[project1dev] Re: game narrative structure

  • From: Matthew Freeland <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 14:40:43 -0700

I think we're pretty much in agreement here. Absolutely linear story telling
in video games = BAD in large doses.

Being able to wander around aimlessly and screwing around in the golden
saucer for hours on end is requisite.

On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> I like how Dragon Warrior/Quest 4 does it.
>
> But being less linear.
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Ah, I think I get what you mean. So these smaller self contained stories
>> will be like the split story in FF3 or like the acts in Diablo 2. Where it
>> would be a "full game" with a beginning middle and end with its own
>> characters and everything. Upon completing one, you will be able to return
>> to it and replay it. Upon completing the entire game you will unlock a new
>> mode that takes place 15 years later but the entire world is accessible from
>> the start, more like Zelda where you can wander around anywhere. Am I right?
>>
>> When you return to an already beaten world will you be able to use any
>> characters? Could I use characters I didn't get from that world? If you
>> return to a world does the story start over or do you return after it
>> happened more Fallout 2 after you beat the game
>>
>> Do all the worlds have to be played in order like Diablo 2 or will you get
>> to choose like in FF3?
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 10:52 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> right, and the short stories would all be self-contained also so there
>>> would be a definitive beginning, middle and end.  so there'd be story arcs
>>> in the chapter and then an overall arc telling the whole story.  the
>>> free-mode would be the aftermath
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> As I understand it, we could basically create levels, and then form a
>>>> story around them, and those would tie into a plot altogether.  Am I
>>>> correct?
>>>>
>>>> Also, I like the episodic nature of release idea.  This will let us
>>>> concentrate on entire areas as milestones, and help bring our work
>>>> together in a more cohesive fashion.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:58 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> > ok, im thinking about it like this... each chapter is like its own
>>>> self
>>>> > contained story where you play through it... think of like an expanded
>>>> > version of the scenes in ff3 like where Locke has to go to east figaro
>>>> and
>>>> > delay the soldiers long enough, etc. etc. and he ends up finding celes
>>>> and
>>>> > rescuing her and has to go in disguise and stuff... like that would be
>>>> a
>>>> > "chapter" but ours would be longer with a bigger story arc.  there'd
>>>> be like
>>>> > 5-6 (maybe more, we'd know when we got into them, maybe instead of 5-6
>>>> long
>>>> > ones we could have a ton of short ones, like the opera scene in ff3
>>>> could be
>>>> > an example).  once you beat all the chapters, you would unlock
>>>> freemode
>>>> > which gives you free reign to explore the entire world and find
>>>> adventures
>>>> > like in the second half of ff3.
>>>> >
>>>> > Three key notes to this would be:
>>>> >
>>>> > you take your hero and recruited party into the chapters and you could
>>>> > replay them (with characters/items that are found IN the chapter not
>>>> able to
>>>> > be brought in).  this would be cool cuz there's things like the opera
>>>> scene
>>>> > or the scene where you are sabin/cyan and recruit shadow and go
>>>> through the
>>>> > enemy camp and then the ghost train that i'd save before hand so i
>>>> could
>>>> > replay them.  also i picture we could have SOME randomized treasure
>>>> ala
>>>> > diablo 2 so people could make "runs" this would be a way for people to
>>>> grind
>>>> > also.  we'd balance it basically by making the levels progressively
>>>> more
>>>> > challenging and also i view the DIFFICULTY of the game being set where
>>>> > simply leveling won't be enough to destroy levels, even capped out
>>>> you'd
>>>> > have to be smart and savvy and strategize properly to survive.
>>>> >
>>>> > the second thing would be that once you finished the chapters you'd
>>>> unlock
>>>> > freemode which basically gives you the whole world to explore but it'd
>>>> be
>>>> > 10-15 years in the future (we'd explain it in the final story like you
>>>> get
>>>> > caught in the null realm and do battle there but when you come out its
>>>> 15
>>>> > years later) so the world has been changed drastically, monsters,
>>>> treasure,
>>>> > etc is different, we can have progression of things (like i had in
>>>> mind a
>>>> > scene where there was a war and an old man and the old man is like
>>>> "war is
>>>> > so terrible, this place is cursed by all the dead soldiers, i am going
>>>> to
>>>> > plant a tree for each one so they can find peace" and so when you
>>>> revisit
>>>> > the place it's a big forest.  children you encounter in the chapters
>>>> could
>>>> > be adults, etc.  we'd have a ton of mini stories and places to find
>>>> and
>>>> > explore in the "free mode"
>>>> >
>>>> > third thing is we could add more stories as mini-expansion packs and
>>>> it
>>>> > could be episodic in nature
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 4:32 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> For the sake of example lets say there are 3 zones. So you play
>>>> through
>>>> >> the 3 zones in order. After you beat the whole game you can then run
>>>> through
>>>> >> again on freemode where there would be more things to do but the same
>>>> 3
>>>> >> zones
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I'm not sure how I feel about it. I think I need more examples
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Matthew Freeland
>>>> >> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Gonna... Be... EPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 11:00 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Ya, I actually have a storyline and town with the
>>>> character/zombrero in
>>>> >>>> mind for one of the chapters... I really like it and think he'll be
>>>> an
>>>> >>>> awesome recruitable guy with the guitar hero style attack. I even
>>>> talked to
>>>> >>>> a musician buddy of mine to write some horn/guitar style mariachi
>>>> music in
>>>> >>>> preparation :D
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> ________________________________
>>>> >>>> From: Matthew Freeland
>>>> >>>> Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 22:57:57 -0700
>>>> >>>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: game narrative structure
>>>> >>>> There has to be some mystical guitar to rule the zombies with, so
>>>> it can
>>>> >>>> be like Guitar hero, only turn based combat RPG. Bwahahaa!!
