>> >>>>>> not in the stories...
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Just looking for feedback on the concept... It wouldn't affect
>>>>> this
>>>>> >>>>>> milestone or the next couple but (:
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> >>>>>> From: Kent Petersen
>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 18:37:29 -0700
>>>>> >>>>>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: game narrative structure
>>>>> >>>>>> So basically you want to follow a FF3-esque story? First half
>>>>> very
>>>>> >>>>>> guided and teaches the player how to play. the second half would
>>>>> then be
>>>>> >>>>>> open and leaving it up to the player. I see this working well.
>>>>> We could have
>>>>> >>>>>> all the choices made in the first half of the game impact the
>>>>> second half
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 6:19 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> just wanted to hear what you guys thought about this...
>>>>> >>>>>>> the idea is an evolution of the "world's" idea and also of the
>>>>> story
>>>>> >>>>>>> structure in diablo 2.
>>>>> >>>>>>> basically... the beginning of the game will be broken up into
>>>>> >>>>>>> "chapters" - linear storylines ala older final fantasy games
>>>>> where there is
>>>>> >>>>>>> a guided progression forward in the storylines, with a
>>>>> definitive beginning,
>>>>> >>>>>>> middle and climax. There will be places to explore, etc but
>>>>> there is a
>>>>> >>>>>>> definite story arc for the player to experience. once you
>>>>> finish the
>>>>> >>>>>>> chapter, you move on to the next one with a new area/theme.
>>>>> once you beat
>>>>> >>>>>>> the chapters and the first half of the game, it unlocks
>>>>> "freemode" which is
>>>>> >>>>>>> like the world of ruin in ff3 where the entire world is open
>>>>> for you to
>>>>> >>>>>>> explore and you discover adventures and storylines in a very
>>>>> non-linear
>>>>> >>>>>>> unguided way. The second half of the game will likely be set a
>>>>> few years in
>>>>> >>>>>>> the future after the first part is defeated so that we can
>>>>> change the world
>>>>> >>>>>>> and add new monsters and caves and villains to fight and
>>>>> explore.
>>>>> >>>>>>> what do you guys think?
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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