[project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
- From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:46:26 -0400
basically it seems to me that everyone's argument is "but I want to be able
to jump far!" because we're just looking only at the jumping issue.
Overall, the game will be balanced to make heavy armor desirable for some
circumstances, and some people may be willing to sacrifice being able to
jump stuff to get that extra protection.
I really think you guys aren't looking at the overall picture. this isn't a
jumping game. being able to jump far is not a requirement for beating the
game. heavy armor will have advantages in other systems to offset not being
able to jump as far. just because YOU currently do not think you would use
heavy armor doesn't mean we should eliminate it for the people who may be
interested in using it all the time or in certain circumstances.
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 9:42 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> well heavy armor isn't just for the hero and no one is forced to use it for
> the main character, i don't want to just eliminate it because we wouldnt
> want to use it. I think its best to give the players the option to decide
> how they want to play without us dictating how we think their character
> should be - the design is meant to lead people into making their own
> decisions about what they want to do.
>
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:40 AM, Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> After reading the rest of the thread:
>>
>> Nick's point about taking off heavy armor is a very good one. Sure,
>> we can leave that in and let people do that, but we could also leave
>> that out and dedicate more time to other stuff that players will end
>> up using.
>>
>> If we can figure out what players will like to use and what they
>> won't, we're going to have that much better of a game!
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:13 AM, eric drewes<figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > cool, i think it is a good compromise :) also, i understand your concern
>> w/
>> > wanting an additional tier but maybe we can play with the jump distances
>> for
>> > traps and solve it that way.
>> >
>> > in retrospect and upon further review i think that the super jump would
>> be
>> > better at least 2x to create a distinct separation from normal jumping.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I like Eric's system. it is a hybrid of what everyone wants.
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:37 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> as do all men (and some women)
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I wish women felt the same about relationships.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:30 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> i guess a better way to say it is, i am all about value and bang for
>> >>>>> the buck. i am for making things complex and intricate - as long as
>> adding
>> >>>>> that complexity provides more depth and fun. if its just complex
>> for the
>> >>>>> sake of making things more complex, i just dont see the point...
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "we should make it as simple as possible and i am for simplicity
>> for
>> >>>>>> the record"
>> >>>>>> You guys have no idea how true this is. You wouldn't believe the
>> >>>>>> ideas and systems I had to rethink when coming up with a basic
>> combat
>> >>>>>> design.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:21 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> no problem :P hehe... yeah if it was an arcade game i would be in
>> >>>>>>> total agreement that we should make it as simple as possible and i
>> am for
>> >>>>>>> simplicity for the record - as long as its not at the cost of
>> versatility
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:15 PM, katie cook <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> My bad E =P I have had no idea really how far/deep you guys were
>> >>>>>>>> wanting to go (hence me saying I wasn't for sure. I though I
>> caught a while
>> >>>>>>>> back you guys mentioning launch on XBLA and I just got arcade in
>> my head.
>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the clarification E.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> With my new understanding of the game =), I am on board with all
>> the
>> >>>>>>>> previously mentioned scenarious on abilities for jumping/armor,
>> etc. Not
>> >>>>>>>> that I wasn't before, I was just slightly concerned about
>> overthinking
>> >>>>>>>> simplistics.
>> >>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 6/24/09, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
>> >>>>>>>> To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 6:27 AM
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> i want to explicitely thank chris, alan and katie for offering
>> the
>> >>>>>>>> counter points to my original thought, i really think having
>> alternate
>> >>>>>>>> perspectives of things will allow us to fully explore elements of
>> game
>> >>>>>>>> design like this and that it will ultimately deliver a better,
>> more
>> >>>>>>>> intuitive and most importantly more FUN gaming experience. I do
>> not mind
>> >>>>>>>> debating the points as I have done below because frankly, if I
>> cannot defend
>> >>>>>>>> the game design philosophy then the system we're discussing is
>> probably
>> >>>>>>>> broken and i need to work on it some more. besides that, it has
>> been
>> >>>>>>>> my experience in designing the combat with nick that when
>> debating ideas
>> >>>>>>>> like this it occasionally inspires great new ideas. I actually
>> consider
>> >>>>>>>> this to be a vital part of "pre-testing" so please, I encourage
>> you to
>> >>>>>>>> continue offering your insights and perspectives!
