[project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, partylist, matchups and tagteaming

  • From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:13:29 -0700

what do you mean kent?

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Will prevention for repetition (such as repeating levels) be in dungeon /
> character / enemy design with a lot of fine balance as opposed to altering
> the concepts of how losing works?
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> I thought the experience giving you tickets thing was seperate from the
>> dying thing, but the rest sounds right as far as i understand it yeah
>>   On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:40 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>> Alan: I agree that the death scenario should not be for every time but
>>> for a few times that make sense for an extra bonus.
>>>
>>> What did we settle on for saving and dieing? Game autosaves when you hit
>>> a savepoint and when you die you return to your save point with everything
>>> reset. Any experience earned turns into some kind of bonus point that can be
>>> spent on games?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Matthew Morgan <MMorgan@xxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Gotcha!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>>>> project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Alan Wolfe
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:34 AM
>>>>
>>>> *To:* project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> *Subject:* [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status,
>>>> partylist, matchups and tagteaming
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From the tech side, no reason why we can't do both (:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not sure what the plan is though
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Matthew Morgan <MMorgan@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have a q, are the minigames in all the towns, or is it wandering
>>>> vendors (like the guys in fallout who sell stuff?).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>>>> project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Alan Wolfe
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:25 AM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *To:* project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> *Subject:* [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status,
>>>> partylist, matchups and tagteaming
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ok we can just do a straight up load last save game on death, and have
>>>> spirit nodes do autosaves.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> easier to program so im all for it! (:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yeah your ticket idea sounds good to me
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:20 AM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Alan, I think maybe the character doesn't keep exp... Ppl could exploit
>>>> that by killing some high exp boss, die and repeat... I was thinking that
>>>> thing where it keeps track of your total player earned exp and can trade it
>>>> to get minigame tickets - did you not like that idea?
>>>>
>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> *From*: Matthew Morgan
>>>> *Date*: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:02:02 -0700
>>>> *To*: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Subject*: [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party
>>>> list, matchups and tagteaming
>>>>
>>>> That makes perfect sense, the only thing you get to keep is exp, so that
>>>> would just overwrite after every battle, and everything else would get 
>>>> saved
>>>> only if in a node?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>>>> project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]*On Behalf Of *Alan Wolfe
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:01 AM
>>>> *To:* project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> *Subject:* [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party
>>>> list, matchups and tagteaming
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ok so when you die it does a load of the save it made when you were at
>>>> the last node (or your last save game if you havent hit a node yet?) and
>>>> resets everything to that point, but keeps any experience you've gained.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> sound right?
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 9:08 AM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I dunno about gold
>>>>
>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> *From*: Alan Wolfe
>>>> *Date*: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:06:50 -0700
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *To*: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> *Subject*: [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party
>>>> list, matchups and tagteaming
>>>>
>>>> Ok so lose all items but keep exp and gold?
>>>>
>>>> i think thats doable.
>>>>
>>>> I think i'll just have it do the game save / load idea, but make it
>>>> over-write the exp and gold after load with your at death exp and gold.
>>>>
>>>> any other values we want to persist past death we can do in a similar
>>>> manner too (:
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm with Eric, you don't want to let them keep items when they die. I
>>>> think keeping experience is good. If we design our dungeons properly there
>>>> should be no reason for a boring walk back to town anyway. All levels 
>>>> should
>>>> be engaging at all times, especially when they are almost finished. That's
>>>> when you should pull out the big surprises.
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking you could do it DnD style where your not really dead
>>>> untill you achieve negative 10 life. So when you hit 0 your player or party
>>>> member is knocked out and unusable. If you don't swap them out of combat
>>>> they can still be targeted. If a knocked out player (a player with 0 life)
>>>> is damaged further they can die, perhaps if your maxlife (as eric described
>>>> above) drops below 0. A complete loss will only occur when everyone is dead
>>>> and the player should not be able to be killed but only knocked out to 0
>>>> life. If there are no surviving party members to first aid him then the 
>>>> team
>>>> loses and returns to a node.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> that makes sense about the knockout before dying.
