[project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
- From: Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:08:29 -0700
Sounds awesome
On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 10:54 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> all in the works my friend :)
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> it would be rad if we had swimming too (:
>>
>> and a climbing skill?
>>
>> or maybe some of these skills were based on strength and dexterity or
>> somethin
>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Matthew Freeland <
>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Heavy armor = Instant uncontrollable sinking in water quickly resulting
>>> in drowning. Ammirit?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 6:35 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> gemstone had that same issue, rogues hiding and ambushing in full plate
>>>> :P although they sorta fixed it
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Matthew Morgan
>>>> <MMorgan@xxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Right, having a thief wear plate armor is stupid, how’r you going
>>>>> to pickpocket someone when your banging around in full plate?!?!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>>>>> project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *eric drewes
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2009 6:26 AM
>>>>>
>>>>> *To:* project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> *Subject:* [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> yep, i really like heavy armor for some situations - wars, big battles,
>>>>> dispatching of villagers :P etc. etc. etc. and have some awesome plans for
>>>>> it... i just can't stand how in FF (even ff6/3) everyone (even locke...)
>>>>> wore full plate armor even though it made no sense for their character at
>>>>> all :P
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Matthew Morgan <MMorgan@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> For sure, I mean a full plate knight could’ve walked into any village
>>>>> and wreaked havoc, because pitchforks and shovels vs full plate = sad day
>>>>> for villagers.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>>>>> project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *eric drewes
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2009 6:12 AM
>>>>> *To:* project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> *Subject:* [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> yep... its not the best movie (but i liked it) but i think the biggest
>>>>> thing it demonstrated was how knights in heavy armor worked in a real
>>>>> battlefield. basically turns a competent warrior into a juggernaut! :)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 9:09 AM, Matthew Morgan <MMorgan@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Is that about Joan of Arc?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>>>>> project1dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *eric drewes
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2009 6:03 AM
>>>>> *To:* project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Subject:* [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> neat idea re: having the weight of the armor be needed to activate
>>>>> certain switches, we could also have balance puzzles maybe that work like
>>>>> that. For traps, armor will absorb damage so heavy armor will deflect a
>>>>> lot
>>>>> of damage. The main benefit for heavy armor will be combat though, but it
>>>>> will be VERY good.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you seen "the messenger" by luc besson, milla jovovich is in it.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, we will see, for sure. In fact, the heavy armor could possibly
>>>>> do something like activate switches and pressure plates that you can't
>>>>> use normally. It all depends on how we implement it and create the
>>>>> fun in it. That's why people give input (not just me, everyone on the
>>>>> team)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 5:47 AM, eric drewes<figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> > i agree, debate can refine and polish and inspire - i am all for
>>>>> debate. I
>>>>> > just feel like i am defending a system ad nauseum because the whole
>>>>> picture
>>>>> > isn't being looked at. basically, heavy armor is going to be totally
>>>>> bad
>>>>> > ass and it NEEDS this as something to balance it out.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > my game design philosophy is to make a ton of super awesome mutually
>>>>> > exclusive things so a player can build their ideal character based on
>>>>> their
>>>>> > style of gameplay but throughout they will have to make tough
>>>>> decisions
>>>>> > about which they value more. this is part of that philosophy!
>>>>> >
>>>>> > like, right now you THINK that no one will use heavy armor and it
>>>>> won't be
>>>>> > fun, but when you see the whole thing in action maybe you yourself
>>>>> will
>>>>> > decide that the heavy armor benefits are well worth not being able to
>>>>> jump
>>>>> > as far :)
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 8:17 AM, Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I just want to see everything done the best! Sometimes suggestions
>>>>> >> will spark a debate, and that's not always a bad thing.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 5:07 AM, eric drewes<figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >> > basically i view this entire argument as such:
>>>>> >> > i show you a puzzle piece for a massive puzzle i am working on and
>>>>> you
>>>>> >> > tell
>>>>> >> > me that the shape of the edges aren't aethestically pleasing to
>>>>> you and
>>>>> >> > they
>>>>> >> > need to be changed. :P
>>>>> >> > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 7:49 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> I understand your point - i just disagree with it :P It will be
>>>>> used,
>>>>> >> >> it
>>>>> >> >> will be fun, nothing will be half done or incomplete.