>> >>>>>>>> To give you a specific example, your idea about armor making you
>> >>>>>>>> slower and jump shorter will generally make players avoid doing
>> that
>> >>>>>>>> in any instance they can. In action based games, skilled players
>> >>>>>>>> will
>> >>>>>>>> go towards what is as fast and damaging as possible, and will
>> avoid
>> >>>>>>>> things like that on purpose.
>> >>>>>>>> - this is by design, we want to encourage people who are
>> exploring
>> >>>>>>>> to use lighter armor, it makes no sense to go on a journey into a
>> mysterious
>> >>>>>>>> temple that is bound to have traps, puzzles, etc. in full plate
>> armor. We
>> >>>>>>>> want that style of armor to be reserved for people who accept the
>> penalty of
>> >>>>>>>> speed/jumping for the enhanced ability to take hits without
>> getting damage.
>> >>>>>>>> this is a player choice.
>> >>>>>>>> Also, having injuries slow you down will make players feel like
>> they
>> >>>>>>>> can't be damaged. For things like this you want to flip the
>> tables,
>> >>>>>>>> and instead create armor that gives players more speed, but they
>> >>>>>>>> take
>> >>>>>>>> more damage. It might seem like a small thing, but in the eyes
>> of a
>> >>>>>>>> player it can make a huge difference in gameplay.
>> >>>>>>>> - also by design. We want players to feel like there are
>> >>>>>>>> concequences to being injured and it should be avoided as much as
>> possible.
>> >>>>>>>> There are penalties for being injured or dying - that is a major
>> part of the
>> >>>>>>>> combat design here. We are trying to break away from the
>> constant
>> >>>>>>>> healing/ressurection that has been the common thread in most
>> rpgs. we're
>> >>>>>>>> trying to get away from the attrition system. more info on this
>> below
>> >>>>>>>> Basically ask yourself if you would play the game and have fun
>> doing
>> >>>>>>>> the things you imagine.
>> >>>>>>>> - one of my favorite gaming experiences is america's army, and
>> what
>> >>>>>>>> makes it so great and so immersive is that you are constantly in
>> fear of
>> >>>>>>>> your life so there is actual tension on the battle field, its not
>> like tf2
>> >>>>>>>> where you run out, spam attacks and if you get killed, oh well,
>> respawn. I
>> >>>>>>>> love the idea of players figuring out the best strategies to stay
>> alive and
>> >>>>>>>> learning tactics and skills to do it. yes, it is a challenge -
>> but that is
>> >>>>>>>> what makes it so great! Another game I love, as alan pointed out,
>> is
>> >>>>>>>> gemstone. Gemstone was ruthless with one shot kills, getting
>> your leg
>> >>>>>>>> chopped off and not being able to climb stuff, etc. like there's
>> areas in
>> >>>>>>>> the game you have to take your armor off and be athletic enough
>> to jump in
>> >>>>>>>> order to make it over there. staying alive is a major part of
>> that game and
>> >>>>>>>> everytime you got hit, you would bleed and feel the effects of
>> it. as a
>> >>>>>>>> player you had to learn to adapt your skills and player style to
>> prevent
>> >>>>>>>> yourself from getting damaged as much as possible. this is a key
>> element to
>> >>>>>>>> the game design we are trying to go with. so to answer your
>> question - yes,
>> >>>>>>>> i think it'd be fun :P
>> >>>>>>>> Okay guys, this is just my opinion. =) For me when I play
>> arcade-ish
>> >>>>>>>> style games like I the ones I think (if I understand correctly)
>> that we are
>> >>>>>>>> trying to make, I think Chris has got a really good point. I like
>> to take
>> >>>>>>>> the easiest route possible to get to the next step. Not that we
>> should flake
>> >>>>>>>> on stuff. But we should make sure to not scrutinize/overthink
>> things too
>> >>>>>>>> much if that makes sense.