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 10:55 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> I will keep some of your ideas in mind... Definitely working the
>>>> >>>>> zombrero storyline in... :P
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> ________________________________
>>>> >>>>> From: Matthew Freeland
>>>> >>>>> Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 22:39:43 -0700
>>>> >>>>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: game narrative structure
>>>> >>>>> Sounds fun to me.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Kinda curious as to how we should set up the entire world
>>>> though...
>>>> >>>>> I'll just roll with some simple questions to determine where we
>>>> start and
>>>> >>>>> how to arrange regions. You guys are free to give input at any
>>>> time.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> The character, who am I? Why am I here? Where am I going? Why am I
>>>> >>>>> going there? (Where's buttercup?)
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Let's say we're... a reservist soldier, male or female.
>>>> Approximately
>>>> >>>>> 21 or 22. Old enough to drink beer but not so young that your hair
>>>> defies
>>>> >>>>> gravity and you have a profoundly emo attitude like in a jRPG.
>>>> You're in
>>>> >>>>> your home country because you ARE. In a medium sized town big
>>>> enough to have
>>>> >>>>> the medieval equivalent of a Wal*Mart so there is plenty of stuff
>>>> to do
>>>> >>>>> around town to get familier with the concept of quest
>>>> starting/execution.
>>>> >>>>> You fiddle around in town for a long time doing quests, taking
>>>> time to learn
>>>> >>>>> all the basics of combat getting some levels and adapting to the
>>>> game as a
>>>> >>>>> whole. Some scary cave monster tried to jack your Zombrero and
>>>> you're not
>>>> >>>>> pleased about it and you decide for some unknown reason to track
>>>> down the
>>>> >>>>> scary cave monsters family to exact further vengeance upon them.
>>>> Now you're
>>>> >>>>> leaving region one which will still be accessible to you if you
>>>> want to go
>>>> >>>>> back (Preferably through a map screen, no need to fight through
>>>> bunches of
>>>> >>>>> weaker monsters to get back to earlier places).
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> You're in region 2 now. The story shifts from the learning mode
>>>> into a
>>>> >>>>> very mild challange as you progress and start to get slightly more
>>>> difficult
>>>> >>>>> monsters floating around. You quest along in the primary
>>>> population center
>>>> >>>>> of Region 2 and discover the whereabouts of the super scary cave
>>>> monsters
>>>> >>>>> super scary cave monster parents... either by questing and
>>>> gathering
>>>> >>>>> information or Deux ex Machina if you've played through the game
>>>> already.
>>>> >>>>> You hunt down the cave monster and beat the living crap out of it.
>>>> While in
>>>> >>>>> the cave and beating up the cave monster, a minor earthquake
>>>> forces you to
>>>> >>>>> flee a different direction than where you came in, as a path opens
>>>> up during
>>>> >>>>> the earthquake. You go through the path to find a pretty little
>>>> isolated
>>>> >>>>> grove in the mountains full of interesting and wonderful creatures
>>>> and find
>>>> >>>>> a house where some silly hermit person lives. Blah Blah Blah,
>>>> quest this, go
>>>> >>>>> here, That is Region 3. At this point it's assumed you understand
>>>> the
>>>> >>>>> mechanics of the game well enough that it won't hold your hand
>>>> anymore.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Fastforward a whole lot of nonsense and all the sudden you've got
>>>> some
>>>> >>>>> real purpose to live, something that is important that your
>>>> character do. If
>>>> >>>>> nothing else because you're bored, who the hell knows.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> After finally finding a purpose in life you go off and do all
>>>> kinds of
>>>> >>>>> fun adventuring things and end up finding lots of nifty companions
>>>> with
>>>> >>>>> nifty abilities and nifty personalities... then after progressing
>>>> to this
>>>> >>>>> point war breaks out between whole bunches of angry peoples and
>>>> you want to
>>>> >>>>> go home to your mommy. So you go home, and you get to protect it.
