[project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
- From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:27:15 -0400
i wish you were close enough for me to strangle haha...
ok, but i did find a different way to express this - and this is actually an
argument for asdf's 1 jump system more than an argument for the 5 tier
system, but i still think it gets the idea across
ok imagine jumping is like the hookshot in zelda. being able to jump gives
you access to areas that you can't just walk across. a scaling jump (1-100)
like nick is suggesting is like giving the player a hookshot that has a
variable length. imagine the frustration and design difficulties to design
for that, how do we make sure that all players can get across, what about a
player who is just a little too short on the hookshot, do they have to go
grind for 3-4 levels so they can come back and go across? i think being
able to know your general level of jumpiness makes it easier to know what
you have access to and what you don't, so people dont just try to jump (and
fall) every single thing they come across. from a design standpoint, having
no real standard makes it so hard as well...
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Eric's superior logic and reasoning have convinced me. That man is a
> preacher!
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:10 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> we have Nick on one end arguing for a completely 1-100 tier variable for
>> jumping, we have chris arguing for no tiers and just one jump system so it
>> is easier for the player to know what is going on, i believe the tier system
>> is a good hybrid that allows the ease of use and intuitiveness that asdf is
>> advocating while still giving range and versatility that nick is advocating.
>>
>>
>> as far as people taking off armor to go through traps being tedious, i
>> have 3 thoughts on this:
>>
>> 1) lol... so exploiting the system is tedious... good!
>>
>> 2) we can figure out a way to make the item system work to make swapping
>> armor to exploit traps have a major downside. i have an idea for this in
>> mind but havent' fully explained it yet
>>
>> 3) no one is forcing anyone to use heavy armor while exploring, if they
>> want to do that, they have to realize there are concequences to that
>> decision. I see no problem with that.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>> For example, I just beat Redesign to check my item%, time is over 19
>>> hours played. The creator of the game knows all the tricks/cheats, he can
>>> exploit and beat the game in 1:12. It took me that long to get the bombs.
>>> :\
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> ok great, just makin sure... from the tech and QA pov, that solves a ton
>>>> of issues so good.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> that would be a pallpark figure and we wouldnt care if the player found
>>>>> a way in (ie hump the wall while jumping or something) before they had
>>>>> those
>>>>> exact stats right?
>>>>>
>>>>> Absolutely right. If a player is intuitive enough to find another way,
>>>>> they should be rewarded for their efforts.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Exploratory areas could require a 100 quickness stat + facet
>>>>>> bonuses + items to reach certain areas (in a couple extreme cases)."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> that would be a pallpark figure and we wouldnt care if the player
>>>>>> found a way in (ie hump the wall while jumping or something) before they
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> those exact stats right?
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Nick Klotz
>>>>>> <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My proposal of an analog system for jumping.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "There is no clear tier for us to design for"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Create one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I firmly believe this will not be an issue at all. All players start
>>>>>>> with a base jump of 10 (1 meter), increasing quickness stat, finding
>>>>>>> facets,
>>>>>>> and special items will increase jumping ability.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Quickness could as an example add 2 for every 5 points invested,
>>>>>>> increasing the Jump to 30 at 50 points, and a Jump of 50 at 100
>>>>>>> quickness.