>> >>>>>>>> - this is an rpg, not an arcade game! :P the emphasis is on
>> >>>>>>>> exploration, not just going as quickly as you can to get to the
>> next level
>> >>>>>>>> (although you can if you so choose). what makes rpg's (and
>> adventure games)
>> >>>>>>>> fun for me is finding all the little secrets that are hidden all
>> over the
>> >>>>>>>> world. also, everyone is acting like 5 settings is so complex,
>> really the
>> >>>>>>>> first one is only for special case scenarios and isn't meant to
>> be used
>> >>>>>>>> during actual gameplay, and the 5th one is really only to serve
>> as a special
>> >>>>>>>> thing for use like spells, flying, etc. there are only 3 main
>> ones, a weak
>> >>>>>>>> jump for heavily armored players, a normal one for most people,
>> and a long
>> >>>>>>>> jump for people who choose to sacrifice armor for speed and
>> manueverability
>> >>>>>>>> I'd bet this jump level thing would more or less be invisible /
>> >>>>>>>> automatic to the player. Like when you were heavier you just
>> dont jump as
>> >>>>>>>> high or as far. The player might not know there are 5 levels of
>> jumping
>> >>>>>>>> ability, they might just realize "hey when i take off my armor i
>> can make
>> >>>>>>>> that jump to that cave i couldnt get to before" (and of course
>> maybe an NPC
>> >>>>>>>> tips you off to that fact). Or there are boots that have the
>> description of
>> >>>>>>>> "wear to be able to jump higher"
>> >>>>>>>> -right, this is all an under the hood system. its funny because
>> >>>>>>>> when i write stories, etc. i try to keep things as close to the
>> vest because
>> >>>>>>>> i like the reader to be surprised, i like keeping a mystery and
>> something
>> >>>>>>>> for them to discover for themselves. this is also true in my
>> game design
>> >>>>>>>> philosophy, give players a ton of neat stuff they can find out
>> for
>> >>>>>>>> themselves if they want to... the irony is, as a team we're ALL
>> under the
>> >>>>>>>> hood so i have to express all the hidden things to you guys so it
>> can get
>> >>>>>>>> made/discussed, but then everyone is like "oh that is overly
>> complicated
>> >>>>>>>> there's no reason for that!" without putting themselves in the
>> shoes of the
>> >>>>>>>> player who doesn't even know the system exists and that its just
>> there for
>> >>>>>>>> them to discover if they are curious and interested.
>> >>>>>>>> 5 different jumps will matter only as much as we design the game
>> for
>> >>>>>>>> them to matter. In Diablo 2, the barb jump skill only let you
>> cross
>> >>>>>>>> certain terrain that wasn't walkable, so having so many different
>> >>>>>>>> jump
>> >>>>>>>> lengths was easily solved - just make the pits larger. If we can
>> >>>>>>>> find
>> >>>>>>>> an easy solution in our game - an equivalent to "just making the
>> >>>>>>>> pits
>> >>>>>>>> larger" - then we can add as many jumps as we want, and even make
>> >>>>>>>> them
>> >>>>>>>> scale into flying!
>> >>>>>>>> I recently learned how to do the shinespark tricks in Metroid
>> >>>>>>>> Redesign, and if we could make our jumps in the game require a
>> skill
>> >>>>>>>> curve somehow, that would reward the player for the ability to
>> jump
>> >>>>>>>> higher... almost like how in 3d Mario games, you have to jump
>> right
>> >>>>>>>> as
>> >>>>>>>> you hit the ground again, within a certain amount of time, so you
>> >>>>>>>> can
>> >>>>>>>> do the triple jump.
>> >>>>>>>> -i actually view it as a really simple system that allows for a
>> lot
>> >>>>>>>> of neat versatility in game design and player strategy...
>> something that
>> >>>>>>>> allows for more skill based movement if people are interested
>> because i know
>> >>>>>>>> some crazy people (like nick) enjoy finding crazy challenges and
>> trying to
>> >>>>>>>> exploit gameplay tools to get into areas, etc. i think that is
>> fun and
>> >>>>>>>> great and should be part of our design. i picked 5 as the number
>> so there
>> >>>>>>>> would be differences between teh playing styles while keeping
>> things we
>> >>>>>>>> needed to design/test for to the minimum.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> okay so lets get down to brass tacks here (how much for the
>> monkey?)
>> >>>>>>>> (3 adunai points to whoever gets the reference)
>> >>>>>>>> IMO we have 2 options:
>> >>>>>>>> a) 2 jump system - 1 for armor too heavy for you (basically,
>> >>>>>>>> non-jumping) and 1 for normal.
