[project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 754
- From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 11:25:37 -0700
lol...
honestly there is an "acheivement" band wagon going on in games right now.
should we jump on or ignore it? :P
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 11:23 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> We could give an OCD award to players who win without taking any damage
>
>
> On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 6:46 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> buildings are a dime a dozen and losing one isn't so detrimental that you
>> are going to say "oh shit better reload my save"
>>
>> There's 6 per tile and there will be about 60 tiles in this map that you
>> can build on so thats 360 buildings.
>>
>> I dont think anyone will feel motivated to have to take the route that you
>> are talking about, but someone (such as MONK from tv!) may be ocd enough
>> that they need a perfect score hehe
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>> If we don't keep building damage, who is to say somebody won't go, "oh
>>> lets repair the buildings real quick", save/quit. BAM! Buildings are okay
>>> again.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> ok cool
>>>>
>>>> i bet we can handle keepin some global variables in sync to save that
>>>> stuff (:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That's all we need. I'm cool with that. No need to keep monsters or
>>>>> building damage.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Kent (and whoever else is interested)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm thinking for saved games maybe that we would only save...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * What houses you had built in your town and where they were
>>>>>> * Which monster spawners have been destroyed / sealed.
>>>>>> * Any "state" information about the area, such as if the boulder has
>>>>>> been destroyed in the 1st map, and whether you have already killed the
>>>>>> bat
>>>>>> boss or not
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everything else would be lost in a save/load. so for instance when
>>>>>> you went into an area or loaded a saved game, there won't be any monsters
>>>>>> spawned yet, there wont be scorch marks on the terrain, there wont be
>>>>>> fires
>>>>>> burning (if we add stuff like that) etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and im thinking too that when you go from one overworld area to
>>>>>> another, this is all the data that will be preserved too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> does that sound ok to you? Is there any other information that you
>>>>>> think we should be saving?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Interesting. You are right its not that complicated when you break it
>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Josh may change things but here's how i envision it (and how i would
>>>>>>>> do it if i were writing it)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> #1 - the version number
>>>>>>>> #2 - the hash of all the data stored
>>>>>>>> #3 - the "encrypted" data
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *The Version Number*
>>>>>>>> so writing the version number is easy. we'll have an int to store
>>>>>>>> the version number so the first 4 bytes of a save file will be the
>>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>> number. This makes it so if the game wants to load a file and it
>>>>>>>> knows it
>>>>>>>> uses version 5, but the file says it's version 3, it knows it's
>>>>>>>> incompatible. You'll be setting the current version number in the
>>>>>>>> Data_Save
>>>>>>>> and Data_Load script commands.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *The Hash*
>>>>>>>> A hash is kind of like a CRC or checksum. Basically imagine that
>>>>>>>> you looked at every byte in a chunk of data and added it together and
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> number it gave you at the end was 42. 42 would be a hash of all that
>>>>>>>> data.
>>>>>>>> That is a really simple hash, we can use something more complex if we
>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>> like MD5 or something else.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The data saved into the file is just name/value pairs where the
>>>>>>>> value can be a string or a number. When you set the global variable
>>>>>>>> "PlayerHealth" to 50, the name value pair is "PlayerHealth",50. So,
>>>>>>>> we make
>>>>>>>> a hash out of all of the name value pairs and then write that to the
>>>>>>>> file
>>>>>>>> next. What that does, is if someone tries to manually change a value
>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>> file (like by using a hex editor), the hash wont match and we'll know
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> tampered with it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They could also alter the hash to make it match, but they'd have to
>>>>>>>> know how the hash was calculated (which they can see by looking at the
>>>>>>>> machine code in the exe...) but while this isn't perfect security, it
>>>>>>>> stops
>>>>>>>> 99.999% of the people out there lol
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *The Data*
>>>>>>>> Next up we need to write the data. we would just write all the name
>>>>>>>> value pairs into the file. If people open up the file, they would see
>>>>>>>> variable names like "PlayerHealth" and it would be really obvious that
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> was interesting data they might want to try to change.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To further protect our save game files, i would use "xor" (exclusive
>>>>>>>> or) to xor all the bytes in the data against a constant. if you xor a
>>>>>>>> number by the same number twice, you get the original number back, so
>>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>> xor is a good way to do poor mans encryption (:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So basically, we'd xor all the bytes in the file against 145 let's
>>>>>>>> say. That will jumble it all so that if people opened the file it
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> just look like garbage. When the data is loaded, it'll be xor'd
>>>>>>>> against 145
>>>>>>>> again so that it goes back to normal and we get our nice, readable
>>>>>>>> variable
>>>>>>>> names back.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am totally interested. What more can you tell me
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> i have some ideas, but im going to wait til the town stuff is more
>>>>>>>>>> worked out.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> basically anything that needs to be saved / loaded has to live in
>>>>>>>>>> a global variable, but its ok if some specific data gets lost, such
>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>> scorch marks on the terrain. Those guys don't need to persist
>>>>>>>>>> across a
>>>>>>>>>> save/load :P
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We can worry about that stuff later after we get it working, to
>>>>>>>>>> make sure things get saved and loaded correctly.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> josh is going to work on the actual saving and loading of the
>>>>>>>>>> global vars, and the file is going to be not human readable (ie
>>>>>>>>>> slightly
>>>>>>>>>> encrypted) and will be protected from tampering via a stored hash of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> data being compared to hashing the data after load (if they dont
>>>>>>>>>> match you
>>>>>>>>>> know someone screwed with the file). more details available if you
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> interested, it's not too complex stuff actually (even if it sounds
>>>>>>>>>> complicated)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:51 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> could be interesting. Do you have any save load plans? Is that
>>>>>>>>>>> going to be something we work on soon or not until the end?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I do all of my saving in a csv format basically. Would you do
>>>>>>>>>>> something similar or is there more organization that goes into it?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> cool deal (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> it's going to be interesting making sure our save / load stuff
