[project1dev] Re: first things first
- From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 14:07:29 -0400
oh one more thing - i dont think i talked about this...
i am a console gamer at heart and would love if we could port this over to
xbox live arcade someday. I like playing games with a controller and prefer
it to mouse and keyboard mostly. i actually think we should design the game
from the bottom up w/ dual controls in mind (mouse/keyboard and gamepad) and
support gamepads asap... the wired 360 controller plugs right into the
computer :)
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Thanks Eric. Those were the kind of answers I was looking for
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> you know, it's funny but your "no elves at the north pole comment"
>>
>> it makes me want to make a game (not this one) where santa (he might not
>> actually be santa, he could just be a human toy maker / machinist kind of
>> guy) and the elves live in a camp on the pole, on the frozen tundra in the
>> woods, in the land of perpetual night, and there is some dark king type guy
>> who lives near and is trying to bring evil onto the world or something (like
>> picture the guy from legend.. damn i love that movie).
>>
>> The atmosphere would be relaly dark and epic and surreal hehe
>>
>> maybe it'd just be another area in the candy land game
>>
>> I really wanna see the peppermint woodsmen chop down some gremlins w/ his
>> candy axe haha (and then maybe he gets overwhelmed)
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 10:05 AM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> good questions kent...
>>>
>>> i think the size will really be dictated by the amount of work/effort it
>>> takes to get the character creation and first "world" done. If it is easy to
>>> create and populate the world, we'll make it bigger, if it is hard - we will
>>> go for quality over quantity and focus on doing the best we can w/ what we
>>> have. What you envision is in line w/ my thoughts though, re: NPC's being
>>> unique and having a purpose rather than just being fodder.
>>>
>>> Physical land, i would say we will have to play w/ it. I think this is
>>> another answer that will be best reconciled via in game trial ... its hard
>>> to say without knowing how the game "feels" - it could be that smaller areas
>>> with dense content may feel like more than enough, or maybe we'll feel like
>>> we need large rolling landscapes to invoke the proper atmosphere.
>>>
>>> I would imagine 1 or 2 small towns per world, and then new towns and
>>> combinations, changes, etc when the worlds are smooshed together. My less is
>>> more comment was more in reference to quality over quantity and also - when
>>> we design things, we should try not to duplicate thing too much, i.e. one
>>> magic wishing well is unique and adds flavor, make a ton of them though and
>>> they lose their value.
>>>
>>> I know these are sort of vague answers - re: how big the world is, but
>>> its hard to say really without knowing how the game will feel. hopefully
>>> this first map will give us the information we need and we can design and
>>> proceed accordingly.
>>>
>>> as far as mythology goes... my only BIG thing is i really really really
>>> really (x1000) want to avoid modern fantasy cliche's like orcs, elves, etc.
>>> i feel like tolkien has been tapped one too many times - but there are
>>> plenty of other sources for inspiration that we can draw from that can
>>> provide a lot of cool stuff for us. I like greek mythology, arabic
>>> mythology, norse mythology, etc. alice in wonderland, steampunk stuff,
>>> conan, fafhrd and the grey mouser, peterpan, old folklore like grimms
>>> fairytales, native american legends, tall tales (John Henry FTW) etc
>>>
>>> one thing is i would say we can have A minotaur, but not a minotaur race
>>> - we want to make a clean distinction between us and WoW :P plus, back on
>>> the theme... a minotaur is unique, a race of them loses the mystique. In
>>> fact, i would say that about everything fantastical - an elf is fine, a race
>>> of elves is fairyland at the northpole w/ legolas - ha ha. seriously, i
>>> fucking hate elfs. anyways, i would say it like this ... if we create our
>>> own race of creatures, or the race in inspired by either an obscure source
>>> OR an ancient myth, we can have MANY of them - im cool w/ goatmen, centaurs,
>>> mermaids, mushroom men, as RACES. but if we are going to use something
>>> derivative (like something tolkien, WoW, harry potter or other major modern
>>> fantasy things) we should limit it to 1. Maybe my brain is broken but even
>>> though I HATE ELFS - i think one elf sounds kinda cool, like mysterious,
>>> where did it come from? why is it here? what is it doing? Wow and to
>>> contradict myself, i think dwarves are ok too or a dwarf is neat
>>> too...mythological races will be a case by case thing, maybe, and as we get
>>> deeper in the mythology of the game will be further developed and things
>>> like this might be answered along the way. I hope this is making some sort
>>> of sense...