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 7:00 AM, Chris Riccobono <
>>>>> crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> You really seem to be missing my point though Eric. If we focus
>>>>> more
>>>>> >> >>> on things that will get used, we can make those more fun,
>>>>> instead of
>>>>> >> >>> adding things that either are half done or incomplete.
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> Basically, the way you think that it should be in just in case 1
>>>>> >> >>> person uses it, I think it shouldn't be because only one person
>>>>> will
>>>>> >> >>> use it.
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> But lets just put it aside for now, I don't want to ruffle any
>>>>> more
>>>>> >> >>> feathers here :P
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 6:46 AM, eric drewes<figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> > basically it seems to me that everyone's argument is "but I
>>>>> want to
>>>>> >> >>> > be
>>>>> >> >>> > able
>>>>> >> >>> > to jump far!" because we're just looking only at the jumping
>>>>> issue.
>>>>> >> >>> > Overall, the game will be balanced to make heavy armor
>>>>> desirable for
>>>>> >> >>> > some
>>>>> >> >>> > circumstances, and some people may be willing to sacrifice
>>>>> being
>>>>> >> >>> > able
>>>>> >> >>> > to
>>>>> >> >>> > jump stuff to get that extra protection.
>>>>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> > I really think you guys aren't looking at the overall
>>>>> picture. this
>>>>> >> >>> > isn't a
>>>>> >> >>> > jumping game. being able to jump far is not a requirement for
>>>>> >> >>> > beating
>>>>> >> >>> > the
>>>>> >> >>> > game. heavy armor will have advantages in other systems to
>>>>> offset
>>>>> >> >>> > not
>>>>> >> >>> > being
>>>>> >> >>> > able to jump as far. just because YOU currently do not think
>>>>> you
>>>>> >> >>> > would
>>>>> >> >>> > use
>>>>> >> >>> > heavy armor doesn't mean we should eliminate it for the people
>>>>> who
>>>>> >> >>> > may
>>>>> >> >>> > be
>>>>> >> >>> > interested in using it all the time or in certain
>>>>> circumstances.
>>>>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 9:42 AM, eric drewes <
>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >>> > wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >> well heavy armor isn't just for the hero and no one is forced
>>>>> to
>>>>> >> >>> >> use
>>>>> >> >>> >> it
>>>>> >> >>> >> for the main character, i don't want to just eliminate it
>>>>> because
>>>>> >> >>> >> we
>>>>> >> >>> >> wouldnt
>>>>> >> >>> >> want to use it. I think its best to give the players the
>>>>> option to
>>>>> >> >>> >> decide
>>>>> >> >>> >> how they want to play without us dictating how we think their
>>>>> >> >>> >> character
>>>>> >> >>> >> should be - the design is meant to lead people into making
>>>>> their
>>>>> >> >>> >> own
>>>>> >> >>> >> decisions about what they want to do.
>>>>> >> >>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:40 AM, Chris Riccobono
>>>>> >> >>> >> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> After reading the rest of the thread:
>>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> Nick's point about taking off heavy armor is a very good
>>>>> one.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> Sure,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> we can leave that in and let people do that, but we could
>>>>> also
>>>>> >> >>> >>> leave
>>>>> >> >>> >>> that out and dedicate more time to other stuff that players
>>>>> will
>>>>> >> >>> >>> end
>>>>> >> >>> >>> up using.
>>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> If we can figure out what players will like to use and what
>>>>> they
>>>>> >> >>> >>> won't, we're going to have that much better of a game!
