It was really innovative, each world was almost a game by itself (introduced a new playing mechanic in each world or something.. and that would help you get through the world) On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 9:27 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Hey, how did kingdom hearts work? > > On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> The way things are sounding, having a world system like Kingdom Hearts >> would allow for a lot of the cool ideas everyone is suggesting. I >> think the way they tackled the game was creating a very immersive >> overall story, and then figured out ways to tie in the individual >> worlds. >> >> Basically to use Eric's analogy, you draw the background of the canvas >> first, and then fill it in with the foreground pieces. Background >> would be the linear overall story, and the foreground would be the >> individual worlds (such as where the cave would go) >> >> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Matthew Freeland >> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> > We can only have a monster dance party if someone has a MAGICAL ZOMBRERO >> > on >> > their costume. >> > >> > That is all. >> > >> > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:19 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> >> >> theres a lot of neat ideas we had on that old forum, i keep forgetting >> >> to >> >> check there but the wolf man idea reminded me >> >> >> >> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> oh awesome eric >> >>> >> >>> maybe you could train your sidekicks too (thinkin it might be an >> >>> application for that machine learnin stuff!) >> >>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:15 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> >> >>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> haha yeah, like i picture the area being filled with laid back pretty >> >>>> cool undead dudes. >> >>>> >> >>>> hey for ooze (werewolf stuff) idea info: >> >>>> http://atma.demofox.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12 >> >>>> >> >>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> hey eric, we should do a joke too (like maybe it's part of this >> >>>>> party) >> >>>>> about like, what all the monsters do when no one is lookin... >> >>>>> >> >>>>> like skeletons jokin and smokin and they are like "oh crap here come >> >>>>> some adventurers" toss their cigs into the fire and start grunting >> >>>>> hehe >> >>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> okies (: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:07 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> i think the idea with the costume sounds funny where you crash a >> >>>>>>> bizarre monster party or soemthing, we can work that in - why not? >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> yeah it kinda would (: >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> hey eric since we are going more linear storyline now, does that >> >>>>>>>> mean choices you make aren't going to affect the storyline so >> >>>>>>>> much? (i'm >> >>>>>>>> assuming that they won't) >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> And how much leeway do we have for optional things like becoming >> >>>>>>>> a >> >>>>>>>> wearwolf and stuff like that, besides just as part of a sandboxed >> >>>>>>>> area - >> >>>>>>>> like a quest where you can become a warewolf temporarily and are >> >>>>>>>> limited >> >>>>>>>> where you can go, then later on youre cured and let out - er >> >>>>>>>> yeah, like >> >>>>>>>> beyond that would we let them just be a warewolf for the rest of >> >>>>>>>> the game? >> >>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Kent Petersen >> >>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> It would be pretty cool if you could somehow become a >> >>>>>>>>> were-creature >> >>>>>>>>> or undead as well >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> I hope to see dracula drop his ice cream some day =P >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Alan Wolfe >> >>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> and explanation for everyone else... >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> previously before i got a job makin games, me and kent were >> >>>>>>>>>> makin >> >>>>>>>>>> a side scrolling game where you played as megaman. >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> the "main boss" was dracula from one of the castlevania games >> >>>>>>>>>> hehe >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> we wanted to have a cut scene where he was eating his ice cream >> >>>>>>>>>> and it like, fell on the floor or something and he got sad >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> yeah... hahah >> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Alan Wolfe >> >>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> lol about dracula eating ice cream >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> this might be a really gay idea (and i dont mean in the olde >> >>>>>>>>>>> english way haha) but... >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> back when we were thinking more of an open world, i was >> >>>>>>>>>>> thinking >> >>>>>>>>>>> it would be rad if there was like, a monster party w/ vampires >> >>>>>>>>>>> and >> >>>>>>>>>>> warewolves and skeletons and stuff. >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> if you went in there as something like that it'd be a chill >> >>>>>>>>>>> palce >> >>>>>>>>>>> to hang out and stuff >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> but if you went in there as a normal dude or a paladin or >> >>>>>>>>>>> something they'd rip you up >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> if something at all fits like that in our game (maybe you can >> >>>>>>>>>>> wear a costume or maybe if you go in with someone undead in >> >>>>>>>>>>> your party they >> >>>>>>>>>>> are cool to you) we could have dracula eating ice cream there >> >>>>>>>>>>> maybe lol >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:44 PM, eric drewes >> >>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> definitely lots or weird hidden mini things everywhere! >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:38 PM, Kent Petersen >> >>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Speaking of that are we going to have weird hidden mini >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> bonuses? >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan, you still owe me dracula eating ice cream! >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Alan Wolfe >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lol that's awesome (: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are you thinking of using billboarded sprites for all the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> art >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or something? >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:35 PM, eric drewes >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secretly, wurmz and i are planning a mini level where you >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thrown into a land w/ pixel art and 8 bit music, etc. but >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dont tell alan >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shhhh >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Nick Klotz >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree; 8-bit is awesome. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:39 PM, Chris Sherman >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <cshermandesign@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think we should make an epic game that roxors in the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> graphic and coding department but the sound is all 8bit >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> old school!!!! Sorry >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had a lot of sugar for lunch :p >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my BlackBerry >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: figarus@xxxxxxxxx >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 18:33:34 +0000 >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: The tail end of milestone 1 >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not just games... When you paint a picture, you don't >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> focus on the nose till its perfect then move onto the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eyes. We'll build the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> structure of the game first but it'll take 2 or 3 coats >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of paint before its >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> done. Even while the milestone 1 is "done" - it will >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likely be drastically >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altered visually and mechanically (sound etc) by the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time the game is ready >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for release. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Baby steps :) >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Alan Wolfe >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 11:11:24 -0700 >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: The tail end of milestone 1 >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and yeah, hopefully sound will be coming in either >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone or next (depending on what we have time for!) >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another thing about the milestones is we want to balance >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the amount of tech work needed and the amount of art >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work needed so that one >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> side isn't waiting on the other too much. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like if the cave is prettied up 100% but there's no >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sound, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you artists shouldnt have to wait while i code in sound >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You could move onto the next milestone but keeping >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> focused on the same area and keeping us all on the same >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> page (at least for >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now in the beginning while we are still hammering things >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out) is worth more >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than being fully feature complete right away. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a pretty common thing for games too >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like, games work towards alpha while making their >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (maps, art, etc). >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alpha means the game is fully playable from start to >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finish. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Beta means that it's feature complete (note that it isnt >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feature complete until AFTER it's fully playable) >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then from beta to release, it's just bug fixes and final >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spit and pollish (: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Alan Wolfe >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah exactly >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we don't want to sit around in one area and wait on the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entire game to be fleshed out, or we'd be waiting >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forever and be stuck on >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this cave for months and months and months longer and >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meanwhile have nothing >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else done. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The purpose of the milestones is to break up creating >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game into bitesized chunks that get us closer and >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closer to a full >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> featureset and a full game. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We'll come back to it, but it's served it's purpose for >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now and is like 90% of the way there so as soon as we >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have more of a game >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world we can hook it in and finish it up (: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Kent Petersen >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe adding sound is a large task. We will >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revisit >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the cave later once we know where it will fit into the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world and we will be >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to add in all the new features we have created >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Matthew Freeland >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By the way I Think an important thing to work on some >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sound milestones before we move away from the mine. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just a thought. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:00 AM, Alan Wolfe >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh and Eric wants to do #5, and i will do #4 if no >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else wants to (but feel free if you want to!!). >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And i'll be doin #6 for sure. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not sure how the rest of it falls! (: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Alan Wolfe >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Everyone, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This first milestone working on the cave has worked >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out a lot of issues with workflow and gotten us a >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basic set of features >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (enemy pathing, AI and a basic level editor) and >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> preformance upgrades. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These were some of the main goals of this first >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone so mission accomplished! >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since we don't know where exactly this cave is >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to fit in with the rest of the world, Eric was >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it would be best >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (even for the sake of sanity because we've been >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working on this area for so >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long) to forgo to pollish phase of this map and >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leave it at about 90% >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finished until we do know the details of where it's >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going in the world and >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can finish it up then, and I agree that is a good >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here's the things he identified as wanting to >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finish >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up before we move on: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #1) Put the new boss art in >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #2) Animate the dog men >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #3) Replace the stationary miner art >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #4) Finish decorating the cave with the props we >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (and any that anyone is working on) >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #5) Do a lighting pass >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #6) I want to do an optimization pass for the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> models >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause i think a few models we can reduce the number >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of verts without losing >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any major visual quality (and i'll run the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simplified models by everyone >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before i check them in to make sure I don't ugly >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things up too much). This >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should boost overall performance which will let us >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> place more objects while >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining higher frame rates. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anything else that anyone really wants to get in or >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does that sound ok to everyone? >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are some known issues that we are just going >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leave for now (unless they are quick fixes and >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone wants to tackle any!), >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we'll deal with when we come back to the cave >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later on: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * the boss is too tall and clips through the bridge >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (might be fixed with new art but maybe not) >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * you can walk around and through the rocks that >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> caved >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * theres places in the map you can still fall >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ground into infinity >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * there's a few places where z fighting still >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Others: we haven't gone through a QA pass or play >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tested it to find the bugs we don't know about. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eric and I are finalizing the details of the 2nd >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone to make sure it makes sense from both a >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> creative and technical POV >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the details will be released by the end of the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> week. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great job everyone, we are really kicking ass and >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is shaping up to be a great team! (: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >