[project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, partylist, matchups and tagteaming

  • From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:44:02 -0700

I thought the experience giving you tickets thing was seperate from the
dying thing, but the rest sounds right as far as i understand it yeah
On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:40 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Alan: I agree that the death scenario should not be for every time but for
> a few times that make sense for an extra bonus.
>
> What did we settle on for saving and dieing? Game autosaves when you hit a
> savepoint and when you die you return to your save point with everything
> reset. Any experience earned turns into some kind of bonus point that can be
> spent on games?
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Matthew Morgan <MMorgan@xxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>>  Gotcha!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>> project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Alan Wolfe
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:34 AM
>>
>> *To:* project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> *Subject:* [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status,
>> partylist, matchups and tagteaming
>>
>>
>>
>> From the tech side, no reason why we can't do both (:
>>
>>
>>
>> Not sure what the plan is though
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Matthew Morgan <MMorgan@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I have a q, are the minigames in all the towns, or is it wandering vendors
>> (like the guys in fallout who sell stuff?).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>> project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Alan Wolfe
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:25 AM
>>
>>
>> *To:* project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> *Subject:* [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status,
>> partylist, matchups and tagteaming
>>
>>
>>
>> ok we can just do a straight up load last save game on death, and have
>> spirit nodes do autosaves.
>>
>>
>>
>> easier to program so im all for it! (:
>>
>>
>>
>> Yeah your ticket idea sounds good to me
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:20 AM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> Alan, I think maybe the character doesn't keep exp... Ppl could exploit
>> that by killing some high exp boss, die and repeat... I was thinking that
>> thing where it keeps track of your total player earned exp and can trade it
>> to get minigame tickets - did you not like that idea?
>>
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>> *From*: Matthew Morgan
>> *Date*: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:02:02 -0700
>> *To*: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>
>> *Subject*: [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party
>> list, matchups and tagteaming
>>
>> That makes perfect sense, the only thing you get to keep is exp, so that
>> would just overwrite after every battle, and everything else would get saved
>> only if in a node?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>> project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]*On Behalf Of *Alan Wolfe
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:01 AM
>> *To:* project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> *Subject:* [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party
>> list, matchups and tagteaming
>>
>>
>>
>> ok so when you die it does a load of the save it made when you were at the
>> last node (or your last save game if you havent hit a node yet?) and resets
>> everything to that point, but keeps any experience you've gained.
>>
>>
>>
>> sound right?
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 9:08 AM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> I dunno about gold
>>
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>> *From*: Alan Wolfe
>> *Date*: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:06:50 -0700
>>
>>
>> *To*: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> *Subject*: [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party
>> list, matchups and tagteaming
>>
>> Ok so lose all items but keep exp and gold?
>>
>> i think thats doable.
>>
>> I think i'll just have it do the game save / load idea, but make it
>> over-write the exp and gold after load with your at death exp and gold.
>>
>> any other values we want to persist past death we can do in a similar
>> manner too (:
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> I'm with Eric, you don't want to let them keep items when they die. I
>> think keeping experience is good. If we design our dungeons properly there
>> should be no reason for a boring walk back to town anyway. All levels should
>> be engaging at all times, especially when they are almost finished. That's
>> when you should pull out the big surprises.
>>
>> I was thinking you could do it DnD style where your not really dead untill
>> you achieve negative 10 life. So when you hit 0 your player or party member
>> is knocked out and unusable. If you don't swap them out of combat they can
>> still be targeted. If a knocked out player (a player with 0 life) is damaged
>> further they can die, perhaps if your maxlife (as eric described above)
>> drops below 0. A complete loss will only occur when everyone is dead and the
>> player should not be able to be killed but only knocked out to 0 life. If
>> there are no surviving party members to first aid him then the team loses
>> and returns to a node.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> that makes sense about the knockout before dying.
>>
>> About not keeping items that makes sense.
>>
>> Should they keep exp even then?
>>
>> If not, we could just do an automatic game save at the spirit node and
>> then load that when they died.
>>
>> Can you think of a situation you'll ever want to do that is an exception
>> to the rule?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:49 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> turnbased fantasy rpg version of americas army style gameplay  :-P
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>> That sounds decent (:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:45 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> well i think health would probably work like a hybrid of halo and marvel
>> vs capcom where you have two health bars, current life and max life, your
>> current life can go up via auto healing or first aid, but your max life
>> cannot be restored unless you're in a town.
>>
>> example:
>>
>> main character has:
>> max hp 100
>> current hp 100
>>
>> he gets punched, losing life
>> max hp 90
>> current hp 70
>>
>> now he uses first aid, bringing him back up to 90 (100 is truemax, but he
>> cannot attain that)
>> max hp 90
>> current hp 90
>>
>> this will also influence the strategy of party set up, tagteaming, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hey just thought of something else too...
>>
>> Eric if you hate the war of attrition we could go the route of the modern
>> games (or at least try it) like halo where you have hp but it recovers over
>> time (like when you are in back row or maybe not in combat... or potentially
>> all the time?)
>>
>> Not sure if its a good idea, but its an idea :P
>>
>> lol
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> I like the FF view better myself.