>>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:13 AM, eric drewes<
>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > cool, i think it is a good compromise :) also, i
>>>>> understand your
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > concern w/
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > wanting an additional tier but maybe we can play with the
>>>>> jump
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > distances for
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > traps and solve it that way.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > in retrospect and upon further review i think that the
>>>>> super
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > jump
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > would
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > be
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > better at least 2x to create a distinct separation from
>>>>> normal
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > jumping.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> I like Eric's system. it is a hybrid of what everyone
>>>>> wants.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:37 AM, eric drewes
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> as do all men (and some women)
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Nick Klotz
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>> I wish women felt the same about relationships.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:30 PM, eric drewes
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> i guess a better way to say it is, i am all about
>>>>> value and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> bang
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> for
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> the buck. i am for making things complex and
>>>>> intricate - as
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> long
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> as adding
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> that complexity provides more depth and fun. if its
>>>>> just
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> complex
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> for the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> sake of making things more complex, i just dont see
>>>>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> point...
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Nick Klotz
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>> "we should make it as simple as possible and i am for
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>> simplicity
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>> for
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>> the record"
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>> You guys have no idea how true this is. You wouldn't
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>> believe
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>> ideas and systems I had to rethink when coming up
>>>>> with a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>> basic
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>> combat
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>> design.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:21 PM, eric drewes
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>> no problem :P hehe... yeah if it was an arcade game
>>>>> i
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>> would
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>> be in
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>> total agreement that we should make it as simple as
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>> possible
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>> and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>> i am for
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>> simplicity for the record - as long as its not at
>>>>> the cost
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>> of
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>> versatility
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:15 PM, katie cook
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>> <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> My bad E =P I have had no idea really how far/deep
>>>>> you
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> guys
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> were
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> wanting to go (hence me saying I wasn't for sure. I
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> though I
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> caught a while
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> back you guys mentioning launch on XBLA and I just
>>>>> got
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> arcade in
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> my head.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the clarification E.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> With my new understanding of the game =), I am on
>>>>> board
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> with
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> all
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> previously mentioned scenarious on abilities for
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> jumping/armor,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> etc. Not
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> that I wasn't before, I was just slightly concerned
>>>>> about
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> overthinking
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> simplistics.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 6/24/09, eric drewes <
>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update
>>>>> 270
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 6:27 AM
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> i want to explicitely thank chris, alan and katie
>>>>> for
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> offering
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> counter points to my original thought, i really
>>>>> think
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> having
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> alternate
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> perspectives of things will allow us to fully
>>>>> explore
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> elements
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> of game
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> design like this and that it will ultimately
>>>>> deliver a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> better,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> more
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> intuitive and most importantly more FUN gaming
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> experience.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> I do
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> not mind
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> debating the points as I have done below because
>>>>> frankly,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> if
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> I
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> cannot defend
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> the game design philosophy then the system we're
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> discussing
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> is
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> probably
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> broken and i need to work on it some more. besides
>>>>> that,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> it
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> has
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> been
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> my experience in designing the combat with nick
>>>>> that when
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> debating ideas
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> like this it occasionally inspires great new
>>>>> ideas. I
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> actually
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> consider
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> this to be a vital part of "pre-testing" so please,
>>>>> I
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> encourage
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> you to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> continue offering your insights and perspectives!
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> To give you a specific example, your idea about
>>>>> armor
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> making
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> you
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> slower and jump shorter will generally make players
>>>>> avoid
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> doing
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> that
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> in any instance they can. In action based games,
>>>>> skilled
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> players
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> will
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> go towards what is as fast and damaging as
>>>>> possible, and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> will
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> avoid
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> things like that on purpose.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> - this is by design, we want to encourage people
>>>>> who are
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> exploring
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> to use lighter armor, it makes no sense to go on a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> journey
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> into
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> a mysterious
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> temple that is bound to have traps, puzzles, etc.