>>>
>>> On Apr 8, 2009 12:31pm, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> > I would say design it with porting in mind. Everything that uses the
>>> mouse interface should be able to have an analog stick representation. We
>>> would also need to keep controls to a maximum of the number of buttons on an
>>> XBox controller.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > How long will the game take to finish if one was not exploring every
>>> detail?
>>> >
>>> > How large of a game will this be? How many NPCs will wander the world?
>>> Will there be 100s? 1000s? 10000s? From the description you have given I
>>> envision a "smaller" game with 100s of NPCs (or less) each NPC unique with
>>> something important to provide to the player. How about physical land space?
>>> Will it include many towns or fewer? Just one in each land? I guess what I'm
>>> really asking is when you say less is more, how much detail do you want and
>>> how large of a game will it be?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > If we are creating our own lore, we should have some basic monsters in
>>> mind. What kind of Mythological creatues would you like to have? Like
>>> Centaurs and Minotaurs or something new we make? Maybe a half otter half man
>>> sea creature. Something different entirely?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 5:40 AM, eric drewes figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > yeah man, definitely like the telekenisis idea and it is in line w/
>>> what i had in mind. I pictured a glowing hand that's range was defined by
>>> your willpower/skill and could activate switches, grab items, etc. but i
>>> really like the potential for physics and stuff. It could be balanced also
>>> because i was planning on having items in the game like a whip (or hookshot,
>>> etc). well i will address this in the items/eq post but yeah :)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Chris Riccobono crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > This is an awesome foundation document. Good job writing this up,
>>> Eric. :)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > There's so many things to build off of in here. I really like the
>>> >
>>> > telekinesis archetype.. it's a good way to include magic in the game
>>> >
>>> > in a unique way. It'll also be great for storytelling purposes! As
>>> >
>>> > for the control thing, we should definitely think about analog sticks
>>> >
>>> > for later on (which can easily be done with the mouse on the pc)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Legend of Mana on the ps2 had a great system that let you change the
>>> >
>>> > psychics of things after you grabbed them with a whip by using the
>>> >
>>> > analog stick. We could create a skill implementation of that with
>>> >
>>> > telekinesis, where you can grab objects and manipulate them in the
>>> >
>>> > world using the mouse.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Messing with the speed of the movement gave a great sense of gravity
>>> >
>>> > too, so you felt like you were actually throwing something around.
>>> >
>>> > Using randomness here helps too.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:26 PM, figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > Game objective: to provide an amazing experience to gamers by fusing
>>> action adventure elements and traditional rpg gameplay - with the extra
>>> twist that only WE can provide.
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > Theme: the overall theme of the game is a new mythology. I picture
>>> more like greek myths, old folklore, etc rather than modern fantasy like
>>> lord of the rings. It is really important we establish our own creatures,
>>> stories, myths, monsters etc. Obviously we can be inspired by things we
>>> think are great (zelda, oldschool ff's, modern rpg's) but we want it to be
>>> in the universe we define and design. In my head, the characters, npc's,
>>> etc. are mostly real down to earth ppl with real problems, but they live in
>>> subtly surreal world with all sorts of wonders and dangers that don't exist
>>> irl. I think a major key here is to remember-less is more. If you have one
>>> magician, he's unique and interesting, if you have 100 (like harry potter)
>>> magic becomes common place and loses its *ahem* magic. If we want stuff to
>>> have an impact, it is smart to keep it's mystery and rareness. Supply and
>>> demand, etc. You all took economics.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > Setting: this game is set in a yet unnamed world. In the beginning,
>>> there are the pocket "worlds" - each representing its own self contained
>>> little world of various size, including town/towns, landscape settings, etc.
