[project1dev] Re: first things first

  • From: Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 10:42:26 -0700

Thanks Eric. Those were the kind of answers I was looking for

On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> you know, it's funny but your "no elves at the north pole comment"
>
> it makes me want to make a game (not this one) where santa (he might not
> actually be santa, he could just be a human toy maker / machinist kind of
> guy) and the elves live in a camp on the pole, on the frozen tundra in the
> woods, in the land of perpetual night, and there is some dark king type guy
> who lives near and is trying to bring evil onto the world or something (like
> picture the guy from legend.. damn i love that movie).
>
> The atmosphere would be relaly dark and epic and surreal hehe
>
> maybe it'd just be another area in the candy land game
>
> I really wanna see the peppermint woodsmen chop down some gremlins w/ his
> candy axe haha (and then maybe he gets overwhelmed)
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 10:05 AM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> good questions kent...
>>
>> i think the size will really be dictated by the amount of work/effort it
>> takes to get the character creation and first "world" done. If it is easy to
>> create and populate the world, we'll make it bigger, if it is hard - we will
>> go for quality over quantity and focus on doing the best we can w/ what we
>> have. What you envision is in line w/ my thoughts though, re: NPC's being
>> unique and having a purpose rather than just being fodder.
>>
>> Physical land, i would say we will have to play w/ it. I think this is
>> another answer that will be best reconciled via in game trial ... its hard
>> to say without knowing how the game "feels" - it could be that smaller areas
>> with dense content may feel like more than enough, or maybe we'll feel like
>> we need large rolling landscapes to invoke the proper atmosphere.
>>
>> I would imagine 1 or 2 small towns per world, and then new towns and
>> combinations, changes, etc when the worlds are smooshed together. My less is
>> more comment was more in reference to quality over quantity and also - when
>> we design things, we should try not to duplicate thing too much, i.e. one
>> magic wishing well is unique and adds flavor, make a ton of them though and
>> they lose their value.
>>
>> I know these are sort of vague answers - re: how big the world is, but its
>> hard to say really without knowing how the game will feel. hopefully this
>> first map will give us the information we need and we can design and proceed
>> accordingly.
>>
>> as far as mythology goes... my only BIG thing is i really really really
>> really (x1000) want to avoid modern fantasy cliche's like orcs, elves, etc.
>> i feel like tolkien has been tapped one too many times - but there are
>> plenty of other sources for inspiration that we can draw from that can
>> provide a lot of cool stuff for us. I like greek mythology, arabic
>> mythology, norse mythology, etc. alice in wonderland, steampunk stuff,
>> conan, fafhrd and the grey mouser, peterpan, old folklore like grimms
>> fairytales, native american legends, tall tales (John Henry FTW) etc
>>
>> one thing is i would say we can have A minotaur, but not a minotaur race -
>> we want to make a clean distinction between us and WoW :P plus, back on the
>> theme... a minotaur is unique, a race of them loses the mystique. In fact, i
>> would say that about everything fantastical - an elf is fine, a race of
>> elves is fairyland at the northpole w/ legolas - ha ha. seriously, i fucking
>> hate elfs. anyways, i would say it like this ... if we create our own race
>> of creatures, or the race in inspired by either an obscure source OR an
>> ancient myth, we can have MANY of them - im cool w/ goatmen, centaurs,
>> mermaids, mushroom men, as RACES. but if we are going to use something
>> derivative (like something tolkien, WoW, harry potter or other major modern
>> fantasy things) we should limit it to 1. Maybe my brain is broken but even
>> though I HATE ELFS - i think one elf sounds kinda cool, like mysterious,
>> where did it come from? why is it here? what is it doing? Wow and to
>> contradict myself, i think dwarves are ok too or a dwarf is neat
>> too...mythological races will be a case by case thing, maybe, and as we get
>> deeper in the mythology of the game will be further developed and things
>> like this might be answered along the way. I hope this is making some sort
>> of sense...
>>
>> On Apr 8, 2009 12:31pm, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > I would say design it with porting in mind. Everything that uses the
>> mouse interface should be able to have an analog stick representation. We
>> would also need to keep controls to a maximum of the number of buttons on an
>> XBox controller.