>>>>> in full
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> plate
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> armor. We
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> want that style of armor to be reserved for people
>>>>> who
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> accept
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> the penalty of
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> speed/jumping for the enhanced ability to take hits
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> without
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> getting damage.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> this is a player choice.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> Also, having injuries slow you down will make
>>>>> players
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> feel
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> like
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> they
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> can't be damaged. For things like this you want to
>>>>> flip
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> tables,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> and instead create armor that gives players more
>>>>> speed,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> but
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> they
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> take
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> more damage. It might seem like a small thing, but
>>>>> in
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> eyes
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> of a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> player it can make a huge difference in gameplay.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> - also by design. We want players to feel like
>>>>> there are
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> concequences to being injured and it should be
>>>>> avoided as
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> much
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> as possible.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> There are penalties for being injured or dying -
>>>>> that is
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> major
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> part of the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> combat design here. We are trying to break away
>>>>> from the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> constant
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> healing/ressurection that has been the common
>>>>> thread in
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> most
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> rpgs. we're
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> trying to get away from the attrition system. more
>>>>> info
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> on
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> this
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> below
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> Basically ask yourself if you would play the game
>>>>> and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> have
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> fun
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> doing
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> the things you imagine.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> - one of my favorite gaming experiences is
>>>>> america's
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> army,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> what
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> makes it so great and so immersive is that you are
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> constantly in
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> fear of
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> your life so there is actual tension on the battle
>>>>> field,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> its
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> not like tf2
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> where you run out, spam attacks and if you get
>>>>> killed, oh
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> well,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> respawn. I
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> love the idea of players figuring out the best
>>>>> strategies
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> stay alive and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> learning tactics and skills to do it. yes, it is a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> challenge
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> -
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> but that is
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> what makes it so great! Another game I love, as
>>>>> alan
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> pointed
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> out, is
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> gemstone. Gemstone was ruthless with one shot
>>>>> kills,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> getting
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> your leg
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> chopped off and not being able to climb stuff,
>>>>> etc. like
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> there's areas in
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> the game you have to take your armor off and be
>>>>> athletic
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> enough
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> to jump in
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> order to make it over there. staying alive is a
>>>>> major
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> part
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> of
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> that game and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> everytime you got hit, you would bleed and feel the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> effects
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> of
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> it. as a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> player you had to learn to adapt your skills and
>>>>> player
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> style to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> prevent
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> yourself from getting damaged as much as possible.
>>>>> this
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> is
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> key element to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> the game design we are trying to go with. so to
>>>>> answer
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> your
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> question - yes,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> i think it'd be fun :P
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> Okay guys, this is just my opinion. =) For me when
>>>>> I play
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> arcade-ish
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> style games like I the ones I think (if I
>>>>> understand
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> correctly)
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> that we are
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> trying to make, I think Chris has got a really good
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> point. I
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> like to take
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> the easiest route possible to get to the next step.