>>> A world might be an island or a dessert world. These worlds are connected
>>> by doors that progress forward towards an unknown 'final world' in a linear
>>> fashion. there are two doors hidden in each world - one forward to the next
>>> world and one back towards the beginning. When NPC's go through the doors
>>> they turn into crazed demonic creatures called karzi. For an unknown
>>> reason, the main character can freely transverse through the doors - the
>>> first half of the game will mostly involve the quest forward to the final
>>> world. The second half of the game is after the main character reaches the
>>> final world, something happens that causes the borders between the worlds to
>>> crumble creating one large interconnected worlds made up of the lands that
>>> the character went through and some he didn't. While to the character it
>>> was only mere moments between the event in the final world and his arrival
>>> in the new one, it is 10 years later in the now combined world. New empires
>>> have formed, aliances made, and new adventures to be had.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > Character skill/stats:
>>> >
>>> > > The stat system is going to be deep and interconnected with other
>>> systems and stats in the game. Things like speed will affect both overworld
>>> movement and combat speed. Besides the standard stats like strength,
>>> quickness, speed, constition, etc. there will also be auxillary stats
>>> involving the character's will power. These stats are aggression and
>>> discipline - these stats affect things like going berserk, getting scared,
>>> etc. which will have influences on combat.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > Stats:
>>> >
>>> > > Strength: influences damage, lifting ability, critical hits.
>>> >
>>> > > Quickness: influences dodging, rt, speed running
>>> >
>>> > > Constitution: affects HP, stamina, lifting ability
>>> >
>>> > > Will: influences discipline/agression system, magic abilty
>>> >
>>> > > Charisma: influences ppl's reaction towards you, ability to recruit,
>>> some magic, also influences faction stuff. (Maybe there's order charisma and
>>> chaos charisma and some ppl are attracted to either or neutrality)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > Perception: influences dodging, also makes things like traps, secret
>>> doors, hidden treasure, etc glow.
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > Skill intro:
>>> >
>>> > > There are basic skills, master skills, and perks. Basic skills are
>>> the skills everyone has.. Things like parrying, swinging a weapon, dodging,
>>> swimming, jumping, etc (all affected by stats) and then there are master
>>> skills which basically is how classes are defined. Master skills are skills
>>> that "level up" and give bonus perks and abilities in combat. An example of
>>> this would be like final fantasy skills like swordtech for cyan or blitz for
>>> saban. Another example of a master skill is magic. Perks are things that
>>> can affect overworld or combat, like a quickdraw perk that gives you first
>>> strike more often, lockpicking, an ability to sense if certain
>>> creatures/characters have magic ability... There can be a ton.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > Ahhh magic:
>>> >
>>> > > Yes there will be magic. It will not be like magic in normal games.
>>> Magic. in this game is all about imposing your will on the world around you.
>>> Instead of using the elements, etc. Magic will be used to do telekenisis,
>>> mind control, mentally destroying the enemies, and bend physical reality
>>> etc. Now that's not to say we can't have crazy bad ass spells, as mages can
>>> warp reality and the world around them using the power of their will...
>>> Causing rock spikes to burst from a boulder, etc. Also telekenisis can be
>>> used in the overworld, its range and strength varying on will power and
>>> magic skill. Perhaps further power in magic would allow time manipulation,
>>> etc. Very very few ppl in the world can use magic, and it is secretive and
>>> looked at as evil.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > Movement in the world:
>>> >
>>> > > The main character can run, jump, climb, etc. Exploring is going to
>>> be an adventure, with things like ropes to swing across, places to jump,
>>> things to dodge, etc. I am picturing indiana jones type of things with
>>> giant boulders, darts shooting from the wlals, spike rooms, places to swim,
>>> etc. Just a lot of cool actiony things to challenge the gamer.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > Combat:
>>> >
>>> > > Combat is initiated by bumping into or being ambushed by an enemy.
>>> It will change screens to a combat screen like a traditional rpg but it
>>> will not be standard turn based action once in. What it will be is
>>> something I have termed the "slip strike" system. Basically combat will be
>>> like a bizarre chimera of mike tyson's punchout, gemstone and final fantasy.
>>> Basically you control your character by selecting a command and then
>>> deciding when to execute it - while waiting you will actively control a
>>> block/parry/dodge defense and when you see an opening you'd execute. I can
>>> see this system being awesome, but perhaps overwelming. Maybe the beginning
>>> will be standard atb combat and only at the end is this... We'll have to
>>> play with it and find what is fun. Status effects like being maimed, etc
>>> will affect dodging and can either be made via critical hits or damage
>>> inflicted by overworld obstacles/etc.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > Important notes, re: combat -
>>> >
>>> > > To grind or not to grind, that is the question... Basically, there
>>> are going to be two kinds of areas in this game, explore areas and grind
>>> areas, now grind areas can have adventuring and explore areas can have
>>> combat and enemies, but we want to keep in mind the theme of the area.
