[project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, partylist, matchups and tagteaming

  • From: Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:01:00 -0700

I have not but I really want to. I have heard so many great things about
that game. Sadly, lately, I don't have much time to play games

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Matthew Morgan <MMorgan@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>  I like it.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
> project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *figarus@xxxxxxxxx
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2009 11:35 AM
>
> *To:* project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, partylist,
> matchups and tagteaming
>
>
>
> Yes that is correct... I imagine a lot of heroic efforts to get to the next
> checkpoint with your beat up crew... It'll be tense and thrilling
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From*: Alan Wolfe
> *Date*: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:29:34 -0700
> *To*: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> *Subject*: [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, partylist,
> matchups and tagteaming
>
> oh good point about #1 so maybe when you get your guys that are F'ed up and
> have only 20% of their max health so you can keep going but you are kinda
> wrecked.
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> for #1, I see Eric's idea of lowered max life being implemented. The
> lowered max life would be all they get until they receive proper healing.
>
> #2 sounds good
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> if that does make sense maybe we should tweak it so that...
>
>
>
> #1 - when a person in your party dies they disapear.  Whenever you come to
> a spirit node, it will contain all your fallen team members, you can "pick
> them up" but maybe they are still injured.
>
>
>
> #2 - when everyone dies, it loads your last save game - and whenever you
> are near a spirit node, it auto saves
>
> hows that?
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:19 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> oh i see...
>
>
>
> Eric will correct me if i'm wrong but as i see it...
>
>
>
> #1 - when a person in your party dies, they teleport back to the last
> spirit node.  You have to go back to pick them up if you want them again
>
>
>
> #2 - when everyone dies, it loads your last save game - and whenever you
> are near a spirit node, it auto saves
>
>
>
> so spirit nodes are kind of like checkpoints
>
>
>
> does that make sense? (im not sure if it does haha)
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> I thought we were looking for a different death system to avoid monotony
> and repetition. Since we are settling on the classic start over system, how
> will we avoid monotony and repetition?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> what do you mean kent?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Will prevention for repetition (such as repeating levels) be in dungeon /
> character / enemy design with a lot of fine balance as opposed to altering
> the concepts of how losing works?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> I thought the experience giving you tickets thing was seperate from the
> dying thing, but the rest sounds right as far as i understand it yeah
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:40 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Alan: I agree that the death scenario should not be for every time but for
> a few times that make sense for an extra bonus.
>
> What did we settle on for saving and dieing? Game autosaves when you hit a
> savepoint and when you die you return to your save point with everything
> reset. Any experience earned turns into some kind of bonus point that can be
> spent on games?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Matthew Morgan <MMorgan@xxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> Gotcha!
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
> project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Alan Wolfe
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:34 AM
>
>
> *To:* project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, partylist,
> matchups and tagteaming
>
>
>
> From the tech side, no reason why we can't do both (:
>
>
>
> Not sure what the plan is though
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Matthew Morgan <MMorgan@xxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> I have a q, are the minigames in all the towns, or is it wandering vendors
> (like the guys in fallout who sell stuff?).
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
> project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Alan Wolfe
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:25 AM
>
>
> *To:* project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, partylist,
> matchups and tagteaming
>
>
>
> ok we can just do a straight up load last save game on death, and have
> spirit nodes do autosaves.
>
>
>
> easier to program so im all for it! (:
>
>
>
> Yeah your ticket idea sounds good to me
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:20 AM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Alan, I think maybe the character doesn't keep exp... Ppl could exploit
> that by killing some high exp boss, die and repeat... I was thinking that
> thing where it keeps track of your total player earned exp and can trade it
> to get minigame tickets - did you not like that idea?
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From*: Matthew Morgan
> *Date*: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:02:02 -0700
> *To*: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
> *Subject*: [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party
> list, matchups and tagteaming
>
> That makes perfect sense, the only thing you get to keep is exp, so that
> would just overwrite after every battle, and everything else would get saved
> only if in a node?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
> project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]*On Behalf Of *Alan Wolfe
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:01 AM
> *To:* project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party
> list, matchups and tagteaming
>
>
>
> ok so when you die it does a load of the save it made when you were at the
> last node (or your last save game if you havent hit a node yet?) and resets
> everything to that point, but keeps any experience you've gained.