>>>>> Not
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> that
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> we
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> should flake
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> on stuff. But we should make sure to not
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> scrutinize/overthink
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> things too
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> much if that makes sense.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> - this is an rpg, not an arcade game! :P the
>>>>> emphasis is
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> on
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> exploration, not just going as quickly as you can
>>>>> to get
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> next level
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> (although you can if you so choose). what makes
>>>>> rpg's
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> (and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> adventure games)
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> fun for me is finding all the little secrets that
>>>>> are
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> hidden
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> all
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> over the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> world. also, everyone is acting like 5 settings is
>>>>> so
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> complex,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> really the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> first one is only for special case scenarios and
>>>>> isn't
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> meant
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> be used
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> during actual gameplay, and the 5th one is really
>>>>> only to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> serve
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> as a special
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> thing for use like spells, flying, etc. there are
>>>>> only 3
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> main
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> ones, a weak
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump for heavily armored players, a normal one for
>>>>> most
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> people,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> and a long
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump for people who choose to sacrifice armor for
>>>>> speed
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> manueverability
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> I'd bet this jump level thing would more or less be
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> invisible /
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> automatic to the player. Like when you were
>>>>> heavier you
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> just
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> dont jump as
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> high or as far. The player might not know there
>>>>> are 5
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> levels of
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> jumping
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> ability, they might just realize "hey when i take
>>>>> off my
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> armor i
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> can make
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> that jump to that cave i couldnt get to before"
>>>>> (and of
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> course
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> maybe an NPC
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> tips you off to that fact). Or there are boots
>>>>> that have
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> description of
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> "wear to be able to jump higher"
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> -right, this is all an under the hood system. its
>>>>> funny
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> because
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> when i write stories, etc. i try to keep things as
>>>>> close
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> vest because
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> i like the reader to be surprised, i like keeping a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> mystery
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> something
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> for them to discover for themselves. this is also
>>>>> true
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> in
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> my
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> game design
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> philosophy, give players a ton of neat stuff they
>>>>> can
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> find
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> out
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> for
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> themselves if they want to... the irony is, as a
>>>>> team
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> we're
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> ALL
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> under the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> hood so i have to express all the hidden things to
>>>>> you
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> guys
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> so
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> it can get
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> made/discussed, but then everyone is like "oh that
>>>>> is
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> overly
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> complicated
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> there's no reason for that!" without putting
>>>>> themselves
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> in
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> shoes of the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> player who doesn't even know the system exists and
>>>>> that
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> its
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> just
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> there for
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> them to discover if they are curious and
>>>>> interested.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> 5 different jumps will matter only as much as we
>>>>> design
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> game
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> for
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> them to matter. In Diablo 2, the barb jump skill
>>>>> only
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> let
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> you
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> cross
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> certain terrain that wasn't walkable, so having so
>>>>> many
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> different
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> lengths was easily solved - just make the pits
>>>>> larger.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> If
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> we
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> can
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> find
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> an easy solution in our game - an equivalent to
>>>>> "just
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> making
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> pits
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> larger" - then we can add as many jumps as we want,
>>>>> and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> even
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> make
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> them
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> scale into flying!
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> I recently learned how to do the shinespark tricks
>>>>> in
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> Metroid
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> Redesign, and if we could make our jumps in the
>>>>> game
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> require
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> skill
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> curve somehow, that would reward the player for the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> ability
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> higher... almost like how in 3d Mario games, you
>>>>> have to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> right
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> as
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> you hit the ground again, within a certain amount
>>>>> of
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> time,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> so
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> you
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> can
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> do the triple jump.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> -i actually view it as a really simple system that
>>>>> allows
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> for a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> lot
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> of neat versatility in game design and player
>>>>> strategy...
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> something that
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> allows for more skill based movement if people are
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> interested
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> because i know
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> some crazy people (like nick) enjoy finding crazy
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> challenges
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> trying to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> exploit gameplay tools to get into areas, etc. i
>>>>> think
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> that
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> is
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> fun and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> great and should be part of our design. i picked 5
>>>>> as
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> number so there
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> would be differences between teh playing styles
>>>>> while
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> keeping
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> things we
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> needed to design/test for to the minimum.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> okay so lets get down to brass tacks here (how much
>>>>> for
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> monkey?)
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> (3 adunai points to whoever gets the reference)
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> IMO we have 2 options:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> a) 2 jump system - 1 for armor too heavy for you
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> (basically,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> non-jumping) and 1 for normal.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> pros: easier to design for, easier to test for, no
>>>>> need
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> think
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> about armor choices for the player beyond "is it
>>>>> too
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> heavy?"
