[project1dev] Re: an idea, what do you guys think?

From: katie cook <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx>
To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 09:25:57 -0800 (PST)
Hey guys,

I think all 3 options should be looked at and considered. They could all 
contribute a portion and facilitate efficiency.

I think option #3 is the most crucial. We really should consider that. I am 
super excited to be contributing to the game. But it has been feeling like I've 
been the person in the back row jumping up and down saying Pick ME Pick ME. I'm 
available for doing props, etc. but I usually have to post a lot before I get 
someone to acknowledge and give me something to do. I would love expectations 
and goals to shoot for as far as getting models done. I admit the summer was 
busier than expected and I wasn't getting things done very quickly. But I am 
wide open right now and ready for whatever you guys want to throw at me.I would 
love if there were multiple areas being developed at the same time. That way I 
could snatch up something to do, and when that was done I could jump on the 
next project right away.

It would be helpful if there was like a map or list of all the areas, and what 
needed to be done on each, then when someone is working on it, they could put 
there name by it or cross it off when its done. I know we've had variances of 
this before, but nothing that has really stuck well.

I think as far as the art part and vision asthetically, Eric should really put 
some things in stone, whether it is writing it down or drawing it out. But 
something that actually lays it out for all of us to see instead of us just 
guessing. We can't read your mind and we don't know what direction your going 
to want to go at any given time. But we are all trying to go with this vision 
that you (eric) have, and half the time I have no frickin clue as to what is 
going on or what is next.

As far as what I got going on, I got some input from Eric about a carnival sign 
with some building materials he wanted.But it wasn't fleshed out yet and there 
wasn't a name or anything to go
with, so I have been kinda lingering cause it hasn't seemed like there
has been momentum towards anything lately. And I hear its been approved that I 
can work on the biobeastie thing, but where the heck are the concepts. Has 
anyone finished that? Is it already finished? What needs to be done? If it is 
ready to be modeled, post the final concept and Mark it FINAL CONCEPT or 
something to indicate as such, and I will get on it! And if you still want help 
with character designs, let me know. Just a description or something to go from 
and we can shoot back and forth until we reach a point that your happy with.

Anyway, my 2 cents at least. Not trying to be a BIACHE! I love you guys, I just 
want to get cranking on this thing. I hope you get where I'm coming from. I 
live for this stuff. I frickin love 3D.

Thanks Guys!

Katie


--- On Sat, 11/14/09, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [project1dev] Re: an idea, what do you guys think?
To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 4:37 PM

i hear ya gabriel, it's hard to see the bigger picture because there arent any 
documents about it etc :P

Eric has a lot of it planned out (the higher level concepts, with plenty of 
wiggle room for creativity on the details etc) but yeah, it's not written out 
where we can see so it's hard to know the overall big picture stuff.



Hey Eric, what do you think about writing something up or making a diagram 
about the overall big pic things for peeps to get a feel for the size of the 
game, a general storyline and stuff like that?

Here's some stuff as I know it from things you've said before, but i know we've 
gotten some new people since you were talking about it last:



#1 - the first half of the game is broken up into chapters of a story while the 
second half of the game is more open world free roam play with exploration 
(seriously that is going to be my fav part of making the game i think heheh)



#2 - the story idea is something like you are a disembodied spirit floating in 
the void (kind of like an afterlife) and that when you approach the old man, he 
gives you a body and sends you into the world of the living to do his bidding.



#3 - between chapters you can go back to the void area, and as you progress 
through the game it unlocks more of the void area, which turns out to be a 
carnival type area with minigames and fun stuff like that


#4 - the old man is somehow fighting the gods and in the end you have to make a 
decision about which side you are on in "the final battle"


#5 - the 1st (or 0th) chapter is what we are working on now where you float 
down as a spirit, talk to the old man who crafts a body for you like you want 
it, then you talk to the fortune teller which gives you your stats based on 
answers to questions (or you can hack the fortune teller and choose stats), 
then you go into the temple which is like an obstacle course to get you 
familiar with game controls, then you fight a boss at the end to learn about 
combat



#6 - the 2nd chapter happens in a forest and is the first time you go back to 
the world of the living but i dont know much more than that

is that about right?

But yeah, the game doesn't have a lot of momentum right now and a lot of people 
are waiting on the void to be finished so we can move on and they can start 
working again (ie map builders and designers), but i think thats because we 
have our milestones right now set up where all art, all building, scripting, 
etc is finished like 90-95%.



Since it takes longer to make art than it does to build an area with temp art 
and script it, and make it functional, I'm just thinking we should let the art 
being finished be decoupled from building more areas.