>>>>>>>>>>>> works right with all the crazy data like how many enemies are
>>>>>>>>>>>> alive and
>>>>>>>>>>>> what their positions are, which buildings are damaged or destroyed
>>>>>>>>>>>> and all
>>>>>>>>>>>> the other stuff :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> might be a lil work hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah sounds right.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i would just include it into the main menu code
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then when they click "main game" (new game) it would call the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gamevars_clear function (that was defined in gamevars.lua).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That function
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would do a data_clearvars() to kill all global variables, then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a data_createvar() for each global variable the game uses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since those functions dont exist yet, i think gamevars_clear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for now should just set some starting value to each global
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> variable used in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game. Like it would set health to 100 or whatever the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> starting health
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sound right to you?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that would cover it. How would you implement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gamevars.lua. Would you just add an include for it in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> config lua?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cool deal.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm also thinking that...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #1 - We need a Data_ClearVars() function which will delete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all global variables. We would call this before loading a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game or creating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a new game to make sure no values persisted from one game to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't be there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #2 - We need a function Data_CreateVar which you have to do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before you can read or write to any variable. If you try to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use a variable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without creating it, it will throw an error. I figure we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should make a rule
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we are only allowed to use this function inside of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gamevars.lua,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specifically in the Gamevars_Clear() function. This makes it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so all global
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game variables are declared in one space, and if we mis type a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> variable name
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or try to use a variable that doesn't exist, it will throw an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll see it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #3 - We'll need a Data_Save and Data_Load function for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving and loading games, but i'm thinking those guys will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> take a save game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> name and a version number. This way, if you do something to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the scripts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like add or remove a global variable, and the save game data
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no longer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compatible with the script, you can increment the version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number so that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Data_Load will return failure if you try to load a save game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the wrong
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version number.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I put these guys on the coding todo list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, yeah that makes sense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 8:25 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hrm how about making a file, something like "gamevars.lua"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and when they click "main game" on the main menu (which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be "new game"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eventually hehe) it calls some function from that file such
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GameVars_Clear() which initializes all the game vars to sane
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> values?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 7:54 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Think I should put the health variable in the ui.lua or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what then? It only made sense to me to put it in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> config.lua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:44 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh... config.lua is a special case lua file, it doesnt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have access to all the functions that the other scripts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reason is, it runs that file before anything about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the engine is set up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bug? I don't think global variables are working. Check
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the config lua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:40 PM, Apache User <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dhapache@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> User:korgath
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message: I thought I checked in these files but it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks like I didn't so I'm checking them in again. Sorry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if I did once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --tried creating global variable for life but it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesnt seem to work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --added life ui to main map (once again life value
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesnt work)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --updated bat hold to pop out bats at a different rate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --fixed a type on bat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --fixed a typo on trollhut
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Files Changed>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U ActRaiser/Scripts/Enemies/OverWorld/Bat.lua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U ActRaiser/Scripts/Enemies/OverWorld/BatHole.lua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U ActRaiser/Scripts/Enemies/OverWorld/TrollHut.lua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U ActRaiser/Scripts/GameOverworld/UI.lua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U ActRaiser/Scripts/config.lua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ==============================
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Project 1 Dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to unsubscribe, please send an email request to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> demofox@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Project 1 website: http://project1.demofox.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Project 1 SVN repository: http://pyotek.com/project1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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