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> cons: less versatile, no differences between
>>>>> wearing
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> light/heavy/medium armor for adventurers, no hidden
>>>>> areas
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> only
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> accessible by
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> people who invest and discover ways to jump
>>>>> farther.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> b) 5 jump system - as illustrated above
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> pros: more for the player to discover, another
>>>>> "tool" in
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> our
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> tool
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> box, gives extra strengths/weaknesses when picking
>>>>> armor
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> character style
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> cons: harder to design/test, may baffle some
>>>>> characters.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> now obviously i am biased towards B (the 5 jump
>>>>> system)
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> so
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> my
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> pitch
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> for it is, it'll be simpler in practice for the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> player/designer
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> than it may
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> seem to you right now, it's important for game
>>>>> balance
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> between
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> heavy/light
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> armor, players can really just make sure they are
>>>>> at
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> level 3
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> (normal) and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> they will be able to get through the entire game
>>>>> without
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> worrying about the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> difference in jump so i think there is zero
>>>>> bafflement
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> chance,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> and it gives
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> us another neat tool for desiging exploration and
>>>>> hidden
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> stuff
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> in the game.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> I am definitely open-minded and can be convinced to
>>>>> go
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> with
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> A) -
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> so
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> lets open it up to the forum and take a little poll
>>>>> and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> if
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> you
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> want to post
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> comments/thoughts/ideas - then it'll give us more
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> information to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> make a good
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> and intelligent decision.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> :)
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 7:55 AM, eric drewes
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> i didnt have time to read everythign yet but
>>>>> basically
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> here
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> is
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> my
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> take...
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 1 is basically a "your character is broken
>>>>> level"
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> doesnt
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> need to be designed for, its basically a penalty
>>>>> thing
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> we
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> can
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> use. it is
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> the extreme
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 2 is needed to differentiate heavy armor
>>>>> from
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> light
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> armor
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 3 is what we will design for, it is "normal"
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 4 is to sepparate quick characters with
>>>>> ultra
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> light
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> armor
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> from people wearing normal armor
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 5 is a special case scenario type of thing
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> we're basically just designing the game for level
>>>>> 3,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> with
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> maybe
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> small amount of special case scenario areas for
>>>>> level
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> 4/5
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> (like
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> under 2-3
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> per chapter)
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> i really don't think that it is overly complicated
>>>>> at
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> all
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> this
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> will be a SUBTLE thing, i.e. again, most of the
>>>>> things
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> like
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> this are only
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> designed for people who want the bonus, but dont
>>>>> have to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> have
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> it
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 3:01 AM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> yeah actually thats a good point, i remember
>>>>> playin
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> zelda
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> see objects which are obviously repeated (ie
>>>>> black
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> rocks
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> link to the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> past, or the docks in zelda 1 etc) and knowing
>>>>> "there
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> something up with
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> those" but you dont know til you have the item.
>>>>> I
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> forgot
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> about that, that
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> was kinda fun gameplay :P
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Chris Riccobono
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that's part of the fun of Zelda and
>>>>> Metroid
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> style
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> games...
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> getting those items that make you able to do
>>>>> things
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> didn't predict were
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> possible, so then the player wonders what cool
>>>>> thing
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> gonna
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> come out next
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> That's a pretty cool idea for introducing game
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> mechanics..
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> player doesn't know about them at all in the
>>>>> game
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> until
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> actually get
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> the item for it.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> yeah totally i agree with you.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> we were talkin about this before, we were
>>>>> saying
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> lots
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> optional things to discover in a game makes it
>>>>> seem
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> bigger
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> because we don't
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> advertise what the "edges" are.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> so yeah totally, if we advertise there are 5
>>>>> jump
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> levels
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ruins the magic, but if the player discovers
>>>>> "wtf i
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> jump
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> higher now?" they
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> might try to see just how high they can jump.
>>>>> Maybe
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> get to level 4 and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> never cap out at level 5, as far as they know
>>>>> the sky
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> limit even
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> though they are almost at the cieling hehe.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Chris
>>>>> Riccobono
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, about the player not knowing there will
>>>>> be 5
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> jump
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> levels,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> would trigger the "yay I discovered something"
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> emotion.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It's
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> fun to learn how to do something to reach new
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> places,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> know?