>> >>>>>>>> pros: easier to design for, easier to test for, no need to think
>> >>>>>>>> about armor choices for the player beyond "is it too heavy?"
>> >>>>>>>> cons: less versatile, no differences between wearing
>> >>>>>>>> light/heavy/medium armor for adventurers, no hidden areas only
>> accessible by
>> >>>>>>>> people who invest and discover ways to jump farther.
>> >>>>>>>> b) 5 jump system - as illustrated above
>> >>>>>>>> pros: more for the player to discover, another "tool" in our tool
>> >>>>>>>> box, gives extra strengths/weaknesses when picking armor and
>> character style
>> >>>>>>>> cons: harder to design/test, may baffle some characters.
>> >>>>>>>> now obviously i am biased towards B (the 5 jump system) so my
>> pitch
>> >>>>>>>> for it is, it'll be simpler in practice for the player/designer
>> than it may
>> >>>>>>>> seem to you right now, it's important for game balance between
>> heavy/light
>> >>>>>>>> armor, players can really just make sure they are at level 3
>> (normal) and
>> >>>>>>>> they will be able to get through the entire game without worrying
>> about the
>> >>>>>>>> difference in jump so i think there is zero bafflement chance,
>> and it gives
>> >>>>>>>> us another neat tool for desiging exploration and hidden stuff in
>> the game.
>> >>>>>>>> I am definitely open-minded and can be convinced to go with A) -
>> so
>> >>>>>>>> lets open it up to the forum and take a little poll and if you
>> want to post
>> >>>>>>>> comments/thoughts/ideas - then it'll give us more information to
>> make a good
>> >>>>>>>> and intelligent decision.
>> >>>>>>>> :)
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 7:55 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> i didnt have time to read everythign yet but basically here is
>> my
>> >>>>>>>>> take...
>> >>>>>>>>> level 1 is basically a "your character is broken level" and
>> doesnt
>> >>>>>>>>> need to be designed for, its basically a penalty thing we can
>> use. it is
>> >>>>>>>>> the extreme
>> >>>>>>>>> level 2 is needed to differentiate heavy armor from light armor
>> >>>>>>>>> level 3 is what we will design for, it is "normal"
>> >>>>>>>>> level 4 is to sepparate quick characters with ultra light armor
>> >>>>>>>>> from people wearing normal armor
>> >>>>>>>>> level 5 is a special case scenario type of thing
>> >>>>>>>>> we're basically just designing the game for level 3, with maybe
>> a
>> >>>>>>>>> small amount of special case scenario areas for level 4/5 (like
>> under 2-3
>> >>>>>>>>> per chapter)
>> >>>>>>>>> i really don't think that it is overly complicated at all and
>> this
>> >>>>>>>>> will be a SUBTLE thing, i.e. again, most of the things like this
>> are only
>> >>>>>>>>> designed for people who want the bonus, but dont have to have it
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 3:01 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> yeah actually thats a good point, i remember playin zelda and
>> you
>> >>>>>>>>>> see objects which are obviously repeated (ie black rocks in
>> link to the
>> >>>>>>>>>> past, or the docks in zelda 1 etc) and knowing "there is
>> something up with
>> >>>>>>>>>> those" but you dont know til you have the item. I forgot about
>> that, that
>> >>>>>>>>>> was kinda fun gameplay :P
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Chris Riccobono
>> >>>>>>>>>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that's part of the fun of Zelda and Metroid style
>> games...
>> >>>>>>>>>>> getting those items that make you able to do things you didn't
>> predict were
>> >>>>>>>>>>> possible, so then the player wonders what cool thing is gonna
>> come out next
>> >>>>>>>>>>> :)
>> >>>>>>>>>>> That's a pretty cool idea for introducing game mechanics.. the
>> >>>>>>>>>>> player doesn't know about them at all in the game until they
>> actually get
>> >>>>>>>>>>> the item for it.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> yeah totally i agree with you.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> we were talkin about this before, we were saying having lots
>> of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> optional things to discover in a game makes it seem bigger
>> because we don't
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> advertise what the "edges" are.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> so yeah totally, if we advertise there are 5 jump levels it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ruins the magic, but if the player discovers "wtf i jump
>> higher now?" they
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> might try to see just how high they can jump. Maybe they get
>> to level 4 and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> never cap out at level 5, as far as they know the sky is the
>> limit even
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> though they are almost at the cieling hehe.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Chris Riccobono
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, about the player not knowing there will be 5 jump
>> levels,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> would trigger the "yay I discovered something" emotion.