>> >
>> >
>> > How long will the game take to finish if one was not exploring every
>> detail?
>> >
>> > How large of a game will this be? How many NPCs will wander the world?
>> Will there be 100s? 1000s? 10000s? From the description you have given I
>> envision a "smaller" game with 100s of NPCs (or less) each NPC unique with
>> something important to provide to the player. How about physical land space?
>> Will it include many towns or fewer? Just one in each land? I guess what I'm
>> really asking is when you say less is more, how much detail do you want and
>> how large of a game will it be?
>> >
>> >
>> > If we are creating our own lore, we should have some basic monsters in
>> mind. What kind of Mythological creatues would you like to have? Like
>> Centaurs and Minotaurs or something new we make? Maybe a half otter half man
>> sea creature. Something different entirely?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 5:40 AM, eric drewes figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >
>> > yeah man, definitely like the telekenisis idea and it is in line w/ what
>> i had in mind.  I pictured a glowing hand that's range was defined by your
>> willpower/skill and could activate switches, grab items, etc.  but i really
>> like the potential for physics and stuff.  It could be balanced also because
>> i was planning on having items in the game like a whip (or hookshot, etc).
>> well i will address this in the items/eq post but yeah :)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Chris Riccobono crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > This is an awesome foundation document.  Good job writing this up, Eric.
>>  :)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > There's so many things to build off of in here.  I really like the
>> >
>> > telekinesis archetype.. it's a good way to include magic in the game
>> >
>> > in a unique way.  It'll also be great for storytelling purposes!  As
>> >
>> > for the control thing, we should definitely think about analog sticks
>> >
>> > for later on (which can easily be done with the mouse on the pc)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Legend of Mana on the ps2 had a great system that let you change the
>> >
>> > psychics of things after you grabbed them with a whip by using the
>> >
>> > analog stick.  We could create a skill implementation of that with
>> >
>> > telekinesis, where you can grab objects and manipulate them in the
>> >
>> > world using the mouse.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Messing with the speed of the movement gave a great sense of gravity
>> >
>> > too, so you felt like you were actually throwing something around.
>> >
>> > Using randomness here helps too.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:26 PM,  figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > Game objective: to provide an amazing experience to gamers by fusing
>> action adventure elements and traditional rpg gameplay - with the extra
>> twist that only WE can provide.
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Theme: the overall theme of the game is a new mythology.  I picture
>> more like greek myths, old folklore, etc rather than modern fantasy like
>> lord of the rings.  It is really important we establish our own creatures,
>> stories, myths, monsters etc.  Obviously we can be inspired by things we
>> think are great (zelda, oldschool ff's, modern rpg's) but we want it to be
>> in the universe we define and design.  In my head, the characters, npc's,
>> etc. are mostly real down to earth ppl with real problems, but they live in
>> subtly surreal world with all sorts of wonders and dangers that don't exist
>> irl.  I think a major key here is to remember-less is more.  If you have one
>> magician, he's unique and interesting, if you have 100 (like harry potter)
>> magic becomes common place and loses its *ahem* magic. If we want stuff to
>> have an impact, it is smart to keep it's mystery and rareness. Supply and
>> demand, etc. You all took economics.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Setting: this game is set in a yet unnamed world. In the beginning,
>> there are the pocket "worlds" - each representing its own self contained
>> little world of various size, including town/towns, landscape settings, etc.