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Chris
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Riccobono<crysalim@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > I do believe simplicity brings about the
>>>>> most fun
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > when
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > done
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > correctly!
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > I think part of the fun of a game is
>>>>> learning how
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > use
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > system,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > too, so when you can learn it very easy at
>>>>> first,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > you
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > are
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > open to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > learning new mechanics as things go on.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Alan
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Wolfe<alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> You deffinately have a good point. Our
>>>>> game
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> isn't
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> arcadey
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> per se but it is
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> a game where you can go deeper if you want
>>>>> but
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> don't
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> have
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Like there will be lots to explore but it's
>>>>> all
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> optional
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> (Eric correct me if
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> im wrong lol).
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> I'd bet this jump level thing would more or
>>>>> less
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> be
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> invisible / automatic to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the player. Like when you were heavier you
>>>>> just
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> dont
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> jump
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> as high or as
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> far. The player might not know there are 5
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> levels
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> of
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> jumping ability, they
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> might just realize "hey when i take off my
>>>>> armor
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> i
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> can
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> make
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> that jump to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> that cave i couldnt get to before" (and of
>>>>> course
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> maybe
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> an
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> NPC tips you off
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to that fact). Or there are boots that
>>>>> have the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> description
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> of "wear to be
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> able to jump higher"
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> But yeah there is deffinate wisdom to
>>>>> keeping it
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> simple,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> especially keeping
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the end result the player sees simple.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Someone should be able to pick up the game
>>>>> and be
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> able
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> play without
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> having to read some huge manual :P
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the old saying "easy to learn difficult to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> master"
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> yadda
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> yadda
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:13 PM, katie
>>>>> cook
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Okay guys, this is just my opinion. =) For
>>>>> me
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> when
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> I
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> play
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> arcade-ish style
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> games like I the ones I think (if I
>>>>> understand
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> correctly)
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> that we are trying
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to make, I think Chris has got a really
>>>>> good
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> point.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> I
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> like
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to take the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> easiest route possible to get to the next
>>>>> step.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Not
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> that we
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> should flake on
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> stuff. But we should make sure to not
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> scrutinize/overthink
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> things too much
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> if that makes sense.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> I like the opportunity to get a little bit
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> deeper
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> with
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game if I choose
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to at the time, but appreciate when I
>>>>> don't have
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Usually arcades games
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> tend to be shorter in hours played. When I
>>>>> play
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> short
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game, I don't wanna
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> have to invest a lot of time and deal with
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> frivilous
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> features. The easier
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the game the funner it is for me (for
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> arcade/short
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> games. I
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> hope this makes
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> sense.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Chris Riccobono
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> From: Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN
>>>>> Update
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> 270
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:46 PM
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> 5 different jump levels is going to
>>>>> complicate
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> things a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> bit
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> more than
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> we want. Try to keep in mind that the
>>>>> ideal is
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> make
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game more
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> fun. Ask yourself, will 5 different jumps
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> enhance
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> enough to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> warrant the amount of coding, designing,
>>>>> and bug
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> testing
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> they will
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> require?
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To reiterate what I tried to stress early
>>>>> on, we
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> want
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game to be
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> as fun as possible, as simply as possible.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Having
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> complex game is
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> great if it enhances the experience, but
>>>>> if it
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> doesn't,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> it
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> becomes a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> hinderance - just another game, in other
>>>>> words.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To give you a specific example, your idea
>>>>> about
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> armor
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> making you
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> slower and jump shorter will generally
>>>>> make
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> players
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> avoid
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> doing that
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> in any instance they can. In action based
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> games,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> skilled
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> players will
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> go towards what is as fast and damaging as
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> possible,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> will avoid
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> things like that on purpose.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Also, having injuries slow you down will
>>>>> make
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> players
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> feel
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> like they
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> can't be damaged. For things like this
>>>>> you want
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> flip
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the tables,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> and instead create armor that gives
>>>>> players more
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> speed,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> but
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> [Message clipped]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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