[project1dev] Re: The tail end of milestone 1
- From: Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 14:10:22 -0700
Alan, I think you know what would happen if I was ever left in control of
game difficulty. =P
I think my crazy ideas and what I think is fun is probably best reserved for
bonus content or a hard difficulty
Did anyone play the Final Fantasy 6 remake on gameboy?
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> hmm... you guys talking like this makes me think our hardcore mode might
> actually be pretty rough haha
> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 1:51 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Kent, ff3(6) is way better w/ no espers, the only downside is, your fav
>> characters may end up sorta nerfed (cyan for instance, and locke)
>>
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From*: Kent Petersen
>> *Date*: Thu, 21 May 2009 13:42:24 -0700
>>
>> *To*: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> *Subject*: [project1dev] Re: The tail end of milestone 1
>>
>> 7 had a lot of great moments but in the grand scheme of things I like
>> the way FF2 (4j) and FF3 (6j) did things better. I also think that FF3 (6j)
>> would have been the best if all characters did not come out the same in the
>> end. Eric and I talked about an esperless run in FF3 (6j). I have not tried
>> this but I bet it would be the perfect blend of game play for me.
>>
>> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> i liked 7 but i drew the line after that hehe
>>>
>>> maybe it was cause i thought Aeris was kinda hot :P
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I feel the exact same way man. Square lost something for me in between
>>>> FF7 and 8. In all honesty, I don't think 7 was that amazing of a game. It
>>>> was just very new and very revolutionary and quite amazing for its time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> yeah i agree w/ you eric and kent
>>>>>
>>>>> when i saw the gave advertised the disney rpg and the people with
>>>>> keyswords really turned me off on it.
>>>>>
>>>>> That was a ways after the time when i had lost all faith in square as
>>>>> well so i wasnt likely (nor am i likely) to play a squaresoft RPG again
>>>>> hehe
>>>>> :P
>>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 1:07 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ya I'm not a huge disney guy but the game felt like going to
>>>>>> disneyland as a kid.
>>>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 12:47:46
>>>>>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: The tail end of milestone 1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Disney thing turned me off at first too, but once you got past
>>>>>> that you could see the gameplay really carried the entire experience,
>>>>>> start to finish. Then it just became an enhancer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> > I didn't like kingdom hearts. Never got into it. I tried to play
>>>>>> through the
>>>>>> > game quite a few times but I was never able to log enough time to
>>>>>> beat Alice
>>>>>> > and Wonderland. To me, there was nothing extra special about the
>>>>>> game. It
>>>>>> > was just another RPG with Disney characters
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Yeah, Kingdom hearts was a great game. Except for all the
>>>>>> quick-time
>>>>>> >> events. I would really like to make something like that. Especially
>>>>>> one that
>>>>>> >> is all encompassing of the RPG types and genres with plenty of
>>>>>> homage to the
>>>>>> >> old school SNES games, I think that is a nice delivery method. If
>>>>>> we could
>>>>>> >> do something that it would be amazing.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 10:19 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> i really loved the atmosphere of kingdom hearts, i think thats
>>>>>> what set
>>>>>> >>> it apart from other games for me... definitely want to capture
>>>>>> that magic in
>>>>>> >>> our game :)
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Chris Riccobono <
>>>>>> crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> It was really innovative, each world was almost a game by itself
>>>>>> >>>> (introduced a new playing mechanic in each world or something..
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >>>> that would help you get through the world)
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 9:27 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> > Hey, how did kingdom hearts work?
>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>> >>>> > On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Chris Riccobono <
>>>>>> crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>>> >>>> >> The way things are sounding, having a world system like
>>>>>> Kingdom
>>>>>> >>>> >> Hearts
>>>>>> >>>> >> would allow for a lot of the cool ideas everyone is
>>>>>> suggesting. I
>>>>>> >>>> >> think the way they tackled the game was creating a very
>>>>>> immersive
>>>>>> >>>> >> overall story, and then figured out ways to tie in the
>>>>>> individual
>>>>>> >>>> >> worlds.
>>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>>> >>>> >> Basically to use Eric's analogy, you draw the background of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>>> >> canvas
>>>>>> >>>> >> first, and then fill it in with the foreground pieces.
>>>>>> Background
>>>>>> >>>> >> would be the linear overall story, and the foreground would be
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>>> >> individual worlds (such as where the cave would go)
>>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>>> >>>> >> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Matthew Freeland
>>>>>> >>>> >> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> > We can only have a monster dance party if someone has a
>>>>>> MAGICAL
>>>>>> >>>> >> > ZOMBRERO
>>>>>> >>>> >> > on
>>>>>> >>>> >> > their costume.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >
>>>>>> >>>> >> > That is all.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >
>>>>>> >>>> >> > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:19 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>> >> > wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >> theres a lot of neat ideas we had on that old forum, i keep
>>>>>> >>>> >> >> forgetting
>>>>>> >>>> >> >> to
>>>>>> >>>> >> >> check there but the wolf man idea reminded me
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>> oh awesome eric
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>> maybe you could train your sidekicks too (thinkin it might
>>>>>> be an
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>> application for that machine learnin stuff!)