>>  A world might be an island or a dessert world.  These worlds are connected
>> by doors  that progress forward towards an unknown 'final world' in a linear
>> fashion.  there are two doors hidden in each world - one forward to the next
>> world and one back towards the beginning.  When NPC's go through the doors
>> they turn into crazed demonic creatures called karzi.  For an unknown
>> reason, the main character can freely transverse through the doors - the
>> first half of the game will mostly involve the quest forward to the final
>> world.  The second half of the game is after the main character reaches the
>> final world, something happens that causes the borders between the worlds to
>> crumble creating one large interconnected worlds made up of the lands that
>> the character went through and some he didn't.  While to the character it
>> was only mere moments between the event in the final world and his arrival
>> in the new one, it is 10 years later in the now combined world.  New empires
>> have formed, aliances made, and new adventures to be had.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Character skill/stats:
>> >
>> > > The stat system is going to be deep and interconnected with other
>> systems and stats in the game.  Things like speed will affect both overworld
>> movement and combat speed.  Besides the standard stats like strength,
>> quickness, speed, constition, etc. there will also be auxillary stats
>> involving the character's will power. These stats are aggression and
>> discipline - these stats affect things like going berserk, getting scared,
>> etc. which will have influences on combat.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Stats:
>> >
>> > > Strength: influences damage, lifting ability, critical hits.
>> >
>> > > Quickness: influences dodging, rt, speed running
>> >
>> > > Constitution: affects HP, stamina, lifting ability
>> >
>> > > Will: influences discipline/agression system, magic abilty
>> >
>> > > Charisma: influences ppl's reaction towards you, ability to recruit,
>> some magic, also influences faction stuff. (Maybe there's order charisma and
>> chaos charisma and some ppl are attracted to either or neutrality)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > Perception: influences dodging, also makes things like traps, secret
>> doors, hidden treasure, etc glow.
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Skill intro:
>> >
>> > > There are basic skills, master skills, and perks. Basic skills are the
>> skills everyone has.. Things like parrying, swinging a weapon, dodging,
>> swimming, jumping, etc (all affected by stats) and then there are master
>> skills which basically is how classes are defined.  Master skills are skills
>> that "level up" and give bonus perks and abilities in combat.  An example of
>> this would be like final fantasy skills like swordtech for cyan or blitz for
>> saban.  Another example of a master skill is magic. Perks are things that
>> can affect overworld or combat, like a quickdraw perk that gives you first
>> strike more often, lockpicking, an ability to sense if certain
>> creatures/characters have magic ability... There can be a ton.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Ahhh magic:
>> >
>> > > Yes there will be magic.  It will not be like magic in normal games.
>> Magic. in this game is all about imposing your will on the world around you.
>>  Instead of using the elements, etc. Magic will be used to do telekenisis,
>> mind control, mentally destroying the enemies, and bend physical reality
>> etc. Now that's not to say we can't have crazy bad ass spells, as mages can
>> warp reality and the world around them using the power of their will...
>> Causing rock spikes to burst from a boulder, etc. Also telekenisis can be
>> used in the overworld, its range and strength varying on will power and
>> magic skill. Perhaps further power in magic would allow time manipulation,
>> etc.  Very very few ppl in the world can use magic, and it is secretive and
>> looked at as evil.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Movement in the world:
>> >
>> > > The main character can run, jump, climb, etc.  Exploring is going to
>> be an adventure, with things like ropes to swing across, places to jump,
>> things to dodge, etc.  I am picturing indiana jones type of things with
>> giant boulders, darts shooting from the wlals, spike rooms, places to swim,
>> etc. Just a lot of cool actiony things to challenge the gamer.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Combat:
>> >
>> > > Combat is initiated by bumping into or being ambushed by an enemy.  It
>> will change screens to a combat screen like a traditional rpg but it will
>> not be standard turn based action once in.  What it will be is something I
>> have termed the "slip strike" system.  Basically combat will be like a
>> bizarre chimera of mike tyson's punchout, gemstone and final fantasy.