>>>>>>> With further benefits again, for facets and special items. This may
>>>>>>> seem a
>>>>>>> bit much but remember there are penalties for armor, injury, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As a TIER system, areas could be made to urge a player to be a
>>>>>>> certain level to reach diffrent areas. No standard area where you have
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> make a jump would require a huge quickness stat or facet bonuses, so the
>>>>>>> jumps wouldn't be that far, but would require more skill as a player to
>>>>>>> land, assume an average of 60 quickness by near the end of the game, and
>>>>>>> that's your tier.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Exploratory areas could require a 100 quickness stat + facet bonuses
>>>>>>> + items to reach certain areas (in a couple extreme cases).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Basically, you settle for 1 meter - 3 meter jumps to beat the game,
>>>>>>> and use the rest as exploration/bonuses.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:34 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ok and just another note... like nick and kent both said "we would
>>>>>>>> give up using heavy armor for the extra speed and manueverability" well
>>>>>>>> yeah- exactly, that is the point :) i want you to be able to make that
>>>>>>>> decision on your own and not have it thrust upon you. I would make
>>>>>>>> the same
>>>>>>>> decision! having those kinds of options for customization is a major
>>>>>>>> part
>>>>>>>> of the design philosophy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:29 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> well the jump differences i gave were just examples that could be
>>>>>>>>> tweaked, i.e. the athletic jump could be 2x or 3x whatever we decided
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> give them over the normal.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> heavier armor -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> well let me start by saying the design is meant to keep most people
>>>>>>>>> from using heavier armor, if you're exploring, you shouldnt be
>>>>>>>>> wearing full
>>>>>>>>> plate or heavy chain armor, it is unrealistic. I am a fan of medium
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> light armors being the de facto standard but giving people who WANT
>>>>>>>>> heavy
>>>>>>>>> armor to use it if they desire.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Heavy armor would absorb damage from attacks, the main advantage to
>>>>>>>>> heavy armor being that it protects better in combat. People can
>>>>>>>>> decide
>>>>>>>>> whether to trade manueverability for the extra protection if they
>>>>>>>>> want, or
>>>>>>>>> maybe they just wear heavy armor when going up against a particular
>>>>>>>>> boss or
>>>>>>>>> maybe before going into a big battle with multiple foes and the extra
>>>>>>>>> protection is worth the loss in dodging, etc.. basically, heavy
>>>>>>>>> armor is a
>>>>>>>>> special case scenario and not something most characters will want to
>>>>>>>>> wear
>>>>>>>>> most of the time, especially in exploration. The design is meant to
>>>>>>>>> LEAD
>>>>>>>>> people to discover this on their own, so we're not forcing them to
>>>>>>>>> not wear
>>>>>>>>> heavy armor all the time but we're making it beneficial for them not
>>>>>>>>> to.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> as far as removing armor, going through a trap, then putting it
>>>>>>>>> back on... well like i said, i don't encourage players to use heavy
>>>>>>>>> armor
>>>>>>>>> during exploration, if they want to go that route they can, but no
>>>>>>>>> one is
>>>>>>>>> forcing them to.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also remember that heavier armor could be something you'd equip to
>>>>>>>>> party members rather than the hero if you wanted a pure tank in your
>>>>>>>>> group,
>>>>>>>>> and that would not affect manuevering.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking there should be another tier for exploration's
>>>>>>>>>> sake. In your example you mentioned athletic being 1.5x jump and
>>>>>>>>>> magical
>>>>>>>>>> being 3.0x jump. I was thinking there should be a middle ground to
>>>>>>>>>> create
>>>>>>>>>> more levels of advanced areas you can reach. If we design the game
>>>>>>>>>> properly
>>>>>>>>>> this can be avoided and not an issue.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Heavier armor - What about out running enemies? In the cave our
>>>>>>>>>> enemies chase down the player. If the player is wearing heavier
>>>>>>>>>> armor he is
>>>>>>>>>> just kinda fucked by comparison to someone wearing lighter armor and
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> better at avoiding enemies. A trade off would be taking less damage
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> combat but the player will most likely fight slower as well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What are the pros and cons to heavier armor?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Are there over-world benefits for wearing heavier? Such as
>>>>>>>>>>> resistance to different traps? If no, what's to say a player won't
>>>>>>>>>>> remove
>>>>>>>>>>> armor for doing maneuvers, then putting it back on to fight an
>>>>>>>>>>> enemy; such a
>>>>>>>>>>> case could get tedious fairly quickly.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:10 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> just a quick clarification:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) can't jump - only used to penalize people who wear armor they
>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't strong enough for or for certain other special case
>>>>>>>>>>>> scenarios
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) small jumping ability, used for injured players and players
>>>>>>>>>>>> using plate armor
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) normal - the baseline we design for
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) extra-ordinary - this is for super athletic characters (or
>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe special boots) that let you jump extra far, gives access to
>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>> special areas.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) magically imbued - this is very rare special case scenario, i
>>>>>>>>>>>> actually think this one is possibly superfluous and could probably
>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> eliminated without losing much.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the reasons for this is that people can understand their
>>>>>>>>>>>> capabilities and limitations easily, there's less variables for
>>>>>>>>>>>> them to
>>>>>>>>>>>> understand and for us to design for, while still allowing a
>>>>>>>>>>>> versatile system
>>>>>>>>>>>> that benefits players who go with lighter armor or find special
>>>>>>>>>>>> items that
>>>>>>>>>>>> let them jump farther, etc. etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:06 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I like Eric's system but I feel like there should be more than
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5 tiers. I was writing out a big counter point but in the end I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> convinced
>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself that I like this method best. I think there should be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tier between
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 and 5. A tier where the player is better than most but not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> magically
>>>>>>>>>>>>> imbued."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> well that was sort of the purpose for tier 4, to give something
>>>>>>>>>>>>> between a normal person and someone who is magically imbued.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that way
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's a clear distinction between normal and extraordinarily
>>>>>>>>>>>>> athletic
>>>>>>>>>>>>> characters... i personally think adding another tier between the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> two is ok
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but it creates another segment to design places for and i am not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure having
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2 better than normal tiers is good bang for the buck... maybe some
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hypothetical examples would help clear up the issue?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like Eric's system but I feel like there should be more than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5 tiers. I was writing out a big counter point but in the end I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> convinced
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself that I like this method best. I think there should be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tier between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 and 5. A tier where the player is better than most but not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> magically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> imbued.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the lax attitude of letting the player go where they want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we can design difficult to access dungeons to require a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reoccurring use of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever skill is needed. For example if you need level 5 jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to access a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secret dungeon then the secret dungeon should have parts in it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that require
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the level 5 jump. That way if a player does get in there they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will not be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to finish it. If they somehow find a way to exploit the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system we could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reward them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't see any major problems with having multiple jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> levels.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 8:21 AM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jumping is a stat based on quickness, facets, skills,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor, injuries, and special scenario items/boosts/uses. As