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:15 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>> haha yeah, like i picture the area being filled with laid
>>>>>> back
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>> pretty
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>> cool undead dudes.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>> hey for ooze (werewolf stuff) idea info:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>> http://atma.demofox.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> hey eric, we should do a joke too (like maybe it's part
>>>>>> of this
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> party)
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> about like, what all the monsters do when no one is
>>>>>> lookin...
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> like skeletons jokin and smokin and they are like "oh
>>>>>> crap here
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> come
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> some adventurers" toss their cigs into the fire and
>>>>>> start
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> grunting
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> hehe
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>> okies (:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:07 PM, eric drewes
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>> i think the idea with the costume sounds funny where
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>> crash a
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>> bizarre monster party or soemthing, we can work that
>>>>>> in - why
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>> not?
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> yeah it kinda would (:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> hey eric since we are going more linear storyline
>>>>>> now, does
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> that
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> mean choices you make aren't going to affect the
>>>>>> storyline
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> so
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> much? (i'm
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> assuming that they won't)
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> And how much leeway do we have for optional things
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> becoming
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> a
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> wearwolf and stuff like that, besides just as part of
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> sandboxed
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> area -
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> like a quest where you can become a warewolf
>>>>>> temporarily and
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> are
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> limited
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> where you can go, then later on youre cured and let
>>>>>> out - er
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> yeah, like
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> beyond that would we let them just be a warewolf for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> rest of
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> the game?
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>> It would be pretty cool if you could somehow become
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>> were-creature
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>> or undead as well
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>> I hope to see dracula drop his ice cream some day =P
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> and explanation for everyone else...
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> previously before i got a job makin games, me and
>>>>>> kent
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> makin
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> a side scrolling game where you played as megaman.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> the "main boss" was dracula from one of the
>>>>>> castlevania
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> games
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> hehe
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> we wanted to have a cut scene where he was eating
>>>>>> his ice
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> cream
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> and it like, fell on the floor or something and he
>>>>>> got sad
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> yeah... hahah
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> lol about dracula eating ice cream
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> this might be a really gay idea (and i dont mean
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> olde
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> english way haha) but...
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> back when we were thinking more of an open world,
>>>>>> i was
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> it would be rad if there was like, a monster party
>>>>>> w/
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> vampires
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> warewolves and skeletons and stuff.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> if you went in there as something like that it'd
>>>>>> be a
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> chill
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> palce
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> to hang out and stuff
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> but if you went in there as a normal dude or a
>>>>>> paladin or
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> something they'd rip you up
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> if something at all fits like that in our game
>>>>>> (maybe you
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> wear a costume or maybe if you go in with someone
>>>>>> undead
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> your party they
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> are cool to you) we could have dracula eating ice
>>>>>> cream
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> maybe lol
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:44 PM, eric drewes
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> definitely lots or weird hidden mini things
>>>>>> everywhere!
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:38 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Speaking of that are we going to have weird
>>>>>> hidden mini
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> bonuses?
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan, you still owe me dracula eating ice cream!
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lol that's awesome (:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are you thinking of using billboarded sprites
>>>>>> for all
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> art
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or something?
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:35 PM, eric drewes
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secretly, wurmz and i are planning a mini
>>>>>> level where
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thrown into a land w/ pixel art and 8 bit
>>>>>> music, etc.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dont tell alan
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shhhh
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Nick Klotz
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree; 8-bit is awesome.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:39 PM, Chris
>>>>>> Sherman
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <cshermandesign@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think we should make an epic game that
>>>>>> roxors in
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> graphic and coding department but the sound
>>>>>> is all
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8bit
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> old school!!!! Sorry
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had a lot of sugar for lunch :p
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my BlackBerry
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>________________________________
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: figarus@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 18:33:34 +0000
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: The tail end of
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone 1
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not just games... When you paint a picture,
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> focus on the nose till its perfect then move
>>>>>> onto
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eyes. We'll build the
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> structure of the game first but it'll take 2
>>>>>> or 3
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coats
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of paint before its
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> done. Even while the milestone 1 is "done" -
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likely be drastically
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altered visually and mechanically (sound
>>>>>> etc) by
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time the game is ready
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for release.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Baby steps :)
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>________________________________
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Alan Wolfe
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 11:11:24 -0700
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: The tail end of
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone 1
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and yeah, hopefully sound will be coming
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone or next (depending on what we have
>>>>>> time
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for!)
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another thing about the milestones is we
>>>>>> want to
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the amount of tech work needed and the
>>>>>> amount of
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> art
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work needed so that one
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> side isn't waiting on the other too much.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like if the cave is prettied up 100% but
>>>>>> there's no
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sound,
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you artists shouldnt have to wait while i
>>>>>> code in
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sound
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You could move onto the next milestone but
>>>>>> keeping
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> focused on the same area and keeping us all
>>>>>> on the
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> page (at least for
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now in the beginning while we are still
>>>>>> hammering
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out) is worth more
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than being fully feature complete right
>>>>>> away.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a pretty common thing for games too
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like, games work towards alpha while making
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (maps, art, etc).
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alpha means the game is fully playable from
>>>>>> start
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finish.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Beta means that it's feature complete (note
>>>>>> that it
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isnt
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feature complete until AFTER it's fully
>>>>>> playable)
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then from beta to release, it's just bug
>>>>>> fixes and
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> final
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spit and pollish (:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah exactly
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we don't want to sit around in one area and
>>>>>> wait
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entire game to be fleshed out, or we'd be
>>>>>> waiting
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forever and be stuck on
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this cave for months and months and months
>>>>>> longer
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meanwhile have nothing
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else done.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The purpose of the milestones is to break
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> creating
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game into bitesized chunks that get us
>>>>>> closer and
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closer to a full
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> featureset and a full game.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We'll come back to it, but it's served it's
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purpose for
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now and is like 90% of the way there so as
>>>>>> soon as
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have more of a game
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world we can hook it in and finish it up (:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Kent
>>>>>> Petersen
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe adding sound is a large task. We
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revisit
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the cave later once we know where it will
>>>>>> fit
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into the
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world and we will be
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to add in all the new features we
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Matthew
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Freeland
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By the way I Think an important thing to
>>>>>> work on
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sound milestones before we move away from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mine.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:00 AM, Alan
>>>>>> Wolfe
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh and Eric wants to do #5, and i will
>>>>>> do #4 if
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else wants to (but feel free if you want
>>>>>> to!!).
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And i'll be doin #6 for sure.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not sure how the rest of it falls! (:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Alan
>>>>>> Wolfe
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Everyone,
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This first milestone working on the
>>>>>> cave has
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worked
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out a lot of issues with workflow and
>>>>>> gotten
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us a
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basic set of features
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (enemy pathing, AI and a basic level
>>>>>> editor)
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> preformance upgrades.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These were some of the main goals of
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone so mission accomplished!
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since we don't know where exactly this
>>>>>> cave is
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to fit in with the rest of the world,
>>>>>> Eric was
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it would be best
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (even for the sake of sanity because
>>>>>> we've
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working on this area for so
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long) to forgo to pollish phase of this
>>>>>> map
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leave it at about 90%
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finished until we do know the details
>>>>>> of where
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going in the world and
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can finish it up then, and I agree that
>>>>>> is a
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here's the things he identified as
>>>>>> wanting to
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finish
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up before we move on:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #1) Put the new boss art in
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #2) Animate the dog men
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #3) Replace the stationary miner art
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #4) Finish decorating the cave with the
>>>>>> props
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (and any that anyone is working on)
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #5) Do a lighting pass
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #6) I want to do an optimization pass
>>>>>> for the
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> models
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause i think a few models we can
>>>>>> reduce the
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of verts without losing
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any major visual quality (and i'll run
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simplified models by everyone
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before i check them in to make sure I
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ugly
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things up too much). This
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should boost overall performance which
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let us
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> place more objects while
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining higher frame rates.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anything else that anyone really wants
>>>>>> to get
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in or
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does that sound ok to everyone?
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are some known issues that we are
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leave for now (unless they are quick
>>>>>> fixes and
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone wants to tackle any!),
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we'll deal with when we come back
>>>>>> to the
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cave
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later on:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * the boss is too tall and clips
>>>>>> through the
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bridge
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (might be fixed with new art but maybe
>>>>>> not)
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * you can walk around and through the
>>>>>> rocks
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> caved
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * theres places in the map you can
>>>>>> still fall
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ground into infinity
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * there's a few places where z fighting
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Others: we haven't gone through a QA
>>>>>> pass or
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tested it to find the bugs we don't
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eric and I are finalizing the details
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2nd
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone to make sure it makes sense
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both a
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> creative and technical POV
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the details will be released by the
>>>>>> end of
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> week.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great job everyone, we are really
>>>>>> kicking ass
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is shaping up to be a great team! (:
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>
>>>>>> >>>> >> >
>>>>>> >>>> >> >
>>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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