>>  Basically you control your character by selecting a command and then
>> deciding when to execute it - while waiting you will actively control a
>> block/parry/dodge defense and when you see an opening you'd execute.  I can
>> see this system being awesome, but perhaps overwelming. Maybe the beginning
>> will be standard atb combat and only at the end is this... We'll have to
>> play with it and find what is fun.  Status effects like being maimed, etc
>> will affect dodging and can either be made via critical hits or damage
>> inflicted by overworld obstacles/etc.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Important notes, re: combat -
>> >
>> > > To grind or not to grind, that is the question... Basically, there are
>> going to be two kinds of areas in this game, explore areas and grind areas,
>> now grind areas can have adventuring and explore areas can have combat and
>> enemies, but we want to keep in mind the theme of the area.  Basically it is
>> my belief that every battle should be dangerous and challenging and pose an
>> actual threat to the player. Rather than make the game a war of attrition as
>> the main character plows through an endless horde of weak enemies, all the
>> fights in an adventure area should be meaningful.  Less enemies, more epic
>> fights basically.  There will, of course, be grind areas too where you can
>> do battle for the hell of it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Party member:
>> >
>> > > Two quick things here... This is subject to change depending on how
>> the combat system plays out but basically you'd either control your group
>> actively like ff or dq or issue them general commands.  This will need
>> tweaking once we get in.  The other aspect of party members that is
>> important is this... I want death to be meaningful - losing a party member
>> is easy to ignore if you can just ressurect them in battle or right
>> afterwards, there is no concequence.  My solution is this: if a party member
>> dies, they go to a node and you have to go to the node to jail break them
>> out and have them rejoin your party.  We could have these nodes in various
>> places and it could add an element to gameplay.  Obviously, this will need
>> to be balanced out, etc.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Character creation, the first level:
>> >
>> > > Basically you pick your face and general looks and the screen fades
>> and your character appears in a black void.  An NPC (character in hat/cloak)
>> explains that its time to test you and you are put through (I like 3
>> randomly ordered with a secret 4th one that pops up occasionally and maybe
>> imbues special powers or only 4th test ppl can learn magic). How the player
>> plays out the tests gives them a general starting point for their stats,
>> skills and perks.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > THE TRIALS:
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Test 1 - cave - you are shoved through a door, tumble down 1000 steps
>> and arrive at the foot of a cave.  The cave has treasure and a warning not
>> to touch it. There will be various ways through the cave (like going through
>> a trapped tunnel, dodging the traps gives appropriate bonuses, also just
>> being a crazy mofo and walking through does too. There is no way to lose -
>> its a test of character). I also like barriers you could smash down or try
>> to pick. Also I think there could be an avarice/generousity system which
>> would balance by ppl liking you or finding more loot.  At the end of the
>> cave there is a door leading to the next quest. There is a lot of neat stuff
>> we could do here.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Test 2 - you come out the door and are on a ship.  The ship is a
>> warship.  You make choices depending on information you find by talking to
>> crew members, items you find, and talking to the prisoners.  The outcomes
>> could be things like... You free the prisoners, there's a mutiny, you escape
>> via lifeboat, you join the crew of the warship.  We can flesh this out but
>> what I have in mind is that there's conflicting stories which makes the
>> outcome seem morally ambiguous and maybe the best solution is only revealed
>> if you're super perceptive and find the right clue.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Test 3 - the tower - the tower is basically a spiral tower upwards
>> with traps, monsters and treasure but no real storyline.  This will just
>> help flesh out the character stats.
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Remember, these tests are random so no specific order...
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Test 4 - you go through a door and end up in the cloaked man's room.
>> He asks how you got there, you answer some questions and he decides whether
>> to teach you magic and maybe what kind (physical magic that helps enhance
>> physical skills ... Maybe an example would be double jump or jedi like
>> stuff, mental magic which was discussed above, or a hybrid) magic probably
>> comes at a prohibitive cost so that it balances w/ non magic players (I.e.
>> The path of magic is harder but had awesome rewards ... It isn't for
>> everyone). Maybe the cloaked man asks you what you sacrifice from a list we
>> can develop. Afterwards, he pushes you out the door and end up in either one
>> of the untaken tests or the exit .
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > The first world: we'll need a town and storyline for this, and include
>> the cave we are making now... The rest of the storya nd environments need to
>> be developed but I figure by the time we get to the first town, we'll be
>> rolling along pretty good.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > This is basically just an overview... Obviously many things need to be
>> fleshed out, decided, tested, perfected...but I figure this would give a
>> nice starting platform to work off of.
>> >
>> > > Things like the mechanics of skills, stats and the perk system will
>> need to be laid out in more detail but I think this is a nice start.
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Thanks,
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Eric
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>> >
>> >
>> >
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