I think we're pretty much in agreement here. Absolutely linear story telling in video games = BAD in large doses. Being able to wander around aimlessly and screwing around in the golden saucer for hours on end is requisite. On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > I like how Dragon Warrior/Quest 4 does it. > > But being less linear. > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> Ah, I think I get what you mean. So these smaller self contained stories >> will be like the split story in FF3 or like the acts in Diablo 2. Where it >> would be a "full game" with a beginning middle and end with its own >> characters and everything. Upon completing one, you will be able to return >> to it and replay it. Upon completing the entire game you will unlock a new >> mode that takes place 15 years later but the entire world is accessible from >> the start, more like Zelda where you can wander around anywhere. Am I right? >> >> When you return to an already beaten world will you be able to use any >> characters? Could I use characters I didn't get from that world? If you >> return to a world does the story start over or do you return after it >> happened more Fallout 2 after you beat the game >> >> Do all the worlds have to be played in order like Diablo 2 or will you get >> to choose like in FF3? >> >> >> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 10:52 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>> right, and the short stories would all be self-contained also so there >>> would be a definitive beginning, middle and end. so there'd be story arcs >>> in the chapter and then an overall arc telling the whole story. the >>> free-mode would be the aftermath >>> >>> >>> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>wrote: >>> >>>> As I understand it, we could basically create levels, and then form a >>>> story around them, and those would tie into a plot altogether. Am I >>>> correct? >>>> >>>> Also, I like the episodic nature of release idea. This will let us >>>> concentrate on entire areas as milestones, and help bring our work >>>> together in a more cohesive fashion. >>>> >>>> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:58 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> > ok, im thinking about it like this... each chapter is like its own >>>> self >>>> > contained story where you play through it... think of like an expanded >>>> > version of the scenes in ff3 like where Locke has to go to east figaro >>>> and >>>> > delay the soldiers long enough, etc. etc. and he ends up finding celes >>>> and >>>> > rescuing her and has to go in disguise and stuff... like that would be >>>> a >>>> > "chapter" but ours would be longer with a bigger story arc. there'd >>>> be like >>>> > 5-6 (maybe more, we'd know when we got into them, maybe instead of 5-6 >>>> long >>>> > ones we could have a ton of short ones, like the opera scene in ff3 >>>> could be >>>> > an example). once you beat all the chapters, you would unlock >>>> freemode >>>> > which gives you free reign to explore the entire world and find >>>> adventures >>>> > like in the second half of ff3. >>>> > >>>> > Three key notes to this would be: >>>> > >>>> > you take your hero and recruited party into the chapters and you could >>>> > replay them (with characters/items that are found IN the chapter not >>>> able to >>>> > be brought in). this would be cool cuz there's things like the opera >>>> scene >>>> > or the scene where you are sabin/cyan and recruit shadow and go >>>> through the >>>> > enemy camp and then the ghost train that i'd save before hand so i >>>> could >>>> > replay them. also i picture we could have SOME randomized treasure >>>> ala >>>> > diablo 2 so people could make "runs" this would be a way for people to >>>> grind >>>> > also. we'd balance it basically by making the levels progressively >>>> more >>>> > challenging and also i view the DIFFICULTY of the game being set where >>>> > simply leveling won't be enough to destroy levels, even capped out >>>> you'd >>>> > have to be smart and savvy and strategize properly to survive. >>>> > >>>> > the second thing would be that once you finished the chapters you'd >>>> unlock >>>> > freemode which basically gives you the whole world to explore but it'd >>>> be >>>> > 10-15 years in the future (we'd explain it in the final story like you >>>> get >>>> > caught in the null realm and do battle there but when you come out its >>>> 15 >>>> > years later) so the world has been changed drastically, monsters, >>>> treasure, >>>> > etc is different, we can have progression of things (like i had in >>>> mind a >>>> > scene where there was a war and an old man and the old man is like >>>> "war is >>>> > so terrible, this place is cursed by all the dead soldiers, i am going >>>> to >>>> > plant a tree for each one so they can find peace" and so when you >>>> revisit >>>> > the place it's a big forest. children you encounter in the chapters >>>> could >>>> > be adults, etc. we'd have a ton of mini stories and places to find >>>> and >>>> > explore in the "free mode" >>>> > >>>> > third thing is we could add more stories as mini-expansion packs and >>>> it >>>> > could be episodic in nature >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 4:32 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> >>>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> For the sake of example lets say there are 3 zones. So you play >>>> through >>>> >> the 3 zones in order. After you beat the whole game you can then run >>>> through >>>> >> again on freemode where there would be more things to do but the same >>>> 3 >>>> >> zones >>>> >> >>>> >> I'm not sure how I feel about it. I think I need more examples >>>> >> >>>> >> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Matthew Freeland >>>> >> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Gonna... Be... EPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>>> >>> >>>> >>> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 11:00 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ya, I actually have a storyline and town with the >>>> character/zombrero in >>>> >>>> mind for one of the chapters... I really like it and think he'll be >>>> an >>>> >>>> awesome recruitable guy with the guitar hero style attack. I even >>>> talked to >>>> >>>> a musician buddy of mine to write some horn/guitar style mariachi >>>> music in >>>> >>>> preparation :D >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>> From: Matthew Freeland >>>> >>>> Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 22:57:57 -0700 >>>> >>>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>> >>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: game narrative structure >>>> >>>> There has to be some mystical guitar to rule the zombies with, so >>>> it can >>>> >>>> be like Guitar hero, only turn based combat RPG. Bwahahaa!! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 10:55 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> I will keep some of your ideas in mind... Definitely working the >>>> >>>>> zombrero storyline in... :P >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>>> From: Matthew Freeland >>>> >>>>> Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 22:39:43 -0700 >>>> >>>>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>> >>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: game narrative structure >>>> >>>>> Sounds fun to me. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Kinda curious as to how we should set up the entire world >>>> though... >>>> >>>>> I'll just roll with some simple questions to determine where we >>>> start and >>>> >>>>> how to arrange regions. You guys are free to give input at any >>>> time. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> The character, who am I? Why am I here? Where am I going? Why am I >>>> >>>>> going there? (Where's buttercup?) >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Let's say we're... a reservist soldier, male or female. >>>> Approximately >>>> >>>>> 21 or 22. Old enough to drink beer but not so young that your hair >>>> defies >>>> >>>>> gravity and you have a profoundly emo attitude like in a jRPG. >>>> You're in >>>> >>>>> your home country because you ARE. In a medium sized town big >>>> enough to have >>>> >>>>> the medieval equivalent of a Wal*Mart so there is plenty of stuff >>>> to do >>>> >>>>> around town to get familier with the concept of quest >>>> starting/execution. >>>> >>>>> You fiddle around in town for a long time doing quests, taking >>>> time to learn >>>> >>>>> all the basics of combat getting some levels and adapting to the >>>> game as a >>>> >>>>> whole. Some scary cave monster tried to jack your Zombrero and >>>> you're not >>>> >>>>> pleased about it and you decide for some unknown reason to track >>>> down the >>>> >>>>> scary cave monsters family to exact further vengeance upon them. >>>> Now you're >>>> >>>>> leaving region one which will still be accessible to you if you >>>> want to go >>>> >>>>> back (Preferably through a map screen, no need to fight through >>>> bunches of >>>> >>>>> weaker monsters to get back to earlier places). >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> You're in region 2 now. The story shifts from the learning mode >>>> into a >>>> >>>>> very mild challange as you progress and start to get slightly more >>>> difficult >>>> >>>>> monsters floating around. You quest along in the primary >>>> population center >>>> >>>>> of Region 2 and discover the whereabouts of the super scary cave >>>> monsters >>>> >>>>> super scary cave monster parents... either by questing and >>>> gathering >>>> >>>>> information or Deux ex Machina if you've played through the game >>>> already. >>>> >>>>> You hunt down the cave monster and beat the living crap out of it. >>>> While in >>>> >>>>> the cave and beating up the cave monster, a minor earthquake >>>> forces you to >>>> >>>>> flee a different direction than where you came in, as a path opens >>>> up during >>>> >>>>> the earthquake. You go through the path to find a pretty little >>>> isolated >>>> >>>>> grove in the mountains full of interesting and wonderful creatures >>>> and find >>>> >>>>> a house where some silly hermit person lives. Blah Blah Blah, >>>> quest this, go >>>> >>>>> here, That is Region 3. At this point it's assumed you understand >>>> the >>>> >>>>> mechanics of the game well enough that it won't hold your hand >>>> anymore. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Fastforward a whole lot of nonsense and all the sudden you've got >>>> some >>>> >>>>> real purpose to live, something that is important that your >>>> character do. If >>>> >>>>> nothing else because you're bored, who the hell knows. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> After finally finding a purpose in life you go off and do all >>>> kinds of >>>> >>>>> fun adventuring things and end up finding lots of nifty companions >>>> with >>>> >>>>> nifty abilities and nifty personalities... then after progressing >>>> to this >>>> >>>>> point war breaks out between whole bunches of angry peoples and >>>> you want to >>>> >>>>> go home to your mommy. So you go home, and you get to protect it. >>>> Yay. Now >>>> >>>>> even though you're back home, everything is a whole lot stronger >>>> than it was >>>> >>>>> previously to match your increased strength. You get to defend >>>> your home and >>>> >>>>> then get back to your purpose in life. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Let's call this purpose some arbitrary gathering quest to collect >>>> the 8 >>>> >>>>> magical stones of awesomeness. Now that the first few chapters are >>>> done with >>>> >>>>> and you've had ample opportunites to develop your backstory and >>>> that of your >>>> >>>>> buddies, the world gets alot bigger. Now you can rapidly travel >>>> between >>>> >>>>> locations on your continent. Let's say you get a nice little buggy >>>> like in >>>> >>>>> FF7 or a magical carpet or something which opens up the continent >>>> as a whole >>>> >>>>> to you, except maybe a few places for further exploration after >>>> you get >>>> >>>>> better transportation. You cruise around the continent on your >>>> quest for the >>>> >>>>> magical stones of awesome and find a couple on your continent as >>>> well you >>>> >>>>> have tons of nifty quests to do in all the different locations and >>>> lots of >>>> >>>>> monsters to brutalize. Pretty soon after this point you're going >>>> to need a >>>> >>>>> new ride, so you go rough up some wussy steampunk piratey people >>>> and steal >>>> >>>>> their steam powered boat of win to connect to other continents. >>>> Maybe even >>>> >>>>> back to their steam punky island of steampunk (perfect place for >>>> you to >>>> >>>>> design, Elizabeth). >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Now you've gone from small region based exploration, to medium >>>> scale >>>> >>>>> continental exploration, to world exploration at which point the >>>> game is >>>> >>>>> completely open ended. We can even have little sections of the >>>> world that >>>> >>>>> have absolutely no relevence to the story whatsoever, but the >>>> story arc is >>>> >>>>> still important so if you want to you can continue on the >>>> storyline or go >>>> >>>>> exploring newly available continents. So you can go get super >>>> badass and >>>> >>>>> unstoppable and beat the boss at the end of the game who is >>>> horribly easy >>>> >>>>> *Cough, sephiroth, cough* but there are still tons of massive >>>> challenges >>>> >>>>> that await in the rest of the world, with smaller story arcs and >>>> questlines >>>> >>>>> that make you take on big nasty things and get lots of interesting >>>> stuff. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Then you grow old and die. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Weed through the sarcasm and bad grammer and see if that sounds >>>> >>>>> something like the narrative you had in mind. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> I hope to avoid as many video game cliches as possible in this >>>> endeavor >>>> >>>>> but for the sake of arguement I had to use them as examples. :P >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> -Wurmz >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 7:40 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> What do you think about letting the chapters be replayable, like >>>> you >>>> >>>>>> have a character/party that you and you can re-enter any of the >>>> chapters or >>>> >>>>>> the freemode (once unlocked) like... Itd be less one long story >>>> and instead >>>> >>>>>> itd be like independant short that tied together with the same >>>> player... >>>> >>>>>> This is just an idea I was thinking. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Oh and if we went this route the freemode would have a ton of >>>> content >>>> >>>>>> not in the stories... >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Just looking for feedback on the concept... It wouldn't affect >>>> this >>>> >>>>>> milestone or the next couple but (: >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>>>> From: Kent Petersen >>>> >>>>>> Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 18:37:29 -0700 >>>> >>>>>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>> >>>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: game narrative structure >>>> >>>>>> So basically you want to follow a FF3-esque story? First half >>>> very >>>> >>>>>> guided and teaches the player how to play. the second half would >>>> then be >>>> >>>>>> open and leaving it up to the player. I see this working well. We >>>> could have >>>> >>>>>> all the choices made in the first half of the game impact the >>>> second half >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 6:19 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> >>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> just wanted to hear what you guys thought about this... >>>> >>>>>>> the idea is an evolution of the "world's" idea and also of the >>>> story >>>> >>>>>>> structure in diablo 2. >>>> >>>>>>> basically... the beginning of the game will be broken up into >>>> >>>>>>> "chapters" - linear storylines ala older final fantasy games >>>> where there is >>>> >>>>>>> a guided progression forward in the storylines, with a >>>> definitive beginning, >>>> >>>>>>> middle and climax. There will be places to explore, etc but >>>> there is a >>>> >>>>>>> definite story arc for the player to experience. once you >>>> finish the >>>> >>>>>>> chapter, you move on to the next one with a new area/theme. >>>> once you beat >>>> >>>>>>> the chapters and the first half of the game, it unlocks >>>> "freemode" which is >>>> >>>>>>> like the world of ruin in ff3 where the entire world is open for >>>> you to >>>> >>>>>>> explore and you discover adventures and storylines in a very >>>> non-linear >>>> >>>>>>> unguided way. The second half of the game will likely be set a >>>> few years in >>>> >>>>>>> the future after the first part is defeated so that we can >>>> change the world >>>> >>>>>>> and add new monsters and caves and villains to fight and >>>> explore. >>>> >>>>>>> what do you guys think? >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>> >> >