[project1dev] Re: The tail end of milestone 1

  • From: Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 08:19:17 -0700

The way things are sounding, having a world system like Kingdom Hearts
would allow for a lot of the cool ideas everyone is suggesting.  I
think the way they tackled the game was creating a very immersive
overall story, and then figured out ways to tie in the individual

Basically to use Eric's analogy, you draw the background of the canvas
first, and then fill it in with the foreground pieces.  Background
would be the linear overall story, and the foreground would be the
individual worlds (such as where the cave would go)

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Matthew Freeland
<mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> We can only have a monster dance party if someone has a MAGICAL ZOMBRERO on
> their costume.
> That is all.
> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:19 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> theres a lot of neat ideas we had on that old forum, i keep forgetting to
>> check there but the wolf man idea reminded me
>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> oh awesome eric
>>> maybe you could train your sidekicks too (thinkin it might be an
>>> application for that machine learnin stuff!)
>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:15 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> haha yeah, like i picture the area being filled with laid back pretty
>>>> cool undead dudes.
>>>> hey for ooze (werewolf stuff) idea info:
>>>> http://atma.demofox.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12
>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> hey eric, we should do a joke too (like maybe it's part of this party)
>>>>> about like, what all the monsters do when no one is lookin...
>>>>> like skeletons jokin and smokin and they are like "oh crap here come
>>>>> some adventurers" toss their cigs into the fire and start grunting hehe
>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> okies (:
>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:07 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> i think the idea with the costume sounds funny where you crash a
>>>>>>> bizarre monster party or soemthing, we can work that in - why not?
>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> yeah it kinda would (:
>>>>>>>> hey eric since we are going more linear storyline now, does that
>>>>>>>> mean choices you make aren't going to affect the storyline so much?  
>>>>>>>> (i'm
>>>>>>>> assuming that they won't)
>>>>>>>> And how much leeway do we have for optional things like becoming a
>>>>>>>> wearwolf and stuff like that, besides just as part of a sandboxed area 
>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>> like a quest where you can become a warewolf temporarily and are 
>>>>>>>> limited
>>>>>>>> where you can go, then later on youre cured and let out - er yeah, like
>>>>>>>> beyond that would we let them just be a warewolf for the rest of the 
>>>>>>>> game?
>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> It would be pretty cool if you could somehow become a were-creature
>>>>>>>>> or undead as well
>>>>>>>>> I hope to see dracula drop his ice cream some day =P
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> and explanation for everyone else...
>>>>>>>>>> previously before i got a job makin games, me and kent were makin
>>>>>>>>>> a side scrolling game where you played as megaman.
>>>>>>>>>> the "main boss" was dracula from one of the castlevania games hehe
>>>>>>>>>> we wanted to have a cut scene where he was eating his ice cream
>>>>>>>>>> and it like, fell on the floor or something and he got sad
>>>>>>>>>> yeah... hahah
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> lol about dracula eating ice cream
>>>>>>>>>>> this might be a really gay idea (and i dont mean in the olde
>>>>>>>>>>> english way haha) but...
>>>>>>>>>>> back when we were thinking more of an open world, i was thinking
>>>>>>>>>>> it would be rad if there was like, a monster party w/ vampires and
>>>>>>>>>>> warewolves and skeletons and stuff.
>>>>>>>>>>> if you went in there as something like that it'd be a chill palce
>>>>>>>>>>> to hang out and stuff
>>>>>>>>>>> but if you went in there as a normal dude or a paladin or
>>>>>>>>>>> something they'd rip you up
>>>>>>>>>>> if something at all fits like that in our game (maybe you can
>>>>>>>>>>> wear a costume or maybe if you go in with someone undead in your 
>>>>>>>>>>> party they
>>>>>>>>>>> are cool to you) we could have dracula eating ice cream there maybe 
>>>>>>>>>>> lol
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:44 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely lots or weird hidden mini things everywhere!
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:38 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Speaking of that are we going to have weird hidden mini
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bonuses?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan, you still owe me dracula eating ice cream!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lol that's awesome (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are you thinking of using billboarded sprites for all the art
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or something?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:35 PM, eric drewes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secretly, wurmz and i are planning a mini level where you get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thrown into a land w/ pixel art and 8 bit music, etc. but dont 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell alan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shhhh
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Nick Klotz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree; 8-bit is awesome.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:39 PM, Chris Sherman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <cshermandesign@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think we should make an epic game that roxors in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> graphic and coding department but the sound is all 8bit old 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school!!!! Sorry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had a lot of sugar for lunch :p
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my BlackBerry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: figarus@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 18:33:34 +0000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: The tail end of milestone 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not just games... When you paint a picture, you don't just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> focus on the nose till its perfect then move onto the eyes. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We'll build the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> structure of the game first but it'll take 2 or 3 coats of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paint before its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> done. Even while the milestone 1 is "done" - it will likely 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be drastically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altered visually and mechanically (sound etc) by the time the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game is ready
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for release.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Baby steps :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 11:11:24 -0700
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: The tail end of milestone 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and yeah, hopefully sound will be coming in either this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone or next (depending on what we have time for!)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another thing about the milestones is we want to balance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the amount of tech work needed and the amount of art work 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needed so that one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> side isn't waiting on the other too much.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like if the cave is prettied up 100% but there's no sound,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you artists shouldnt have to wait while i code in sound 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You could move onto the next milestone but keeping everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> focused on the same area and keeping us all on the same page 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (at least for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now in the beginning while we are still hammering things out) 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is worth more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than being fully feature complete right away.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a pretty common thing for games too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like, games work towards alpha while making their content