>>> Basically it is my belief that every battle should be dangerous and
>>> challenging and pose an actual threat to the player. Rather than make the
>>> game a war of attrition as the main character plows through an endless horde
>>> of weak enemies, all the fights in an adventure area should be meaningful.
>>> Less enemies, more epic fights basically. There will, of course, be grind
>>> areas too where you can do battle for the hell of it.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > Party member:
>>> >
>>> > > Two quick things here... This is subject to change depending on how
>>> the combat system plays out but basically you'd either control your group
>>> actively like ff or dq or issue them general commands. This will need
>>> tweaking once we get in. The other aspect of party members that is
>>> important is this... I want death to be meaningful - losing a party member
>>> is easy to ignore if you can just ressurect them in battle or right
>>> afterwards, there is no concequence. My solution is this: if a party member
>>> dies, they go to a node and you have to go to the node to jail break them
>>> out and have them rejoin your party. We could have these nodes in various
>>> places and it could add an element to gameplay. Obviously, this will need
>>> to be balanced out, etc.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > Character creation, the first level:
>>> >
>>> > > Basically you pick your face and general looks and the screen fades
>>> and your character appears in a black void. An NPC (character in hat/cloak)
>>> explains that its time to test you and you are put through (I like 3
>>> randomly ordered with a secret 4th one that pops up occasionally and maybe
>>> imbues special powers or only 4th test ppl can learn magic). How the player
>>> plays out the tests gives them a general starting point for their stats,
>>> skills and perks.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > THE TRIALS:
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > Test 1 - cave - you are shoved through a door, tumble down 1000 steps
>>> and arrive at the foot of a cave. The cave has treasure and a warning not
>>> to touch it. There will be various ways through the cave (like going through
>>> a trapped tunnel, dodging the traps gives appropriate bonuses, also just
>>> being a crazy mofo and walking through does too. There is no way to lose -
>>> its a test of character). I also like barriers you could smash down or try
>>> to pick. Also I think there could be an avarice/generousity system which
>>> would balance by ppl liking you or finding more loot. At the end of the
>>> cave there is a door leading to the next quest. There is a lot of neat stuff
>>> we could do here.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > Test 2 - you come out the door and are on a ship. The ship is a
>>> warship. You make choices depending on information you find by talking to
>>> crew members, items you find, and talking to the prisoners. The outcomes
>>> could be things like... You free the prisoners, there's a mutiny, you escape
>>> via lifeboat, you join the crew of the warship. We can flesh this out but
>>> what I have in mind is that there's conflicting stories which makes the
>>> outcome seem morally ambiguous and maybe the best solution is only revealed
>>> if you're super perceptive and find the right clue.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > Test 3 - the tower - the tower is basically a spiral tower upwards
>>> with traps, monsters and treasure but no real storyline. This will just
>>> help flesh out the character stats.
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > Remember, these tests are random so no specific order...
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > Test 4 - you go through a door and end up in the cloaked man's room.
>>> He asks how you got there, you answer some questions and he decides whether
>>> to teach you magic and maybe what kind (physical magic that helps enhance
>>> physical skills ... Maybe an example would be double jump or jedi like
>>> stuff, mental magic which was discussed above, or a hybrid) magic probably
>>> comes at a prohibitive cost so that it balances w/ non magic players (I.e.
>>> The path of magic is harder but had awesome rewards ... It isn't for
>>> everyone). Maybe the cloaked man asks you what you sacrifice from a list we
>>> can develop. Afterwards, he pushes you out the door and end up in either one
>>> of the untaken tests or the exit .
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > The first world: we'll need a town and storyline for this, and
>>> include the cave we are making now... The rest of the storya nd environments
>>> need to be developed but I figure by the time we get to the first town,
>>> we'll be rolling along pretty good.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > This is basically just an overview... Obviously many things need to
>>> be fleshed out, decided, tested, perfected...but I figure this would give a
>>> nice starting platform to work off of.
>>> >
>>> > > Things like the mechanics of skills, stats and the perk system will
>>> need to be laid out in more detail but I think this is a nice start.
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > Eric
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>
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