I think this will help build us some momentum because instead of asking an 
artist "hey i need X", an artist will actually be able to see "hey when i walk 
into this forest it looks really crappy... if i make better looking trees, the 
game will look 50 times better".  Im hoping this before and after view, of 
actually being able to see how they affect a game will help inspire artists to 
contribute (:



And i guess thirdly, we just have a general lack of momentum or organization or 
something.

Like Eric was saying, we made a small push to make sure people had tasks they 
could do, but nothing really came of it. (ie just like the thing with us 
needing a base skeleton with some basic walking, jumping etc animations).



so it's just difficult trying to figure out how can we make sure the game gets 
steady progress forward?  Right now i think our progress has been something 
like in the last 3 months we've gotten 1 peice of art? (thank you Katie!!)  We 
have like 8 artists or something so its just kind of a bummer we are moving at 
such a slow pace ):



Just going at that rate, we'll NEVER finish, so i think our primary problem is 
figuring out how we can do better than that.

the 3 options i was saying is...

#1 - we find free / cheap art on the net to use for stuff we don't care about.  
The cooler more interesting things can be focused on then, maybe that will help?


#2 - the art that we DO make, we should focus on making it as re-useable as 
possible so we have less overall art to make.  I think this is a good idea, but 
not everything is re-useable of course
#3 - we don't wait for art to be done to move on with building the next areas.  
This would let us flesh out the world with temporary art, and maybe seeing more 
of the world, but ugly with temp art, would inspire more people to want to 
contribute to make things look ok (:


i really think we should do #3 for sure, that #2 is a good idea, and in fact i 
think #1 might have it's own place too (:

but i dunno, im just trying to figure out how we can make progress enough of 
this game over time that we can finish it someday (like i'd think 1-2 years is 
reasonable, anything more than that is kinda junky... but if people disagree, 
we can go with whatever the general concensus is).


Katies idea of having things more organized on paper / documented when we start 
an area (and overall) is a really good idea, but we need someone to do that and 
take ownership over it you know?

I figure we can try the #3 option and see if it really does inspire anyone or 
not, but perhaps some other ideas will come up too.


Ideas welcome if you have any! (:


On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 3:06 PM, eric <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


I mean, I'm on my phone but I would say really, people know what they need to 
be working on and there are fairly extensive design documents for pretty much 
every system that needs developed - this current milestone has had its tasks 
laid out multiple times and people available to answer any questions anyone 
has... Really you can lead a horse to water but you can't make em drink... If 
you guys are thirsty, slurp away.  Frankly I'm tired and aggravated of people 
complaining about a lack of direction, every member of art team has an 
assignment!  Some tasks have been assigned since may with little/no progress.



Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile



-----Original Message-----

From: gabriel taylor <aidyn66@xxxxxxxxx>

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:45:35

To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Subject: [project1dev] Re: an idea, what do you guys think?



I agree with Katie here.



 From what I've been able to glean so far, it seems that the overall

direction of the game does not exist in any written format right now.

Without a clear perspective on the Whole project, by which I don't mean

the details of coding/shading/artistry, but rather the Scope, Setting,

Story, Length, it's difficult not only for people to work ahead on

things that may not be immediately needed, but difficult for everyone to

be certain they're on the same page with regard to setting, tone,

desired functionality, etc.  I think it would be useful for everyone if

we were able to flesh out the world and story behind the game, in order

to create a more consistent tone and direction between everyone's work.

Once we have the setting and the story, which will help create each

other as they're created, then we can divide the game into

section/zones/areas (however you want to distinguish parts of the game),

and work on sub-pieces from there.  Also, we'd be free to drum up basic

area design and layout before hammering out too much detail on something

that may later be changed.



It'd definitely be more useful to the art team, and it couldn't hurt for

the design and coding teams as well.



~gabriel



katie cook wrote:

> I just meant like what you said you are feeling too.

>

> The art people are waiting on the coders, the coders are waiting on

> the art people.

>

> It would be good to flush out the game first, then worry about intricacys.

>

> Lay the foundation. Start to build up from there...Frame work,

> insulation..etc.

>

> So figure out what we want in the game as far as areas, length,

> storyline, plot, etc. whatever. Then figure out what each area would

> entail, length, objective, etc. Then maybe lay out a map or floorplan,

> then figure out what would be necessary to make those areas functional

> based on the map and objective, then start laying out temp models so

> guys can start scripting stuff, and figuring out what the hiccups

> would be, then when that is at a good spot, then start thinking about

> the intricacys, details, nicer models, etc.

>

> That way art people can always be working on models, etc, while not

> interupting the scripters, etc. vice versa.