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the player went
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> along in the game, increased their stats, got facets, etc;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their ability to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump would increase marginally rather than "look I suddenly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump higher".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An analog system would allow for extreme versatility without
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> measure out specific jump levels. Getting injuries could slow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you down in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minor/major degrees, rather than "will this injury drop me down
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level?" same goes for armor."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the problem with this is... there's no clear tier for us to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> design for, which means we're aiming at a moving target and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's no clear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "minimum" to design for, etc. All the problems chris brought
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> magnified 10x when there's no tier system. I actually picked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the tier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system as a bridge between 1 jump level and a purely analogue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons i mentioned above.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like to mix things up a little, but try to keep an open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind here!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No levels of jumping! That's right, none. You can jump,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jumping is a stat based on quickness, facets, skills, armor,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> injuries, and special scenario items/boosts/uses. As the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player went along
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the game, increased their stats, got facets, etc; their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability to jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would increase marginally rather than "look I suddenly jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher". An
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> analog system would allow for extreme versatility without
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having to measure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out specific jump levels. Getting injuries could slow you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minor/major degrees, rather than "will this injury drop me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down a jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level?" same goes for armor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Re: Redux. Yeah, back in Gemstone3 I was a master of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system and for my level was point-by-point the toughest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> warrior in the game.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gemstone4 changed the system and it became to fuzzy to learn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (nobody would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> release the exact system either), and I wasn't about to test
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> warriors from 0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to 30 for another year to try and figure it out. :\
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 8:27 AM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i want to explicitely thank chris, alan and katie for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offering the counter points to my original thought, i really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alternate perspectives of things will allow us to fully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explore elements of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game design like this and that it will ultimately deliver a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better, more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intuitive and most importantly more FUN gaming experience. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do not mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> debating the points as I have done below because frankly, if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I cannot defend
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game design philosophy then the system we're discussing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is probably
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> broken and i need to work on it some more. besides that, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my experience in designing the combat with nick that when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> debating ideas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like this it occasionally inspires great new ideas. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually consider
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this to be a vital part of "pre-testing" so please, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> encourage you to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue offering your insights and perspectives!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To give you a specific example, your idea about armor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slower and jump shorter will generally make players avoid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any instance they can. In action based games, skilled
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go towards what is as fast and damaging as possible, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will avoid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things like that on purpose.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - this is by design, we want to encourage people who are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exploring to use lighter armor, it makes no sense to go on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> journey into a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mysterious temple that is bound to have traps, puzzles, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in full plate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor. We want that style of armor to be reserved for people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who accept the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> penalty of speed/jumping for the enhanced ability to take
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hits without
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting damage. this is a player choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, having injuries slow you down will make players feel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't be damaged. For things like this you want to flip
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the tables,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and instead create armor that gives players more speed, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they take
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more damage. It might seem like a small thing, but in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eyes of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player it can make a huge difference in gameplay.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - also by design. We want players to feel like there are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concequences to being injured and it should be avoided as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much as possible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are penalties for being injured or dying - that is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> major part of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combat design here. We are trying to break away from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> healing/ressurection that has been the common thread in most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rpgs. we're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to get away from the attrition system. more info on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this below
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically ask yourself if you would play the game and have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fun doing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the things you imagine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - one of my favorite gaming experiences is america's army,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and what makes it so great and so immersive is that you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constantly in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fear of your life so there is actual tension on the battle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field, its not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like tf2 where you run out, spam attacks and if you get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> killed, oh well,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> respawn. I love the idea of players figuring out the best
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strategies to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stay alive and learning tactics and skills to do it. yes, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a challenge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - but that is what makes it so great! Another game I love, as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan pointed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out, is gemstone. Gemstone was ruthless with one shot kills,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leg chopped off and not being able to climb stuff, etc. like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's areas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the game you have to take your armor off and be athletic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough to jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in order to make it over there. staying alive is a major
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> part of that game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and everytime you got hit, you would bleed and feel the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effects of it. as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player you had to learn to adapt your skills and player style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to prevent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself from getting damaged as much as possible. this is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> key element to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game design we are trying to go with. so to answer your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question - yes,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i think it'd be fun :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay guys, this is just my opinion. =) For me when I play
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arcade-ish style games like I the ones I think (if I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand correctly)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we are trying to make, I think Chris has got a really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good point. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to take the easiest route possible to get to the next
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> step. Not that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should flake on stuff. But we should make sure to not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scrutinize/overthink
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things too much if that makes sense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - this is an rpg, not an arcade game! :P the emphasis is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on exploration, not just going as quickly as you can to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the next
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level (although you can if you so choose). what makes rpg's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (and adventure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games) fun for me is finding all the little secrets that are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden all over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the world. also, everyone is acting like 5 settings is so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complex, really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the first one is only for special case scenarios and isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meant to be used
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> during actual gameplay, and the 5th one is really only to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve as a special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing for use like spells, flying, etc. there are only 3 main
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ones, a weak
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump for heavily armored players, a normal one for most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people, and a long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump for people who choose to sacrifice armor for speed and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manueverability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd bet this jump level thing would more or less be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> invisible / automatic to the player. Like when you were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heavier you just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dont jump as high or as far. The player might not know there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are 5 levels
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of jumping ability, they might just realize "hey when i take
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off my armor i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can make that jump to that cave i couldnt get to before" (and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe an NPC tips you off to that fact). Or there are boots
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> description of "wear to be able to jump higher"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -right, this is all an under the hood system. its funny
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because when i write stories, etc. i try to keep things as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> close to the vest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because i like the reader to be surprised, i like keeping a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mystery and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something for them to discover for themselves. this is also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true in my game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> design philosophy, give players a ton of neat stuff they can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themselves if they want to... the irony is, as a team we're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ALL under the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hood so i have to express all the hidden things to you guys
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so it can get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made/discussed, but then everyone is like "oh that is overly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complicated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's no reason for that!" without putting themselves in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the shoes of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player who doesn't even know the system exists and that its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just there for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to discover if they are curious and interested.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5 different jumps will matter only as much as we design the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to matter. In Diablo 2, the barb jump skill only let
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cross
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certain terrain that wasn't walkable, so having so many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lengths was easily solved - just make the pits larger. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we can find
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an easy solution in our game - an equivalent to "just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making the pits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> larger" - then we can add as many jumps as we want, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even make them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scale into flying!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently learned how to do the shinespark tricks in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Metroid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Redesign, and if we could make our jumps in the game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> require a skill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> curve somehow, that would reward the player for the ability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher... almost like how in 3d Mario games, you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump right as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you hit the ground again, within a certain amount of time,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so you can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do the triple jump.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -i actually view it as a really simple system that allows
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a lot of neat versatility in game design and player
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strategy...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something that allows for more skill based movement if people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are interested
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because i know some crazy people (like nick) enjoy finding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crazy challenges
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and trying to exploit gameplay tools to get into areas, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i think that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is fun and great and should be part of our design. i picked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5 as the number
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so there would be differences between teh playing styles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while keeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things we needed to design/test for to the minimum.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> okay so lets get down to brass tacks here (how much for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> monkey?) (3 adunai points to whoever gets the reference)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO we have 2 options:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) 2 jump system - 1 for armor too heavy for you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (basically, non-jumping) and 1 for normal.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pros: easier to design for, easier to test for, no need to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think about armor choices for the player beyond "is it too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heavy?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cons: less versatile, no differences between wearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> light/heavy/medium armor for adventurers, no hidden areas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only accessible by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people who invest and discover ways to jump farther.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) 5 jump system - as illustrated above