>> It's
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> fun to learn how to do something to reach new places, you
>> know?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Chris
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Riccobono<crysalim@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > I do believe simplicity brings about the most fun when
>> done
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > correctly!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > I think part of the fun of a game is learning how to use
>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > system,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > too, so when you can learn it very easy at first, you are
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > open to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > learning new mechanics as things go on.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Alan
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Wolfe<alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> You deffinately have a good point. Our game isn't
>> arcadey
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> per se but it is
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> a game where you can go deeper if you want but don't have
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Like there will be lots to explore but it's all optional
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> (Eric correct me if
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> im wrong lol).
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> I'd bet this jump level thing would more or less be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> invisible / automatic to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the player. Like when you were heavier you just dont
>> jump
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> as high or as
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> far. The player might not know there are 5 levels of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> jumping ability, they
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> might just realize "hey when i take off my armor i can
>> make
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> that jump to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> that cave i couldnt get to before" (and of course maybe
>> an
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> NPC tips you off
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to that fact). Or there are boots that have the
>> description
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> of "wear to be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> able to jump higher"
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> But yeah there is deffinate wisdom to keeping it simple,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> especially keeping
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the end result the player sees simple.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Someone should be able to pick up the game and be able to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> play without
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> having to read some huge manual :P
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the old saying "easy to learn difficult to master" yadda
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> yadda
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:13 PM, katie cook
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Okay guys, this is just my opinion. =) For me when I
>> play
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> arcade-ish style
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> games like I the ones I think (if I understand
>> correctly)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> that we are trying
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to make, I think Chris has got a really good point. I
>> like
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to take the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> easiest route possible to get to the next step. Not that
>> we
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> should flake on
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> stuff. But we should make sure to not
>> scrutinize/overthink
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> things too much
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> if that makes sense.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> I like the opportunity to get a little bit deeper with a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game if I choose
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to at the time, but appreciate when I don't have to.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Usually arcades games
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> tend to be shorter in hours played. When I play a short
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game, I don't wanna
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> have to invest a lot of time and deal with frivilous
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> features. The easier
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the game the funner it is for me (for arcade/short
>> games. I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> hope this makes
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> sense.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Chris Riccobono <
>> crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> From: Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:46 PM
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> 5 different jump levels is going to complicate things a
>> bit
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> more than
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> we want. Try to keep in mind that the ideal is to make
>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game more
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> fun. Ask yourself, will 5 different jumps enhance the
>> game
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> enough to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> warrant the amount of coding, designing, and bug testing
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> they will
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> require?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To reiterate what I tried to stress early on, we want
>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game to be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> as fun as possible, as simply as possible. Having a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> complex game is
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> great if it enhances the experience, but if it doesn't,
>> it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> becomes a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> hinderance - just another game, in other words.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To give you a specific example, your idea about armor
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> making you
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> slower and jump shorter will generally make players
>> avoid
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> doing that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> in any instance they can. In action based games,
>> skilled
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> players will
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> go towards what is as fast and damaging as possible, and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> will avoid
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> things like that on purpose.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Also, having injuries slow you down will make players
>> feel
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> like they
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> can't be damaged. For things like this you want to flip
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the tables,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> and instead create armor that gives players more speed,
>> but
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> they take
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> more damage. It might seem like a small thing, but in
>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> eyes of a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> player it can make a huge difference in gameplay.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Basically ask yourself if you would play the game and
>> have
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> fun doing
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the things you imagine.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Alan
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Wolfe<alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > you know the kind of cool thing about this too
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > we could actually make situations that you couldn't
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > escape from, and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > have
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > things like pits that when you fall into them you die
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > instantly and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > return
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > to the void.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > those are really mean (literally!) features but if we
>> use
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > them sparingly
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > or
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > in some kind of "i told you not to look in the box"