>

>

> --- On *Sat, 11/14/09, Alan Wolfe /<alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>/* wrote:

>

>

>     From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>

>     Subject: [project1dev] Re: an idea, what do you guys think?

>     To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

>     Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 11:29 AM

>

>     Thanks for the feedback Katie.

>

>     How so on trying to build the house without a foundation?

>

>     What kinds of things or steps do you see us missing as we are

>     moving forward?

>

>     Thanks (:

>

>     (and ps if anyone has feedback about anything please feel free to

>     speak up - or if youd rather email eric or i in private please

>     feel free!)

>

>     On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 11:23 AM, katie cook <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx

>     </mc/compose?to=ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

>

>         I think crappy temp models/temp art could be very helpful in

>         flushing things out.

>

>         And working in a linear fashion isn't necessarily all that

>         important.

>

>         I think option # 3 is a good idea, because even if we work

>         linear, we could always want to go back to an area and spice

>         it up or modify it if we see that something else might work

>         better functionally or what not.

>

>         Alan, I think you are heading in a good direction with that idea.

>

>         It has been feeling a bit like we are trying to build a house

>         without laying a foundation first.

>

>

>

>         Katie

>

>         --- On *Sat, 11/14/09, katie cook /<ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx

>         </mc/compose?to=ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx>>/* wrote:

>

>

>             From: katie cook <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx

>             </mc/compose?to=ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx>>

>             Subject: [project1dev] Re: an idea, what do you guys think?

>             To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

>             </mc/compose?to=project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

>

>             Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 11:13 AM

>

>             It seems like the focus has become more about just getting

>             the game made verses trying to build a game that we are

>             proud of and having fun making along the way...WTF????

>

>             Didn't know we were so concerned getting it cranked out by

>             a certain time...

>

>             Anyway, just my thoughts.

>

>             I had the impression that part of the goal of the game was

>             so people could use this as a stepping stone for portfolio

>             pieces, etc.

>

>             Personally, I'd be embarassed to show anyone the game, and

>             I'd just show them my individual work if we went this

>             route, but it looks like we have already begun going that

>             way anyway...

>

>             Katie

>

>             --- On *Wed, 11/11/09, Alan Wolfe /<alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx

>             </mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>/* wrote:

>

>

>                 From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx

>                 </mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>

>                 Subject: [project1dev] an idea, what do you guys think?

>                 To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

>                 </mc/compose?to=project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

>                 Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 10:09 PM

>

>                 Hey so i think one thing we've learned from working on

>                 the RPG so far is that it takes A LOT of art :P

>

>                 Even with a lot of artists theres just a ton of art to

>                 make and art takes quite a bit of time and effort.

>

>                 i was thinking of a couple ideas to help with this...

>

>                 #1 - finding free / cheap 3d models and textures on

>                 the net and using them for things that we don't care

>                 alot about (ie furniture perhaps or simple props and

>                 things), that way we spend our "art time" on the

>                 things we want custom which is the cool stuff like

>                 bosses and specific items and characters perhaps?

>

>                 #2 - we could try to make some efforts to make art

>                 re-useable.  This is hard for the void area since it's

>                 very unique, but for the mine we worked on last, we

>                 could have for instance made "generic cave walls" art

>                 in a way that it was re-useable.  When we have a

>                 library of re-useable art, building areas should go

>                 quicker cause we already have art assets made.  We

>                 have the ability in game to colorize art

>                 programatically so we can recolor and reuse models as

>                 well too.

>

>                 #3 - we could change our workflow.  Instead of trying

>                 to push towards milestones and have every area 100%

>                 done before we move on we could change it up.  We

>                 could just build things up functionally with whatever

>                 junky art we had (ie the temple as is would be fine

>                 lol).  As long as things are working functionally we

>                 can move on.  I think if we went a route like this it

>                 would be good to keep a list somewhere of what needed

>                 to be done artistically such as "the temple needs real

>                 art and a decoration pass".  The benefit to going this

>                 route would be that we could just keep building areas

>                 and moving the game forward.  It may not look pretty

>                 but it should be playable and it could be made pretty

>                 over time.

>

>                 but hrm, just throwin some ideas out there what do you

>                 guys think?  Maybe we just say "meh" to art quality

>                 and get the game built with a whole bunch of temp /

>                 programmer art and worry about making it pretty later

>                 on / at our leisure?

>

>                 It would be nice to move onto the next area and start

>                 getting some story together and real game play and

>                 stuff (:

>

>

>

>

>



.
References:
- [project1dev] Re: an idea, what do you guys think?
  - From: Alan Wolfe
[project1dev] Re: an idea, what do you guys think?

Other related posts:
