[project1dev] Re: The tail end of milestone 1

  • From: Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 08:20:41 -0700

Also, beating that Dracula in the Megaman game was fun as hell :)

I miss that game so much.  We have not reached a level where the game
is that fun yet, but this kind of game is going to take longer to
make, no doubt.

On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> The way things are sounding, having a world system like Kingdom Hearts
> would allow for a lot of the cool ideas everyone is suggesting.  I
> think the way they tackled the game was creating a very immersive
> overall story, and then figured out ways to tie in the individual
> worlds.
>
> Basically to use Eric's analogy, you draw the background of the canvas
> first, and then fill it in with the foreground pieces.  Background
> would be the linear overall story, and the foreground would be the
> individual worlds (such as where the cave would go)
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Matthew Freeland
> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> We can only have a monster dance party if someone has a MAGICAL ZOMBRERO on
>> their costume.
>>
>> That is all.
>>
>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:19 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> theres a lot of neat ideas we had on that old forum, i keep forgetting to
>>> check there but the wolf man idea reminded me
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> oh awesome eric
>>>>
>>>> maybe you could train your sidekicks too (thinkin it might be an
>>>> application for that machine learnin stuff!)
>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:15 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> haha yeah, like i picture the area being filled with laid back pretty
>>>>> cool undead dudes.
>>>>>
>>>>> hey for ooze (werewolf stuff) idea info:
>>>>> http://atma.demofox.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hey eric, we should do a joke too (like maybe it's part of this party)
>>>>>> about like, what all the monsters do when no one is lookin...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> like skeletons jokin and smokin and they are like "oh crap here come
>>>>>> some adventurers" toss their cigs into the fire and start grunting hehe
>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> okies (:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:07 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i think the idea with the costume sounds funny where you crash a
>>>>>>>> bizarre monster party or soemthing, we can work that in - why not?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> yeah it kinda would (:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> hey eric since we are going more linear storyline now, does that
>>>>>>>>> mean choices you make aren't going to affect the storyline so much?  
>>>>>>>>> (i'm
>>>>>>>>> assuming that they won't)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And how much leeway do we have for optional things like becoming a
>>>>>>>>> wearwolf and stuff like that, besides just as part of a sandboxed 
>>>>>>>>> area -
>>>>>>>>> like a quest where you can become a warewolf temporarily and are 
>>>>>>>>> limited
>>>>>>>>> where you can go, then later on youre cured and let out - er yeah, 
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> beyond that would we let them just be a warewolf for the rest of the 
>>>>>>>>> game?
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It would be pretty cool if you could somehow become a were-creature
>>>>>>>>>> or undead as well
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I hope to see dracula drop his ice cream some day =P
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and explanation for everyone else...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> previously before i got a job makin games, me and kent were makin
>>>>>>>>>>> a side scrolling game where you played as megaman.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the "main boss" was dracula from one of the castlevania games hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> we wanted to have a cut scene where he was eating his ice cream
>>>>>>>>>>> and it like, fell on the floor or something and he got sad
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> yeah... hahah
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> lol about dracula eating ice cream
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> this might be a really gay idea (and i dont mean in the olde
>>>>>>>>>>>> english way haha) but...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> back when we were thinking more of an open world, i was thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>> it would be rad if there was like, a monster party w/ vampires and
>>>>>>>>>>>> warewolves and skeletons and stuff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> if you went in there as something like that it'd be a chill palce
>>>>>>>>>>>> to hang out and stuff
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> but if you went in there as a normal dude or a paladin or
>>>>>>>>>>>> something they'd rip you up
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> if something at all fits like that in our game (maybe you can
>>>>>>>>>>>> wear a costume or maybe if you go in with someone undead in your 
>>>>>>>>>>>> party they
>>>>>>>>>>>> are cool to you) we could have dracula eating ice cream there 
>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe lol
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:44 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely lots or weird hidden mini things everywhere!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:38 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Speaking of that are we going to have weird hidden mini
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bonuses?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan, you still owe me dracula eating ice cream!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lol that's awesome (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are you thinking of using billboarded sprites for all the art
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or something?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:35 PM, eric drewes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secretly, wurmz and i are planning a mini level where you get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thrown into a land w/ pixel art and 8 bit music, etc. but dont 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell alan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shhhh
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Nick Klotz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree; 8-bit is awesome.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:39 PM, Chris Sherman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <cshermandesign@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think we should make an epic game that roxors in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> graphic and coding department but the sound is all 8bit old 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school!!!! Sorry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had a lot of sugar for lunch :p
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my BlackBerry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: figarus@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 18:33:34 +0000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: The tail end of milestone 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not just games... When you paint a picture, you don't just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> focus on the nose till its perfect then move onto the eyes. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We'll build the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> structure of the game first but it'll take 2 or 3 coats of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paint before its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> done. Even while the milestone 1 is "done" - it will likely 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be drastically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altered visually and mechanically (sound etc) by the time 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game is ready
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for release.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Baby steps :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 11:11:24 -0700