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > situations that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > could be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > actually pretty funny.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > im not sure if you are down with it, but it would
>> bring a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > feeling of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > mortality :P
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > ps i'll add the previous ideas to the wiki once i get
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > home if no one
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > else
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > has by then. I dont mind but just can't right now :P
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:44 PM, eric drewes
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> yes - harsh but like i said, its an emergency only
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> option to be as a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> last
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> resort... i think any other way of doing it will
>> allow
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> too many holes
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> for
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> exploits (such as exp or item farming, etc)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> so would you lose all exp, gold and items gained
>> then?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:41 PM, eric drewes
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> yeah i think that is what we';ll do, you can recall
>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> the void at
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> any
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> time but it effectively just restores a saved game
>> so
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> you gain no
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> benefit to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> it. We'll make this sort of a last ditch option,
>> so
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> we'll try to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> design it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> so people never have to use it under normal
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> circumstances
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> no, im just here to poke holes in your ideas <g>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> jk but no im not sure... other than perhaps the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> player can return to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> the void at any time, and the cost is that you've
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> lost all the time
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> you've
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> taken to progress to where you are (ie you have to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> walk back)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:38 PM, eric drewes
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> wait i take that back, i'll have to think of a
>> real
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> solution. any
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> ideas?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> ok
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> is recall always going to be available?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:35 PM, eric drewes
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> recall
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> ok sounds good. the lax attitude and not
>> needing
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> perfection
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> will
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> make it alot easier to test and build. We'll
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> just have to make
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> sure and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> keep that in mind when designing things.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> actually i think we will probably still have
>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> do a lot of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> testing
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> with the various jumps to make sure people
>> can't
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> get somewhere
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> they arent
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> meant to be that they cant get out of - ie i
>> can
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> enter this
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 3 jump
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> area but i can't escape.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> what's your thoughts on that situation?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:29 PM, eric drewes
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> well 2 things...
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> 1 - i am comfortable with the testing, i
>> think
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> it'll add a lot
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> the game - what do you guys think?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> 2 - alan i would really say we'd only need to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> test for 2 things
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> -
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> the ability for level 2 to get past areas
>> that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> have no
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> non-jumping route
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> through and to make sure tier 5 people can't
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> exploit anything
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> we don't want
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> them too... i would say if a tier 3 person
>> can
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> find a way to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> get over
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> something designed as a secret for level 4
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> people, then that is
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> ok w/ me,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> and likewise with level 4 getting to level 5
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> areas. if they
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> can find a way
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> to overcome the handicap, i dont want to stop
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> them :)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> and of course another option is we just
>> design
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> it where fine
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> tuned details like that aren't important
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> like if you can jump it instead of having to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> get a rope and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> climb
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> up, who cares!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> but shrug just wanted to point out this
>> aspect
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> of the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> solution!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I like the idea. It deffinately makes
>> thigns
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> more
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> exploration
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> based since we could put places that you
>> can't
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> get to while
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> starting out
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This isn't a deal breaker but i want to
>> point
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> out this will
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> increase testing and designing time:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * all maps will have to be played with the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> highest jump level
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> make sure they cant exploit anything they
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't be able
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * all maps will have to played with the
>> lowest
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> jump level to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> make sure the minimum we want passable is
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> passable
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * for maps which have a specific jump
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> requirement areas (ie
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> level 3 lets you get to this area) we'll
>> have
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to play with
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> that level as
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> well as the next level down to make sure
>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> one below can't
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> get up too.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:11 PM, eric
>> drewes
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> what do you guys think of that scale?