>>>> Yay. Now
>>>> >>>>> even though you're back home, everything is a whole lot stronger
>>>> than it was
>>>> >>>>> previously to match your increased strength. You get to defend
>>>> your home and
>>>> >>>>> then get back to your purpose in life.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Let's call this purpose some arbitrary gathering quest to collect
>>>> the 8
>>>> >>>>> magical stones of awesomeness. Now that the first few chapters are
>>>> done with
>>>> >>>>> and you've had ample opportunites to develop your backstory and
>>>> that of your
>>>> >>>>> buddies, the world gets alot bigger. Now you can rapidly travel
>>>> between
>>>> >>>>> locations on your continent. Let's say you get a nice little buggy
>>>> like in
>>>> >>>>> FF7 or a magical carpet or something which opens up the continent
>>>> as a whole
>>>> >>>>> to you, except maybe a few places for further exploration after
>>>> you get
>>>> >>>>> better transportation. You cruise around the continent on your
>>>> quest for the
>>>> >>>>> magical stones of awesome and find a couple on your continent as
>>>> well you
>>>> >>>>> have tons of nifty quests to do in all the different locations and
>>>> lots of
>>>> >>>>> monsters to brutalize. Pretty soon after this point you're going
>>>> to need a
>>>> >>>>> new ride, so you go rough up some wussy steampunk piratey people
>>>> and steal
>>>> >>>>> their steam powered boat of win to connect to other continents.
>>>> Maybe even
>>>> >>>>> back to their steam punky island of steampunk (perfect place for
>>>> you to
>>>> >>>>> design, Elizabeth).
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Now you've gone from small region based exploration, to medium
>>>> scale
>>>> >>>>> continental exploration, to world exploration at which point the
>>>> game is
>>>> >>>>> completely open ended. We can even have little sections of the
>>>> world that
>>>> >>>>> have absolutely no relevence to the story whatsoever, but the
>>>> story arc is
>>>> >>>>> still important so if you want to you can continue on the
>>>> storyline or go
>>>> >>>>> exploring newly available continents. So you can go get super
>>>> badass and
>>>> >>>>> unstoppable and beat the boss at the end of the game who is
>>>> horribly easy
>>>> >>>>> *Cough, sephiroth, cough* but there are still tons of massive
>>>> challenges
>>>> >>>>> that await in the rest of the world, with smaller story arcs and
>>>> questlines
>>>> >>>>> that make you take on big nasty things and get lots of interesting
>>>> stuff.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Then you grow old and die.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Weed through the sarcasm and bad grammer and see if that sounds
>>>> >>>>> something like the narrative you had in mind.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> I hope to avoid as many video game cliches as possible in this
>>>> endeavor
>>>> >>>>> but for the sake of arguement I had to use them as examples. :P
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> -Wurmz
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 7:40 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> What do you think about letting the chapters be replayable, like
>>>> you
>>>> >>>>>> have a character/party that you and you can re-enter any of the
>>>> chapters or
>>>> >>>>>> the freemode (once unlocked) like... Itd be less one long story
>>>> and instead
>>>> >>>>>> itd be like independant short that tied together with the same
>>>> player...
>>>> >>>>>> This is just an idea I was thinking.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Oh and if we went this route the freemode would have a ton of
>>>> content
>>>> >>>>>> not in the stories...
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Just looking for feedback on the concept... It wouldn't affect
>>>> this
>>>> >>>>>> milestone or the next couple but (:
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________
>>>> >>>>>> From: Kent Petersen
>>>> >>>>>> Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 18:37:29 -0700
>>>> >>>>>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: game narrative structure
>>>> >>>>>> So basically you want to follow a FF3-esque story? First half
>>>> very
>>>> >>>>>> guided and teaches the player how to play. the second half would
>>>> then be
>>>> >>>>>> open and leaving it up to the player. I see this working well. We
>>>> could have
>>>> >>>>>> all the choices made in the first half of the game impact the
>>>> second half
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 6:19 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> just wanted to hear what you guys thought about this...
>>>> >>>>>>> the idea is an evolution of the "world's" idea and also of the
>>>> story
>>>> >>>>>>> structure in diablo 2.
>>>> >>>>>>> basically... the beginning of the game will be broken up into
>>>> >>>>>>> "chapters" - linear storylines ala older final fantasy games
>>>> where there is
>>>> >>>>>>> a guided progression forward in the storylines, with a
>>>> definitive beginning,
>>>> >>>>>>> middle and climax.  There will be places to explore, etc but
>>>> there is a
>>>> >>>>>>> definite story arc for the player to experience.  once you
>>>> finish the
>>>> >>>>>>> chapter, you move on to the next one with a new area/theme.
>>>>  once you beat
>>>> >>>>>>> the chapters and the first half of the game, it unlocks
>>>> "freemode" which is
>>>> >>>>>>> like the world of ruin in ff3 where the entire world is open for
>>>> you to
>>>> >>>>>>> explore and you discover adventures and storylines in a very
>>>> non-linear
>>>> >>>>>>> unguided way. The second half of the game will likely be set a
>>>> few years in
>>>> >>>>>>> the future after the first part is defeated so that we can
>>>> change the world
>>>> >>>>>>> and add new monsters and caves and villains to fight and
>>>> explore.
>>>> >>>>>>> what do you guys think?
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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