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pros: more for the player to discover, another "tool" in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our tool box, gives extra strengths/weaknesses when picking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> character style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cons: harder to design/test, may baffle some characters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now obviously i am biased towards B (the 5 jump system) so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my pitch for it is, it'll be simpler in practice for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player/designer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than it may seem to you right now, it's important for game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heavy/light armor, players can really just make sure they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at level 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (normal) and they will be able to get through the entire game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worrying about the difference in jump so i think there is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> zero bafflement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chance, and it gives us another neat tool for desiging
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exploration and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden stuff in the game.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am definitely open-minded and can be convinced to go with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A) - so lets open it up to the forum and take a little poll
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and if you want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to post comments/thoughts/ideas - then it'll give us more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make a good and intelligent decision.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 7:55 AM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i didnt have time to read everythign yet but basically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here is my take...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 1 is basically a "your character is broken level"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and doesnt need to be designed for, its basically a penalty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing we can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use. it is the extreme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 2 is needed to differentiate heavy armor from light
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 3 is what we will design for, it is "normal"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 4 is to sepparate quick characters with ultra light
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor from people wearing normal armor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 5 is a special case scenario type of thing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're basically just designing the game for level 3, with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe a small amount of special case scenario areas for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 4/5 (like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under 2-3 per chapter)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i really don't think that it is overly complicated at all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and this will be a SUBTLE thing, i.e. again, most of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things like this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are only designed for people who want the bonus, but dont
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to have it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 3:01 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yeah actually thats a good point, i remember playin zelda
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and you see objects which are obviously repeated (ie black
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rocks in link to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the past, or the docks in zelda 1 etc) and knowing "there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is something up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with those" but you dont know til you have the item. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forgot about that,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that was kinda fun gameplay :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Chris Riccobono <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crysalim@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that's part of the fun of Zelda and Metroid style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games... getting those items that make you able to do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things you didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> predict were possible, so then the player wonders what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cool thing is gonna
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come out next :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's a pretty cool idea for introducing game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanics.. the player doesn't know about them at all in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game until they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually get the item for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yeah totally i agree with you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we were talkin about this before, we were saying having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots of optional things to discover in a game makes it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem bigger because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we don't advertise what the "edges" are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so yeah totally, if we advertise there are 5 jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> levels it ruins the magic, but if the player discovers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "wtf i jump higher
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now?" they might try to see just how high they can jump.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe they get to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 4 and never cap out at level 5, as far as they know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the sky is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limit even though they are almost at the cieling hehe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Chris Riccobono <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crysalim@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, about the player not knowing there will be 5
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump levels, that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would trigger the "yay I discovered something"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emotion. It's really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fun to learn how to do something to reach new places,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you know?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Chris Riccobono<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crysalim@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > I do believe simplicity brings about the most fun
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when done correctly!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > I think part of the fun of a game is learning how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to use the system,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > too, so when you can learn it very easy at first,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are open to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > learning new mechanics as things go on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Alan Wolfe<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> You deffinately have a good point. Our game isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arcadey per se but it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> a game where you can go deeper if you want but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't have to.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Like there will be lots to explore but it's all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> optional (Eric correct me if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> im wrong lol).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> I'd bet this jump level thing would more or less be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> invisible / automatic to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the player. Like when you were heavier you just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dont jump as high or as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> far. The player might not know there are 5 levels
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of jumping ability, they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> might just realize "hey when i take off my armor i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can make that jump to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> that cave i couldnt get to before" (and of course
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe an NPC tips you off
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to that fact). Or there are boots that have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> description of "wear to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> able to jump higher"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> But yeah there is deffinate wisdom to keeping it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simple, especially keeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the end result the player sees simple.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Someone should be able to pick up the game and be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to play without
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> having to read some huge manual :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the old saying "easy to learn difficult to master"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yadda yadda