>> that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> way we dont have
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> guess when we design and we have a
>> baseline
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> standard
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:58 PM, eric
>> drewes
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a voice spoke from the mountain
>> tops,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and let it be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoken, there shall be 5 different tiers
>> of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jumping
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability, one for hardly
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any jump at all, the next for between
>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current jump and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the previous
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> levels not-really-a-jump, the third is
>> what
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is there now,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the fourth for a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump equal to 1.5x as high/far as the
>> 3rd
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a fifth that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is triple the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normal jump - this will be reserved for
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> special facet,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> item boosts or a max
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100 quickness bonus.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically it is like this:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 1) barely a jump at all, this will
>> be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for incredibly
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fat characters (w/ the fat facet) people
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with super heavy
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor that they
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't strong enough to wear, incredibly
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> injured people,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people with snake
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> torsos, etc :-P
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 2) this is what people wearing
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate/heavy chain
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or have relatively strong long injuries,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc. etc. will
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 3) most characters will have this
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump, traps, etc.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be designed with this as the
>> minimum
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - though
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically we want it to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a challenge for level 3 people. some
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> areas can be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed so it's
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inaccessible without level 4 though, but
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing vital to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passing the map -
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also, traps/jump areas that aren't
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible except
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through jumping should
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use level 2 as a minimum.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 4) super athletic character with
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> light or no armor
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have this, they can reach special areas
>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other 3 levels
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't, jump
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> puzzles should be easier for level 4
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 5) these characters are magically
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> imbued or have
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> super
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> humanly agility, maybe they have little
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wings, etc. by
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passable traps, areas
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that can only be reached via long
>> distance
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> travel, etc
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these characters have
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a big advantage on all jumping matters.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Kent
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Petersen
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man, that sounds awful. At least we
>> have
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learned these
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lessons and now know how to prevent
>> them
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Alan
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolfe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> btw line rider had the same issues tee
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hee
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In line rider, people were exploiting
>> a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simple physics
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation to do tricks like gravity
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wells and nose
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grinds and other stuff.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we made the commercial version of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game we had
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure all the tricks were still
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible and we
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brought in tech dawg to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play it and make sure everything was
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still kosher.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the parts that sucked - whenever we
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> optomized something
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game it would break all existing
>> test
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maps we had
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made so we had to wait
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> til the very end of the game to make
>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> puzzle maps.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also, since the DS, Wii and PC all
>> have
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point math chips in them (and ds had
>> diff
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code), maps
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't work the same
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on all the different platforms so we
>> had
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep sharing
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be on the same
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform it was created on.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Alan
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolfe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its ok man ::shakes you:: the wars
>> over,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nixon is outa
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office now
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Kent
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Petersen
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Kent is having megaman flashbacks*
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:47 PM,
>> Alan
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolfe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indeed! I'm going to re-iterate
>> what
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you said Kent
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so people understand the importance
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should figure out how high / far
>> we
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be able to jump and how strong
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gravity should be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muey importante~!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once we decide we can't change
>> without
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rebuild
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and rebalance any existing physics
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dependant maps (ie
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skill jumps, gaps that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the player should or should not be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to jump over
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc) which is a total
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pain and could really be really
>> really
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destructive to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our game having to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rebuild and rebalance a whole bunch
>> of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crap later.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, lookin at you Eric, we should
>> talk
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finalizing.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there anything specifically you
>> for
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure want the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player to be able to do? IE jump
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> across a certain
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distance, jump over a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certain hight object etc
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:31 PM,
>> Kent
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Petersen
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What did you want to do for the
>> first
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trap? I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> imagined
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that there would be 5 or so
>> different
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking tiles.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then there would be one
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct kind of tile (not the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> diamond). Then the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player would have to jump
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about through the tiles to the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct ones. I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figured it would work
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similarly to the ones that were on
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kenttest.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's your thoughts on that?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before you get to into designing
>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temple I would
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highly suggest that we nail down
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player control and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jumping physics. Let me
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> warn you from experience, if we
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change how any of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that works your temple
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become obsolete.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:25 PM,
>> Kent
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Petersen
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Been really busy today and will
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably be busy
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> next couple days. I would suggest
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leaving the trap
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> areas open for now. If
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are willing to push on anyway
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and have specific
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions, send em my
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way and I will be happy to help
>> out
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when I get a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chance.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 2:23 PM,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan Wolfe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man that's awesome
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 2:16 PM,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache User
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <dhapache@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> User:rorac
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message: Expanded a little on
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templemap, added
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> template code as per Kent's
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advisement.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Need a sign (next room is
>> diamond
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> path). Kent, I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will need your help to help
>> build
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that part and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> begin putting traps in the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hallway (first right = first
>> trap
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> area).
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Files Changed>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U Scripts/Maps/templemap.lua
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> Scripts/Maps/templemap_geometry.lua
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> ;>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
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>
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