[project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 628
- From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 10:54:16 -0800
so old school bump maps were just a grey scale image and would have fit in
an alpha channel.
however, the newer way is to use normal maps instead of bump maps (this is
what our game uses currently) which means that it encodes a 3d vector into
the RGB channels of an image.
IE it takes the X,Y,Z of the normal of each pixel, and stores that as the
R,G,B in the image of a normal map (thats why they are weird colors but look
more or less like the right thing).
So, to answer your question, our normal maps (bump maps) have to be seperate
images.
When the models go into the game, Kent or I have to set it to use the
appropriate bump map unfortunately ):
I'm working on upgrading the editor though, and once that's done you'll be
able to set the bump map to use from in game and not need Kent or I to do it
for you (:
Also, the bump mapping is kind of ugly in game right now (needs some math
upgrades), i want to upgrade it to look better, and if we can, i'd like to
use paralax mapping instead. If we go to paralax mapping, we still will use
the same normal maps, so all is well there, it will just be better looking
(:
paralax mapping example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZPsQtlHthQ
(:
On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 10:47 AM, katie cook <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> This is really good, cause I was wondering how to integrate the jpgs
> with the pngs and still be efficient. Cool.
>
> What about bumps though. Do you guys know if the bumps can be used in pngs
> by just an alpha channel and then we tell you how to work them?
>
> Or do they need to be a separate map that we specify to the tech side how
> to apply?
>
> --- On *Sat, 2/6/10, eric <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>* wrote:
>
>
> From: eric <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>
> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 628
> To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Saturday, February 6, 2010, 10:32 AM
>
>
> Actually I wasn't sure on this either, we should just make png the standard
> maybe since it does EVERYTHING (like transparencies,etc). What do you think
> alan? Does anyone see an issue!
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> ------------------------------
> *From: *katie cook <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx>
> *Date: *Sat, 6 Feb 2010 10:31:24 -0800 (PST)
> *To: *<project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> *Subject: *[project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 628
>
> So I can start using PNG as my staple file format instead of JPG?
>
> That would be wonderful, big fan on lossless compression =)
>
> --- On *Sat, 2/6/10, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 628
> To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Saturday, February 6, 2010, 10:27 AM
>
> oh and btw some more tips for whoever doesn't know it (:
>
> Our game supports lots of different file formats (jpg, gif, bmp, png, tga,
> etc etc)
>
> some of these file formats are smaller on disk (.jpg is the smallest) but
> when they are actually used in game it has to decompress them into memory so
> all file formats use the same amount of video memory (ie if a file is small
> on disk that doesnt mean its small in memory)
>
> Because of this, even though jpg is the smallest, it tends to add artifacts
> to the images due to the aggresive compression which can make art look bad
> sometimes (as im sure you guys have noticed before) and it doesnt really
> give us any benefit other than being smaller on disk.
>
> Anyhow, from our options, it seems like PNG is the best image format
> because PNG uses lossless compression - which means it compresses the art to
> make it smaller on disk, but your art is NEVER changed by the compression
> scheme, so it'll be pixel perfect in game to what you actually saw in
> photoshop.
>
> Also, PNG has an 8 bit alpha channel so you can specify transparency and
> semi transparecy which the game fully supports.
>
> So yeah, you can use whatever image formats you want but just wanted to let
> you guys know that PNG from a technical POV is a really nice format (:
> On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 9:02 AM, katie cook <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> I don't recall saying larger textures were better???
>>
>> I remember asking what the limitations were as to make sure I wasn't
>> overdoing it.
>>
>> I did mention that I have been trying to make efficient UV maps by
>> including all the pieces on one so that the tech side doesn't have to juggle
>> a bunch of different maps for one model.
>> Like when they make character maps, its usually just one painted uv map if
>> it is done well.
>>
>> Thanks guys, that my clarification, sorry if I added some confusion.
>>
>> Katie
>>
>> --- On *Sat, 2/6/10, Hanaan <hanaan.fu@xxxxxxxxx>* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Hanaan <hanaan.fu@xxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 628
>> To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Date: Saturday, February 6, 2010, 7:34 AM
>>
>>
>> Thanks a lot for this detail of info. did not know a drop of it, heh. I
>> thought Katie said larger texture is better so I have been resizing them
>> larger. Ill give this a go and see how well I can get it to come out!
>>
>> On 2/6/2010 1:30 AM, Alan Wolfe wrote:
>>
>> Nice hammer Hanaan!
>>
>> It looks very viking like (:
>>
>> Unfortunately the milkshape format doesn't support bump mapping so, how we
>> have to do bump mapping is...
>>
>> #1 - check the bump map texture in along with the normal textures
>> #2 - when the model goes into the game, Kent or I has to manually set the
>> bump on the right part of the model
>>
>> So yeah basically if you can check in the bump map texture too and say
>> which part of the model the bump goes on (im assuming on the stone part, not
>> the handle!) that would be most helpful (:
>>
>> Btw great job centering the model, that's perfect!
>>
>> The next peice of technical feedback i'd give you is i notice that on the
>> hammer, the woodgrain for the handle is a 2048x2048 texture and the texture
>> for the stone part is 2048x1024.
>>
>> The game uses 32 bit color so that means the woodgrain handle uses a 16MB
>> texture and the stone part uses an 8MB texture, totalling 24MB just for
>> textures for this one hammer.
>>
>> When you are making a game, you may only have 32MB total texture memory
>> for ALL of your props in a level total so you can see something like this
>> would eat up almost all of your texture memory (which is no good!)
>>
>> Because of that, when you model an object, you want it to use the smallest
>> size textures you can use where it still looks ok. For instance, i'm just
>> guessing but for a hammer like this, i'm betting two 256x256 textures would
>> be more than enough detail. Two 256x256 textures combined come only to
>> 128KB so as you can see that would save a BUNCH of memory.
>>
>> Anyhow give it a shot, see how small you can get the textures where the
>> hammer still looks ok. Keep in mind too the size of the hammer so you can
>> kinda get an idea of how it would look in game (ie if it's small in game you
>> dont need as much detail).
>>
>> Also if it helps, i can toss the hammer into a map for you so you can see
>> it in game, just let me know (:
>>
>> Anyhow great job on this peice, it looks really nice!
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:30 PM, Apache User <
>> dhapache@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=dhapache@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> User:hanaanfu
>>>
>>> Message: Simple hammer, bumped and textured.
>>>
>>> <Files Changed>
>>> A Art/Models/Maps/TheVoid/TheVoid/RockSmoo.jpg
>>> A Art/Models/Maps/TheVoid/TheVoid/hammer.ms3d
>>> A Art/Models/Maps/TheVoid/TheVoid/woodgrai.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> ==============================
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>>> Project 1 website: http://project1.demofox.org
>>> Project 1 SVN repository: http://pyotek.com/project1
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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