>>>>
>>>> About not keeping items that makes sense.
>>>>
>>>> Should they keep exp even then?
>>>>
>>>> If not, we could just do an automatic game save at the spirit node and
>>>> then load that when they died.
>>>>
>>>> Can you think of a situation you'll ever want to do that is an exception
>>>> to the rule?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:49 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> turnbased fantasy rpg version of americas army style gameplay  :-P
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That sounds decent (:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:45 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> well i think health would probably work like a hybrid of halo and marvel
>>>> vs capcom where you have two health bars, current life and max life, your
>>>> current life can go up via auto healing or first aid, but your max life
>>>> cannot be restored unless you're in a town.
>>>>
>>>> example:
>>>>
>>>> main character has:
>>>> max hp 100
>>>> current hp 100
>>>>
>>>> he gets punched, losing life
>>>> max hp 90
>>>> current hp 70
>>>>
>>>> now he uses first aid, bringing him back up to 90 (100 is truemax, but
>>>> he cannot attain that)
>>>> max hp 90
>>>> current hp 90
>>>>
>>>> this will also influence the strategy of party set up, tagteaming, etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hey just thought of something else too...
>>>>
>>>> Eric if you hate the war of attrition we could go the route of the
>>>> modern games (or at least try it) like halo where you have hp but it
>>>> recovers over time (like when you are in back row or maybe not in combat...
>>>> or potentially all the time?)
>>>>
>>>> Not sure if its a good idea, but its an idea :P
>>>>
>>>> lol
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I like the FF view better myself.
>>>>
>>>> I'm am curious for the answer to Alan's questions as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:32 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 100% definitely.  either ff style or maybe where its 3rd person over teh
>>>> shoulder style.  i think you should be able to see them and with our
>>>> gameplay style i think it'll be needed to show whats going on - visually 
>>>> and
>>>> mechanically it'll be better.  i was actually gonna bring this up when we
>>>> got into more detailed combat stuff :) glad we're on the same page there
>>>> too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> BTW what do you think about us changing our battle view from the dragon
>>>> quest 5 view to the final fantasy view?
>>>>
>>>> I kinda miss being able to see the characters, and see the weapons /
>>>> attacks and skills the players use.
>>>>
>>>> I think it makes the combat more epic and fun. Like think of fighting
>>>> vargas or ultros where you see his tentacles slap your players, can you
>>>> remember a fight like that at all in DQ5? i cant...most of the fights are
>>>> unmemoriable, except for the ones where like 10 slimes form into the slime
>>>> king hehe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think switching out your characters could work, that kinda sounds cool
>>>> and i can picture it in my head.
>>>>
>>>> When you would switch, would you be able to switch any turn of combat,
>>>> only the first, or what?  Also is there a penalty to switching or is it for
>>>> free?  I'm just curious cause if one guy was dying you could swap him out
>>>> with another and have a fresh guy, is that ok?
>>>>
>>>> If so we could do soemthing like marvel vs capcom i think it was, where
>>>> the team mates that are in the back row and not fighting slowly heal their
>>>> wounds (in this case they heal a small amount as round time progresses) 
>>>> what
>>>> you think?  If that is too overpowered, it could be something like they can
>>>> only heal maximum up to the life they had before they got struck in the
>>>> current battle.
>>>>
>>>> Being held by one character and attacked by another makes sense.  Maybe
>>>> its a skill, and what happens is when you use that skill, the character 
>>>> that
>>>> used it has to keep using it each turn to hold onto the monster and that
>>>> monster basically struggles each turn where it has some chance to escape 
>>>> but
>>>> that uses up it's turn.  Just like real life if you oare outnumbered,
>>>> grabbing hold of someone or wrestling around with them wouldnt be a good
>>>> idea cause his buddies would kick your butt, but if there is like 1 monster
>>>> left it could be a cool skill.  Like havin a guy like sabin be able to grab
>>>> the last enemy and hold him while your other guys hit him would be a pretty
>>>> useful skill (:
>>>>
>>>> About the player never dying, on one hand i could see that working but
>>>> on the other, couldnt you just scrape through anyhwere by walking through a
>>>> dungeon and getting knocked out at each fight?  How do you balance that 
>>>> out?
>>>>
>>>> Some cool ideas!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 6:36 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ok here is how i am thinking parties will work in combat...
>>>>
>>>> there will be 3 active party members in any fight and 4 on the sidelines
>>>> that can be "tagged in" (swapped) as a combat option for any of the active
>>>> players INCLUDING the hero. this will allow you to sub out injured
>>>> characters for fresh healthy ones, or if you want two people that can do a
>>>> special attack, you can have them sub in to pull of a coup de grace, or
>>>> maybe there is a MATCHUP you want to exploit.
>>>>
>>>> Matchups? Huh?
>>>>
>>>> Matchups are basically already existing in games but without anything to
>>>> quantify them.  basically, if you're in battle against a big slow ogre or
>>>> something, you can adjust your party to better match up w/ the enemy
>>>> (enemies) you're fighting.  Maybe you want a big dude that can go
>>>> mano-y-mano with the ogre, or a small quick dude who can exploit the ogre's
>>>> plodding attack and slow defense.  Maybe you're up against a flying 
>>>> creature
>>>> and arrows will be the best way to bring them down when standard attacks
>>>> seem ineffectual.   Picking the best match up for what you're going against
>>>> can mean the difference of life and death.
>>>>
>>>> Injuries/status - we don't just want fights to be wars of attrition
>>>> where you attack attack attack and try to slowly drain your foes life (and
>>>> vice versa) - in real life, this would be the equivelent of standing in
>>>> front of someone and punching them back and forth until someone died.
>>>> Silly!  i think most (if not all) of us are experienced martial artists and
>>>> we know fights don't work like that, there are holds, throws, etc that can
>>>> put your opponent in compromising situations that give you the advantage.
>>>> Add weapons to this and we have a fun system that is more dynamic than the
>>>> typical rpg combat system.  Examples of this would be sweeps/tackles/throws
>>>> that leave the enemy prone and thus unable to defend themselves as well, or
>>>> entangled via nets, maybe even HELD by one character while the others beat
>>>> it up (could we do this)?  or maybe getting maimed or hamstrung knocks you
>>>> over, getting stunned (like street fighter when you do a certain 
>>>> combination
>>>> the enemy can't move and has birds flying above their head) is another
>>>> example.
>>>>
>>>> This style of combat would add a lot of depth and strategy and make
>>>> combat feel more "alive" and dangerous and fun.  Also it adds a lot of
>>>> potential skills and techniques to our future list
>>>>
>>>> Injuries - with our injury and death system, swapping to keep your team
>>>> healthy is important.  This is kind of a big thing but I am sort of leaning
>>>> towards thinking maybe MAYBE the hero can't die.  everyone else can, but if
>>>> the hero is "knocked out" in battle, he's back after the fight. he can then
>>>> go forward to try to find the next respawn node or maybe theres a "Recall"
>>>> option where you can revert to the start of the dungeon with all your party
>>>> members intact.  i think this will eliminate a lot of frustration as well 
>>>> as
>>>> prevent people from keeping the hero on the sidelines worried he will die.
>>>>
>>>> just as a quick guess... i am thinking you get 7 active party members (3
>>>> active, 4 tagteamable) and then an additional 7 back at your "home base"
>>>> that you can swap out ff style whenever you're there for a total of 14 in
>>>> your party.  We will (ideally) have 40-50 recruitable characters so this
>>>> forces you to make some decisions on who you want to pick but also gives 
>>>> you
>>>> a large stable of characters so you don't feel like "shit, i have to give 
>>>> up
>>>> one of my favs".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just some thoughts... let me know what you think!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

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