>
>
>
> sound right?
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 9:08 AM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> I dunno about gold
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From*: Alan Wolfe
> *Date*: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:06:50 -0700
>
>
> *To*: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> *Subject*: [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party
> list, matchups and tagteaming
>
> Ok so lose all items but keep exp and gold?
>
> i think thats doable.
>
> I think i'll just have it do the game save / load idea, but make it
> over-write the exp and gold after load with your at death exp and gold.
>
> any other values we want to persist past death we can do in a similar
> manner too (:
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> I'm with Eric, you don't want to let them keep items when they die. I think
> keeping experience is good. If we design our dungeons properly there should
> be no reason for a boring walk back to town anyway. All levels should be
> engaging at all times, especially when they are almost finished. That's when
> you should pull out the big surprises.
>
> I was thinking you could do it DnD style where your not really dead untill
> you achieve negative 10 life. So when you hit 0 your player or party member
> is knocked out and unusable. If you don't swap them out of combat they can
> still be targeted. If a knocked out player (a player with 0 life) is damaged
> further they can die, perhaps if your maxlife (as eric described above)
> drops below 0. A complete loss will only occur when everyone is dead and the
> player should not be able to be killed but only knocked out to 0 life. If
> there are no surviving party members to first aid him then the team loses
> and returns to a node.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> that makes sense about the knockout before dying.
>
> About not keeping items that makes sense.
>
> Should they keep exp even then?
>
> If not, we could just do an automatic game save at the spirit node and then
> load that when they died.
>
> Can you think of a situation you'll ever want to do that is an exception to
> the rule?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:49 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> turnbased fantasy rpg version of americas army style gameplay  :-P
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> That sounds decent (:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:45 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> well i think health would probably work like a hybrid of halo and marvel vs
> capcom where you have two health bars, current life and max life, your
> current life can go up via auto healing or first aid, but your max life
> cannot be restored unless you're in a town.
>
> example:
>
> main character has:
> max hp 100
> current hp 100
>
> he gets punched, losing life
> max hp 90
> current hp 70
>
> now he uses first aid, bringing him back up to 90 (100 is truemax, but he
> cannot attain that)
> max hp 90
> current hp 90
>
> this will also influence the strategy of party set up, tagteaming, etc.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Hey just thought of something else too...
>
> Eric if you hate the war of attrition we could go the route of the modern
> games (or at least try it) like halo where you have hp but it recovers over
> time (like when you are in back row or maybe not in combat... or potentially
> all the time?)
>
> Not sure if its a good idea, but its an idea :P
>
> lol
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> I like the FF view better myself.
>
> I'm am curious for the answer to Alan's questions as well.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:32 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> 100% definitely.  either ff style or maybe where its 3rd person over teh
> shoulder style.  i think you should be able to see them and with our
> gameplay style i think it'll be needed to show whats going on - visually and
> mechanically it'll be better.  i was actually gonna bring this up when we
> got into more detailed combat stuff :) glad we're on the same page there
> too.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> BTW what do you think about us changing our battle view from the dragon
> quest 5 view to the final fantasy view?
>
> I kinda miss being able to see the characters, and see the weapons /
> attacks and skills the players use.
>
> I think it makes the combat more epic and fun. Like think of fighting
> vargas or ultros where you see his tentacles slap your players, can you
> remember a fight like that at all in DQ5? i cant...most of the fights are
> unmemoriable, except for the ones where like 10 slimes form into the slime
> king hehe
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> I think switching out your characters could work, that kinda sounds cool
> and i can picture it in my head.
>
> When you would switch, would you be able to switch any turn of combat, only
> the first, or what?  Also is there a penalty to switching or is it for
> free?  I'm just curious cause if one guy was dying you could swap him out
> with another and have a fresh guy, is that ok?