>>
>> I'm am curious for the answer to Alan's questions as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:32 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> 100% definitely.  either ff style or maybe where its 3rd person over teh
>> shoulder style.  i think you should be able to see them and with our
>> gameplay style i think it'll be needed to show whats going on - visually and
>> mechanically it'll be better.  i was actually gonna bring this up when we
>> got into more detailed combat stuff :) glad we're on the same page there
>> too.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>> BTW what do you think about us changing our battle view from the dragon
>> quest 5 view to the final fantasy view?
>>
>> I kinda miss being able to see the characters, and see the weapons /
>> attacks and skills the players use.
>>
>> I think it makes the combat more epic and fun. Like think of fighting
>> vargas or ultros where you see his tentacles slap your players, can you
>> remember a fight like that at all in DQ5? i cant...most of the fights are
>> unmemoriable, except for the ones where like 10 slimes form into the slime
>> king hehe
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> I think switching out your characters could work, that kinda sounds cool
>> and i can picture it in my head.
>>
>> When you would switch, would you be able to switch any turn of combat,
>> only the first, or what?  Also is there a penalty to switching or is it for
>> free?  I'm just curious cause if one guy was dying you could swap him out
>> with another and have a fresh guy, is that ok?
>>
>> If so we could do soemthing like marvel vs capcom i think it was, where
>> the team mates that are in the back row and not fighting slowly heal their
>> wounds (in this case they heal a small amount as round time progresses) what
>> you think?  If that is too overpowered, it could be something like they can
>> only heal maximum up to the life they had before they got struck in the
>> current battle.
>>
>> Being held by one character and attacked by another makes sense.  Maybe
>> its a skill, and what happens is when you use that skill, the character that
>> used it has to keep using it each turn to hold onto the monster and that
>> monster basically struggles each turn where it has some chance to escape but
>> that uses up it's turn.  Just like real life if you oare outnumbered,
>> grabbing hold of someone or wrestling around with them wouldnt be a good
>> idea cause his buddies would kick your butt, but if there is like 1 monster
>> left it could be a cool skill.  Like havin a guy like sabin be able to grab
>> the last enemy and hold him while your other guys hit him would be a pretty
>> useful skill (:
>>
>> About the player never dying, on one hand i could see that working but on
>> the other, couldnt you just scrape through anyhwere by walking through a
>> dungeon and getting knocked out at each fight?  How do you balance that out?
>>
>> Some cool ideas!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 6:36 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> ok here is how i am thinking parties will work in combat...
>>
>> there will be 3 active party members in any fight and 4 on the sidelines
>> that can be "tagged in" (swapped) as a combat option for any of the active
>> players INCLUDING the hero. this will allow you to sub out injured
>> characters for fresh healthy ones, or if you want two people that can do a
>> special attack, you can have them sub in to pull of a coup de grace, or
>> maybe there is a MATCHUP you want to exploit.
>>
>> Matchups? Huh?
>>
>> Matchups are basically already existing in games but without anything to
>> quantify them.  basically, if you're in battle against a big slow ogre or
>> something, you can adjust your party to better match up w/ the enemy
>> (enemies) you're fighting.  Maybe you want a big dude that can go
>> mano-y-mano with the ogre, or a small quick dude who can exploit the ogre's
>> plodding attack and slow defense.  Maybe you're up against a flying creature
>> and arrows will be the best way to bring them down when standard attacks
>> seem ineffectual.   Picking the best match up for what you're going against
>> can mean the difference of life and death.
>>
>> Injuries/status - we don't just want fights to be wars of attrition where
>> you attack attack attack and try to slowly drain your foes life (and vice
>> versa) - in real life, this would be the equivelent of standing in front of
>> someone and punching them back and forth until someone died.  Silly!  i
>> think most (if not all) of us are experienced martial artists and we know
>> fights don't work like that, there are holds, throws, etc that can put your
>> opponent in compromising situations that give you the advantage.  Add
>> weapons to this and we have a fun system that is more dynamic than the
>> typical rpg combat system.  Examples of this would be sweeps/tackles/throws
>> that leave the enemy prone and thus unable to defend themselves as well, or
>> entangled via nets, maybe even HELD by one character while the others beat
>> it up (could we do this)?  or maybe getting maimed or hamstrung knocks you
>> over, getting stunned (like street fighter when you do a certain combination
>> the enemy can't move and has birds flying above their head) is another
>> example.
>>
>> This style of combat would add a lot of depth and strategy and make combat
>> feel more "alive" and dangerous and fun.  Also it adds a lot of potential
>> skills and techniques to our future list
>>
>> Injuries - with our injury and death system, swapping to keep your team
>> healthy is important.  This is kind of a big thing but I am sort of leaning
>> towards thinking maybe MAYBE the hero can't die.  everyone else can, but if
>> the hero is "knocked out" in battle, he's back after the fight. he can then
>> go forward to try to find the next respawn node or maybe theres a "Recall"
>> option where you can revert to the start of the dungeon with all your party
>> members intact.  i think this will eliminate a lot of frustration as well as
>> prevent people from keeping the hero on the sidelines worried he will die.
>>
>> just as a quick guess... i am thinking you get 7 active party members (3
>> active, 4 tagteamable) and then an additional 7 back at your "home base"
>> that you can swap out ff style whenever you're there for a total of 14 in
>> your party.  We will (ideally) have 40-50 recruitable characters so this
>> forces you to make some decisions on who you want to pick but also gives you
>> a large stable of characters so you don't feel like "shit, i have to give up
>> one of my favs".
>>
>>
>> Just some thoughts... let me know what you think!
>>
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>>  ------------------------------
>>
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