[project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, partylist, matchups and tagteaming

  • From: Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:56:44 -0700

Will prevention for repetition (such as repeating levels) be in dungeon /
character / enemy design with a lot of fine balance as opposed to altering
the concepts of how losing works?

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> I thought the experience giving you tickets thing was seperate from the
> dying thing, but the rest sounds right as far as i understand it yeah
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:40 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Alan: I agree that the death scenario should not be for every time but for
>> a few times that make sense for an extra bonus.
>>
>> What did we settle on for saving and dieing? Game autosaves when you hit a
>> savepoint and when you die you return to your save point with everything
>> reset. Any experience earned turns into some kind of bonus point that can be
>> spent on games?
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Matthew Morgan <MMorgan@xxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>>  Gotcha!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>>> project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Alan Wolfe
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:34 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> *Subject:* [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status,
>>> partylist, matchups and tagteaming
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From the tech side, no reason why we can't do both (:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Not sure what the plan is though
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Matthew Morgan <MMorgan@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a q, are the minigames in all the towns, or is it wandering
>>> vendors (like the guys in fallout who sell stuff?).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>>> project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Alan Wolfe
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:25 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> *To:* project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> *Subject:* [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status,
>>> partylist, matchups and tagteaming
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ok we can just do a straight up load last save game on death, and have
>>> spirit nodes do autosaves.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> easier to program so im all for it! (:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah your ticket idea sounds good to me
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:20 AM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> Alan, I think maybe the character doesn't keep exp... Ppl could exploit
>>> that by killing some high exp boss, die and repeat... I was thinking that
>>> thing where it keeps track of your total player earned exp and can trade it
>>> to get minigame tickets - did you not like that idea?
>>>
>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>  ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From*: Matthew Morgan
>>> *Date*: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:02:02 -0700
>>> *To*: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Subject*: [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party
>>> list, matchups and tagteaming
>>>
>>> That makes perfect sense, the only thing you get to keep is exp, so that
>>> would just overwrite after every battle, and everything else would get saved
>>> only if in a node?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>>> project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]*On Behalf Of *Alan Wolfe
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:01 AM
>>> *To:* project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> *Subject:* [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party
>>> list, matchups and tagteaming
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ok so when you die it does a load of the save it made when you were at
>>> the last node (or your last save game if you havent hit a node yet?) and
>>> resets everything to that point, but keeps any experience you've gained.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> sound right?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 9:08 AM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> I dunno about gold
>>>
>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>  ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From*: Alan Wolfe
>>> *Date*: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:06:50 -0700
>>>
>>>
>>> *To*: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> *Subject*: [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party
>>> list, matchups and tagteaming
>>>
>>> Ok so lose all items but keep exp and gold?
>>>
>>> i think thats doable.
>>>
>>> I think i'll just have it do the game save / load idea, but make it
>>> over-write the exp and gold after load with your at death exp and gold.
>>>
>>> any other values we want to persist past death we can do in a similar
>>> manner too (:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm with Eric, you don't want to let them keep items when they die. I
>>> think keeping experience is good. If we design our dungeons properly there
>>> should be no reason for a boring walk back to town anyway. All levels should
>>> be engaging at all times, especially when they are almost finished. That's
>>> when you should pull out the big surprises.
>>>
>>> I was thinking you could do it DnD style where your not really dead
>>> untill you achieve negative 10 life. So when you hit 0 your player or party
>>> member is knocked out and unusable. If you don't swap them out of combat
>>> they can still be targeted. If a knocked out player (a player with 0 life)
>>> is damaged further they can die, perhaps if your maxlife (as eric described
>>> above) drops below 0. A complete loss will only occur when everyone is dead
>>> and the player should not be able to be killed but only knocked out to 0
>>> life. If there are no surviving party members to first aid him then the team
>>> loses and returns to a node.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> that makes sense about the knockout before dying.
>>>
>>> About not keeping items that makes sense.
>>>
>>> Should they keep exp even then?
>>>
>>> If not, we could just do an automatic game save at the spirit node and
>>> then load that when they died.
>>>
>>> Can you think of a situation you'll ever want to do that is an exception
>>> to the rule?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:49 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> turnbased fantasy rpg version of americas army style gameplay  :-P
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> That sounds decent (:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:45 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> well i think health would probably work like a hybrid of halo and marvel
>>> vs capcom where you have two health bars, current life and max life, your
>>> current life can go up via auto healing or first aid, but your max life
>>> cannot be restored unless you're in a town.
>>>
>>> example:
>>>
>>> main character has:
>>> max hp 100
>>> current hp 100
>>>
>>> he gets punched, losing life
>>> max hp 90
>>> current hp 70
>>>
>>> now he uses first aid, bringing him back up to 90 (100 is truemax, but he
>>> cannot attain that)