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:13 PM, katie cook <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Okay guys, this is just my opinion. =) For me when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I play arcade-ish style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> games like I the ones I think (if I understand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correctly) that we are trying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to make, I think Chris has got a really good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point. I like to take the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> easiest route possible to get to the next step.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not that we should flake on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> stuff. But we should make sure to not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scrutinize/overthink things too much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> if that makes sense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> I like the opportunity to get a little bit deeper
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a game if I choose
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to at the time, but appreciate when I don't have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to. Usually arcades games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> tend to be shorter in hours played. When I play a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> short game, I don't wanna
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> have to invest a lot of time and deal with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> frivilous features. The easier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the game the funner it is for me (for arcade/short
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games. I hope this makes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> sense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Chris Riccobono <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crysalim@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> From: Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 270
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:46 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> 5 different jump levels is going to complicate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things a bit more than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> we want. Try to keep in mind that the ideal is to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make the game more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> fun. Ask yourself, will 5 different jumps enhance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game enough to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> warrant the amount of coding, designing, and bug
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> testing they will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> require?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To reiterate what I tried to stress early on, we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want the game to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> as fun as possible, as simply as possible. Having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a complex game is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> great if it enhances the experience, but if it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't, it becomes a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> hinderance - just another game, in other words.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To give you a specific example, your idea about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor making you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> slower and jump shorter will generally make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players avoid doing that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> in any instance they can. In action based games,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skilled players will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> go towards what is as fast and damaging as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible, and will avoid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> things like that on purpose.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Also, having injuries slow you down will make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players feel like they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> can't be damaged. For things like this you want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to flip the tables,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> and instead create armor that gives players more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speed, but they take
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> more damage. It might seem like a small thing,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but in the eyes of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> player it can make a huge difference in gameplay.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Basically ask yourself if you would play the game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and have fun doing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the things you imagine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Alan Wolfe<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > you know the kind of cool thing about this too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > we could actually make situations that you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't escape from, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > things like pits that when you fall into them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you die instantly and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > return
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > to the void.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > those are really mean (literally!) features but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if we use them sparingly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > in some kind of "i told you not to look in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> box" situations that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > actually pretty funny.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > im not sure if you are down with it, but it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would bring a feeling of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > mortality :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > ps i'll add the previous ideas to the wiki once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i get home if no one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > else
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > has by then. I dont mind but just can't right
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:44 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> yes - harsh but like i said, its an emergency
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only option to be as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> last
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> resort... i think any other way of doing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will allow too many holes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> exploits (such as exp or item farming, etc)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> so would you lose all exp, gold and items
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gained then?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:41 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> yeah i think that is what we';ll do, you can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recall to the void at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> time but it effectively just restores a saved
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game so you gain no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> benefit to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> it. We'll make this sort of a last ditch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> option, so we'll try to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> design it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> so people never have to use it under normal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> circumstances
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> no, im just here to poke holes in your ideas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <g>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> jk but no im not sure... other than perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the player can return to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> the void at any time, and the cost is that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you've lost all the time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> you've
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> taken to progress to where you are (ie you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to walk back)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:38 PM, eric drewes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> wait i take that back, i'll have to think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a real solution. any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> ideas?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> ok
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> is recall always going to be available?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:35 PM, eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> recall
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Alan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> ok sounds good. the lax attitude and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not needing perfection
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> make it alot easier to test and build.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We'll just have to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> sure and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> keep that in mind when designing things.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> actually i think we will probably still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to do a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> testing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> with the various jumps to make sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people can't get somewhere
