And I don't believe 'specialization' should be a forced choice in the
beginning of the game, hindsight will limit the players ability to
choose what they'd really want. Lightning may sound cool but you may
find Earth being far cooler/more useful at later stages of the game.
It should be determined naturally by the player through use of
skills, generally somebody who wants to specialize will use that
elemental skill more often, and end up dumping their 'insight' points
for further progress.
On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 7:59 AM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
The way the trees are being designed now is, it's impossible to
max out.
You can max a skill, but not an entire tree [unless we later
decide there's a reason for full mastery for regular game play]
(Dragon for example, if you put every available point into it, you
become 2 points short of full mastery).
Maybe second or third playthroughs could allow for complete
mastery and in return, very difficult enemies?
I believe trees add a ton of depth and reply value to a game where
otherwise static skill sets can become redundant and give the
player less goals to achieve.
On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Heres another wrench to throw in the gears (better earlier
than later right??)
Another possibility (not saying i think this is best, just
throwing it out there) would be that when you start the game
you are forced to choose your elemental specialization, and
from there you are limited to the single elemental skill tree
of your choice, along with the general "town" and "dragon" tree.
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 11:33 PM, Alan Wolfe
<alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
You bring up an interesting point Hanaan (:
I like talent trees in some games like...
* Diablo / WoW - use talent trees to customize your
character to be unlike other characters and be a unique
type of fighter. A good way to make your character more
unique. Kinda adds some replayability cause you can
replay the game with a different type of character,
customized your own way, and it's a different experience.
* Gemcraft (flash game) - the talent tree in that game is
just how you get more powerful. You choose what you get
stronger at, but you can replay any level as many times as
you want to level up moer and spend more points in the
talent trees til all the skills are maxed out.
I dont like talent trees in some random flash games
because they are pointless (you dont really have a choice)
or in some other games, you are just going to max
everything out in the end anyways so why bother (gemcraft
to a degree but kind of not... also fable 2).
I kinda pulled adding talent trees outa the air to add
more depth to our game but are they appropriate? Maybe we
should talk about their purpose some in our game (:
#1 - Do we want talent tress to be there to customize your
character to have a unique game play experience / promote
replay? I think this could be an appropriate use of
things. We'd have to design the trees / game with this in
mind up front though so this is a good time to think about it.
#2 - Do we want to use talent trees as the way of the
player choosing how they get more powerful each level, but
in the end they basically max everything out and become
godlike? We could go this way maybe but shrug...
What do you guys think would be fun / a good way to go for
our game?
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Hanaan
<designs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:designs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
very nice ideas guys.
I think the core question is how important are the
skills to gameplay. if we are aiming to keep it
simple, then all the skills should serve a direct
purpose to gameplay in my opinion, instead of just
having a variety of skills for skills sake. talent
trees are a meta game. whenever theres a talent tree
in a video game it serves as alternate advancement.
unless this is our aim in the game, im not seeing the
point in talent trees.
a good example of functional, fun skills in a game is
actually god of war. comes to mind because ive been
playing it lately, hehe :) Kratos has many different
weapons, all with different styles, looks, feels and
purposes. but every single one has a purpose very
important to gameplay. you gain new power moves by
using weapons basically (killing things) so everyone
likes that idea already.
im not a huge fan of talent trees unless the point of
the game is character building. but simple spell
improvements/enhancements and such can be pretty
complex even though simple as someone already put it.
On 6/23/2010 2:10 PM, Kent Petersen wrote:
Sounds good man. I like where you are going with
this. I don't care about penetration in particular as
much as I was trying to make a point in variety being
good. I like what I hear.
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Nick Klotz
<roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Each skill will have their own unique properties
as well as shared properties, penetration is not
'too much' of a consideration
unless there is going to be horde type attacks in
the 1st person view, overhead kind
of eliminates this variable.
Will there be differences between elemental
combat skills? Oh hell yea there will be. I will
be working on creating a rough skill list over
the next week and releasing new information daily.
If anyone has any problem viewing the file I
uploaded please let me know and I can change the
file type to something compatible with what
programs you have. (:
And as always, if anybody has any other ideas,
suggestions, concerns, please voice them!
Feedback is the absolute most critical thing
during the design and concept phases!
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 1:03 PM, Kent Petersen
<kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I like the where you are going with this
system. I like how the skills you use will
get better with time. I have always enjoyed
that concept in games. It makes me want to
use my skills more to see how powerful they
will become.