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (maps, art, etc).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alpha means the game is fully playable from start to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finish.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Beta means that it's feature complete (note that it isnt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feature complete until AFTER it's fully playable)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then from beta to release, it's just bug fixes and final
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spit and pollish (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah exactly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we don't want to sit around in one area and wait on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entire game to be fleshed out, or we'd be waiting forever 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and be stuck on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this cave for months and months and months longer and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meanwhile have nothing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else done.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The purpose of the milestones is to break up creating the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game into bitesized chunks that get us closer and closer to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a full
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> featureset and a full game.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We'll come back to it, but it's served it's purpose for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now and is like 90% of the way there so as soon as we have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more of a game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world we can hook it in and finish it up (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe adding sound is a large task. We will revisit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the cave later once we know where it will fit into the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world and we will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to add in all the new features we have created then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Matthew Freeland
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By the way I Think an important thing to work on some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sound milestones before we move away from the mine. Just a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:00 AM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh and Eric wants to do #5, and i will do #4 if no one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else wants to (but feel free if you want to!!).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And i'll be doin #6 for sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not sure how the rest of it falls! (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This first milestone working on the cave has worked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out a lot of issues with workflow and gotten us a basic 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> set of features
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (enemy pathing, AI and a basic level editor) and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> preformance upgrades.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These were some of the main goals of this first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone so mission accomplished!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since we don't know where exactly this cave is going
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to fit in with the rest of the world, Eric was thinking 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would be best
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (even for the sake of sanity because we've been working 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on this area for so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long) to forgo to pollish phase of this map and leave it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at about 90%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finished until we do know the details of where it's 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going in the world and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can finish it up then, and I agree that is a good idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here's the things he identified as wanting to finish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up before we move on:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #1) Put the new boss art in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #2) Animate the dog men
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #3) Replace the stationary miner art
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #4) Finish decorating the cave with the props we have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (and any that anyone is working on)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #5) Do a lighting pass
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #6) I want to do an optimization pass for the models
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause i think a few models we can reduce the number of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> verts without losing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any major visual quality (and i'll run the simplified 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> models by everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before i check them in to make sure I don't ugly things 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up too much).  This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should boost overall performance which will let us place 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more objects while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining higher frame rates.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anything else that anyone really wants to get in or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does that sound ok to everyone?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are some known issues that we are just going to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leave for now (unless they are quick fixes and anyone 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wants to tackle any!),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we'll deal with when we come back to the cave later 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * the boss is too tall and clips through the bridge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (might be fixed with new art but maybe not)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * you can walk around and through the rocks that caved
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * theres places in the map you can still fall through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ground into infinity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * there's a few places where z fighting still happens
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Others: we haven't gone through a QA pass or play
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tested it to find the bugs we don't know about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eric and I are finalizing the details of the 2nd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone to make sure it makes sense from both a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> creative and technical POV
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the details will be released by the end of the week.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great job everyone, we are really kicking ass and this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is shaping up to be a great team! (:

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