>
> If so we could do soemthing like marvel vs capcom i think it was, where the
> team mates that are in the back row and not fighting slowly heal their
> wounds (in this case they heal a small amount as round time progresses) what
> you think?  If that is too overpowered, it could be something like they can
> only heal maximum up to the life they had before they got struck in the
> current battle.
>
> Being held by one character and attacked by another makes sense.  Maybe its
> a skill, and what happens is when you use that skill, the character that
> used it has to keep using it each turn to hold onto the monster and that
> monster basically struggles each turn where it has some chance to escape but
> that uses up it's turn.  Just like real life if you oare outnumbered,
> grabbing hold of someone or wrestling around with them wouldnt be a good
> idea cause his buddies would kick your butt, but if there is like 1 monster
> left it could be a cool skill.  Like havin a guy like sabin be able to grab
> the last enemy and hold him while your other guys hit him would be a pretty
> useful skill (:
>
> About the player never dying, on one hand i could see that working but on
> the other, couldnt you just scrape through anyhwere by walking through a
> dungeon and getting knocked out at each fight?  How do you balance that out?
>
> Some cool ideas!
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 6:36 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> ok here is how i am thinking parties will work in combat...
>
> there will be 3 active party members in any fight and 4 on the sidelines
> that can be "tagged in" (swapped) as a combat option for any of the active
> players INCLUDING the hero. this will allow you to sub out injured
> characters for fresh healthy ones, or if you want two people that can do a
> special attack, you can have them sub in to pull of a coup de grace, or
> maybe there is a MATCHUP you want to exploit.
>
> Matchups? Huh?
>
> Matchups are basically already existing in games but without anything to
> quantify them.  basically, if you're in battle against a big slow ogre or
> something, you can adjust your party to better match up w/ the enemy
> (enemies) you're fighting.  Maybe you want a big dude that can go
> mano-y-mano with the ogre, or a small quick dude who can exploit the ogre's
> plodding attack and slow defense.  Maybe you're up against a flying creature
> and arrows will be the best way to bring them down when standard attacks
> seem ineffectual.   Picking the best match up for what you're going against
> can mean the difference of life and death.
>
> Injuries/status - we don't just want fights to be wars of attrition where
> you attack attack attack and try to slowly drain your foes life (and vice
> versa) - in real life, this would be the equivelent of standing in front of
> someone and punching them back and forth until someone died.  Silly!  i
> think most (if not all) of us are experienced martial artists and we know
> fights don't work like that, there are holds, throws, etc that can put your
> opponent in compromising situations that give you the advantage.  Add
> weapons to this and we have a fun system that is more dynamic than the
> typical rpg combat system.  Examples of this would be sweeps/tackles/throws
> that leave the enemy prone and thus unable to defend themselves as well, or
> entangled via nets, maybe even HELD by one character while the others beat
> it up (could we do this)?  or maybe getting maimed or hamstrung knocks you
> over, getting stunned (like street fighter when you do a certain combination
> the enemy can't move and has birds flying above their head) is another
> example.
>
> This style of combat would add a lot of depth and strategy and make combat
> feel more "alive" and dangerous and fun.  Also it adds a lot of potential
> skills and techniques to our future list
>
> Injuries - with our injury and death system, swapping to keep your team
> healthy is important.  This is kind of a big thing but I am sort of leaning
> towards thinking maybe MAYBE the hero can't die.  everyone else can, but if
> the hero is "knocked out" in battle, he's back after the fight. he can then
> go forward to try to find the next respawn node or maybe theres a "Recall"
> option where you can revert to the start of the dungeon with all your party
> members intact.  i think this will eliminate a lot of frustration as well as
> prevent people from keeping the hero on the sidelines worried he will die.
>
> just as a quick guess... i am thinking you get 7 active party members (3
> active, 4 tagteamable) and then an additional 7 back at your "home base"
> that you can swap out ff style whenever you're there for a total of 14 in
> your party.  We will (ideally) have 40-50 recruitable characters so this
> forces you to make some decisions on who you want to pick but also gives you
> a large stable of characters so you don't feel like "shit, i have to give up
> one of my favs".
>
>
> Just some thoughts... let me know what you think!
>
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