Are there going to be specific differences
between the elemental combat skills? For
example fireball may have a blast radius
while lightning penetrates through targets.
Or is that going to be more of an insight thing?
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 5:47 PM, Nick Klotz
<roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Yea, the basic idea of it would be that
the basic skills you start out with are
still very useful and important at the
later stages of the game so its not like,
"oh I start with this but why level it
when I won't use it later"
Without getting into the art side of it
too much, yes I had thoughts of different
graphics such as larger fireballs, etc,
as the skill improved, at least as far as
the basic "bolt spells" go.
Glad you like the idea, any other input
or ideas, and feedback is surely welcome.
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 8:41 PM, Alan
Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
you know... the "using a skill to
make it better" idea is really awesome...
i really like the direction you are
going with all this (:
what would be really neat too would
be if we did something such as at
every 10 levels of a skill (could be
different for different skills), the
graphics of a skill could change too.
It's kind of the idea of fire 1, fire
2, fire 3 from final fantasy but itd
be the same spell you just get better
at it and the visual effects look
more awesome.
we could do fun stuff too like make a
really wimpy spell that if you level
it up does a ton of damage to the
hardest enemies in the game and that
kinda thing.
::high five::
really nice Nick, this is great stuff
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Alan
Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hey Nick, nice job!
Im a fan of making it simple too
usually and that simple rules can
make for more complex gameplay
(ironically!) but i think if done
right, these different options
could make a lot of replay in the
game with people wanting to try
diff methods and play styles.
"Player would gain 3 points per
level to use on the tree, this
model assumes 17 playable areas
(9 overworld, 8 first person) and
a potential of 4 total level ups
per area, so an assumed max level
of 68"
Cool deal. If we end up making
more levels or less, we should be
able to scale the points per
level or # of level ups per level
to stretch or squish this i
think. This is a good starting
metric for us to work towards but
yeah, just pointing out we can
adjust if necesary w/o too much
impact on things (hopefully!)
I like your idea of making it so
the more you use a skill the
better you get at it (and similar
skills). Do you think we'd show
someone's profficiency in a
specific skill to them or would
it happen behind the scenes?
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 4:45 PM,
Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
So I've been mulling over
ideas for skillsets, how they
will work, various variables,
etc, and I've talked to Eric
a little about balance and
simplicity vs complicating
things just to be
complicated, but I feel
complication adds depth. In
light of that, I wanted some
input, because I believe that
complication adds tremendous
depth and replay value if its
simple to the user.
I have in mind a couple dozen
skills, along with 8
trainable skill trees, with
two separate types of level
ups for all Elemental trees.
Player would gain 3 points
per level to use on the tree,
this model assumes 17
playable areas (9 overworld,
8 first person) and a
potential of 4 total level
ups per area, so an assumed
max level of 68 (game could
be playable at final stages
at much earlier levels for
players who decide not to go
over an area several times to
gain exp)
Skill Trees: [Elemental]
Fire, Water, Earth, Wind,
Lightning [Other] Population,
Town, Dragon
Insight leveling and combat
leveling are combined to
figure the total overall
power, however mastering one
skill may not be the most
beneficial to the player,
allowing for these two types
provide the ability to
specialize as well as keep
the player balanced in other
areas.
[Insight Leveling]
Skill points sent into the
trees via leveling will
increase overall abilities,
and unlock more sub-skill
sets, including the ability
to combine skills for
devastatingly powerful
attacks. There will be
enough of these to insure
that spreading out points
will not necessarily yield
any advantage or disadvantage
over dumping all points into
a specific skill.
[Combat Leveling]
Combat leveling is gained via
using Elemental skills.
Combat leveling increases
all attributes of all skills
under its relative element,
example:
Max level for any element or
skill is hard capped at 50
Fireball - Skill Name
Fire - Skill Element
ManaCost -
CoolDown - Time in seconds
between being able to use the
skill
Speed - Speed the physical
attack moves from player to
target
BaseDamage - Damage
DamageRadius -
SplashDamage - Damage outside
the normal damage radius
SetOnFire - %Chance to set
target on fire causing damage
over time
OnFire_Damage - Damage per
second target takes
OnFire_Duration - Time in
seconds target will remain on
fire
FireResistance - %Resistance
player gains from fire based
damage
Capture.PNG
If more information is
necessary on examples and how
this type of leveling system
will work, please feel free
to ask, I have more notes,
and am currently working on
more material, but I don't
want to get too involved with
this method unless approved.