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: The tail end of milestone 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and yeah, hopefully sound will be coming in either this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone or next (depending on what we have time for!)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another thing about the milestones is we want to balance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the amount of tech work needed and the amount of art work 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needed so that one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> side isn't waiting on the other too much.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like if the cave is prettied up 100% but there's no sound,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you artists shouldnt have to wait while i code in sound 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You could move onto the next milestone but keeping everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> focused on the same area and keeping us all on the same page 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (at least for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now in the beginning while we are still hammering things 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out) is worth more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than being fully feature complete right away.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a pretty common thing for games too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like, games work towards alpha while making their content
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (maps, art, etc).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alpha means the game is fully playable from start to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finish.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Beta means that it's feature complete (note that it isnt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feature complete until AFTER it's fully playable)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then from beta to release, it's just bug fixes and final
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spit and pollish (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah exactly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we don't want to sit around in one area and wait on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entire game to be fleshed out, or we'd be waiting forever 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and be stuck on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this cave for months and months and months longer and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meanwhile have nothing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else done.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The purpose of the milestones is to break up creating the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game into bitesized chunks that get us closer and closer to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a full
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> featureset and a full game.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We'll come back to it, but it's served it's purpose for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now and is like 90% of the way there so as soon as we have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more of a game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world we can hook it in and finish it up (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe adding sound is a large task. We will revisit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the cave later once we know where it will fit into the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world and we will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to add in all the new features we have created then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Matthew Freeland
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By the way I Think an important thing to work on some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sound milestones before we move away from the mine. Just 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:00 AM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh and Eric wants to do #5, and i will do #4 if no one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else wants to (but feel free if you want to!!).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And i'll be doin #6 for sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not sure how the rest of it falls! (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This first milestone working on the cave has worked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out a lot of issues with workflow and gotten us a basic 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> set of features
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (enemy pathing, AI and a basic level editor) and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> preformance upgrades.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These were some of the main goals of this first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone so mission accomplished!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since we don't know where exactly this cave is going
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to fit in with the rest of the world, Eric was thinking 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would be best
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (even for the sake of sanity because we've been working 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on this area for so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long) to forgo to pollish phase of this map and leave 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it at about 90%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finished until we do know the details of where it's 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going in the world and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can finish it up then, and I agree that is a good idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here's the things he identified as wanting to finish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up before we move on:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #1) Put the new boss art in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #2) Animate the dog men
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #3) Replace the stationary miner art
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #4) Finish decorating the cave with the props we have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (and any that anyone is working on)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #5) Do a lighting pass
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #6) I want to do an optimization pass for the models
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause i think a few models we can reduce the number of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> verts without losing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any major visual quality (and i'll run the simplified 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> models by everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before i check them in to make sure I don't ugly things 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up too much).  This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should boost overall performance which will let us 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> place more objects while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining higher frame rates.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anything else that anyone really wants to get in or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does that sound ok to everyone?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are some known issues that we are just going to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leave for now (unless they are quick fixes and anyone 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wants to tackle any!),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we'll deal with when we come back to the cave 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later on:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * the boss is too tall and clips through the bridge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (might be fixed with new art but maybe not)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * you can walk around and through the rocks that caved
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * theres places in the map you can still fall through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ground into infinity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * there's a few places where z fighting still happens
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Others: we haven't gone through a QA pass or play
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tested it to find the bugs we don't know about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eric and I are finalizing the details of the 2nd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone to make sure it makes sense from both a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> creative and technical POV
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the details will be released by the end of the week.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great job everyone, we are really kicking ass and this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is shaping up to be a great team! (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

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