>>> max hp 90
>>> current hp 90
>>>
>>> this will also influence the strategy of party set up, tagteaming, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey just thought of something else too...
>>>
>>> Eric if you hate the war of attrition we could go the route of the modern
>>> games (or at least try it) like halo where you have hp but it recovers over
>>> time (like when you are in back row or maybe not in combat... or potentially
>>> all the time?)
>>>
>>> Not sure if its a good idea, but its an idea :P
>>>
>>> lol
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I like the FF view better myself.
>>>
>>> I'm am curious for the answer to Alan's questions as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:32 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> 100% definitely.  either ff style or maybe where its 3rd person over teh
>>> shoulder style.  i think you should be able to see them and with our
>>> gameplay style i think it'll be needed to show whats going on - visually and
>>> mechanically it'll be better.  i was actually gonna bring this up when we
>>> got into more detailed combat stuff :) glad we're on the same page there
>>> too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> BTW what do you think about us changing our battle view from the dragon
>>> quest 5 view to the final fantasy view?
>>>
>>> I kinda miss being able to see the characters, and see the weapons /
>>> attacks and skills the players use.
>>>
>>> I think it makes the combat more epic and fun. Like think of fighting
>>> vargas or ultros where you see his tentacles slap your players, can you
>>> remember a fight like that at all in DQ5? i cant...most of the fights are
>>> unmemoriable, except for the ones where like 10 slimes form into the slime
>>> king hehe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think switching out your characters could work, that kinda sounds cool
>>> and i can picture it in my head.
>>>
>>> When you would switch, would you be able to switch any turn of combat,
>>> only the first, or what?  Also is there a penalty to switching or is it for
>>> free?  I'm just curious cause if one guy was dying you could swap him out
>>> with another and have a fresh guy, is that ok?
>>>
>>> If so we could do soemthing like marvel vs capcom i think it was, where
>>> the team mates that are in the back row and not fighting slowly heal their
>>> wounds (in this case they heal a small amount as round time progresses) what
>>> you think?  If that is too overpowered, it could be something like they can
>>> only heal maximum up to the life they had before they got struck in the
>>> current battle.
>>>
>>> Being held by one character and attacked by another makes sense.  Maybe
>>> its a skill, and what happens is when you use that skill, the character that
>>> used it has to keep using it each turn to hold onto the monster and that
>>> monster basically struggles each turn where it has some chance to escape but
>>> that uses up it's turn.  Just like real life if you oare outnumbered,
>>> grabbing hold of someone or wrestling around with them wouldnt be a good
>>> idea cause his buddies would kick your butt, but if there is like 1 monster
>>> left it could be a cool skill.  Like havin a guy like sabin be able to grab
>>> the last enemy and hold him while your other guys hit him would be a pretty
>>> useful skill (:
>>>
>>> About the player never dying, on one hand i could see that working but on
>>> the other, couldnt you just scrape through anyhwere by walking through a
>>> dungeon and getting knocked out at each fight?  How do you balance that out?
>>>
>>> Some cool ideas!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 6:36 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> ok here is how i am thinking parties will work in combat...
>>>
>>> there will be 3 active party members in any fight and 4 on the sidelines
>>> that can be "tagged in" (swapped) as a combat option for any of the active
>>> players INCLUDING the hero. this will allow you to sub out injured
>>> characters for fresh healthy ones, or if you want two people that can do a
>>> special attack, you can have them sub in to pull of a coup de grace, or
>>> maybe there is a MATCHUP you want to exploit.
>>>
>>> Matchups? Huh?
>>>
>>> Matchups are basically already existing in games but without anything to
>>> quantify them.  basically, if you're in battle against a big slow ogre or
>>> something, you can adjust your party to better match up w/ the enemy
>>> (enemies) you're fighting.  Maybe you want a big dude that can go
>>> mano-y-mano with the ogre, or a small quick dude who can exploit the ogre's
>>> plodding attack and slow defense.  Maybe you're up against a flying creature
>>> and arrows will be the best way to bring them down when standard attacks
>>> seem ineffectual.   Picking the best match up for what you're going against
>>> can mean the difference of life and death.
>>>
>>> Injuries/status - we don't just want fights to be wars of attrition where
>>> you attack attack attack and try to slowly drain your foes life (and vice
>>> versa) - in real life, this would be the equivelent of standing in front of
>>> someone and punching them back and forth until someone died.  Silly!  i
>>> think most (if not all) of us are experienced martial artists and we know
>>> fights don't work like that, there are holds, throws, etc that can put your
>>> opponent in compromising situations that give you the advantage.  Add
>>> weapons to this and we have a fun system that is more dynamic than the
>>> typical rpg combat system.  Examples of this would be sweeps/tackles/throws
>>> that leave the enemy prone and thus unable to defend themselves as well, or
>>> entangled via nets, maybe even HELD by one character while the others beat
>>> it up (could we do this)?  or maybe getting maimed or hamstrung knocks you
>>> over, getting stunned (like street fighter when you do a certain combination
>>> the enemy can't move and has birds flying above their head) is another
>>> example.
>>>
>>> This style of combat would add a lot of depth and strategy and make
>>> combat feel more "alive" and dangerous and fun.  Also it adds a lot of
>>> potential skills and techniques to our future list
>>>
>>> Injuries - with our injury and death system, swapping to keep your team
>>> healthy is important.  This is kind of a big thing but I am sort of leaning
>>> towards thinking maybe MAYBE the hero can't die.  everyone else can, but if
>>> the hero is "knocked out" in battle, he's back after the fight. he can then
>>> go forward to try to find the next respawn node or maybe theres a "Recall"
>>> option where you can revert to the start of the dungeon with all your party
>>> members intact.  i think this will eliminate a lot of frustration as well as
>>> prevent people from keeping the hero on the sidelines worried he will die.
>>>
>>> just as a quick guess... i am thinking you get 7 active party members (3
>>> active, 4 tagteamable) and then an additional 7 back at your "home base"
>>> that you can swap out ff style whenever you're there for a total of 14 in
>>> your party.  We will (ideally) have 40-50 recruitable characters so this
>>> forces you to make some decisions on who you want to pick but also gives you
>>> a large stable of characters so you don't feel like "shit, i have to give up
>>> one of my favs".
>>>
>>>
>>> Just some thoughts... let me know what you think!
>>>
>>>
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>>>  ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>

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