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> they arent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> meant to be that they cant get out of -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ie i can enter this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 3 jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> area but i can't escape.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> what's your thoughts on that situation?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:29 PM, eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> well 2 things...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> 1 - i am comfortable with the testing,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i think it'll add a lot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> the game - what do you guys think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> 2 - alan i would really say we'd only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to test for 2 things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> the ability for level 2 to get past
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> areas that have no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> non-jumping route
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> through and to make sure tier 5 people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't exploit anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> we don't want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> them too... i would say if a tier 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person can find a way to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> get over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> something designed as a secret for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 4 people, then that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> ok w/ me,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> and likewise with level 4 getting to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 5 areas. if they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> can find a way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> to overcome the handicap, i dont want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to stop them :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Alan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> and of course another option is we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just design it where fine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> tuned details like that aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> like if you can jump it instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having to get a rope and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> climb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> up, who cares!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> but shrug just wanted to point out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this aspect of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> solution!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Alan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I like the idea. It deffinately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes thigns more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> exploration
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> based since we could put places that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you can't get to while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> starting out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This isn't a deal breaker but i want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to point out this will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> increase testing and designing time:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * all maps will have to be played
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the highest jump level
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> make sure they cant exploit anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they shouldn't be able
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * all maps will have to played with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the lowest jump level to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> make sure the minimum we want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passable is passable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * for maps which have a specific jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> requirement areas (ie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> level 3 lets you get to this area)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll have to play with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> that level as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> well as the next level down to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure the one below can't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> get up too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:11 PM, eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drewes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> what do you guys think of that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scale? that way we dont have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> guess when we design and we have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> baseline standard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:58 PM,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eric drewes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a voice spoke from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mountain tops, "and let it be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoken, there shall be 5 different
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tiers of jumping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability, one for hardly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any jump at all, the next for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between the current jump and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> levels not-really-a-jump, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> third is what is there now,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the fourth for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump equal to 1.5x as high/far as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 3rd and a fifth that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is triple the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normal jump - this will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reserved for special facet,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> item boosts or a max
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100 quickness bonus.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically it is like this:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 1) barely a jump at all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this will be for incredibly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fat characters (w/ the fat facet)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people with super heavy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor that they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't strong enough to wear,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incredibly injured people,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people with snake
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> torsos, etc :-P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 2) this is what people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wearing plate/heavy chain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or have relatively strong long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> injuries, etc. etc. will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 3) most characters will have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this jump, traps, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be designed with this as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the minimum - though
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically we want it to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a challenge for level 3 people.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some areas can be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed so it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inaccessible without level 4
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though, but nothing vital to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passing the map -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also, traps/jump areas that aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible except
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through jumping should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use level 2 as a minimum.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 4) super athletic character
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with light or no armor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have this, they can reach special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> areas the other 3 levels
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't, jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> puzzles should be easier for level
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 5) these characters are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> magically imbued or have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> super
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> humanly agility, maybe they have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little wings, etc. by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passable traps, areas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that can only be reached via long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distance travel, etc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these characters have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a big advantage on all jumping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:29 PM,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man, that sounds awful. At least
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we have learned these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lessons and now know how to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> btw line rider had the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issues tee hee
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In line rider, people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were exploiting a simple physics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation to do tricks like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gravity wells and nose
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grinds and other stuff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we made the commercial
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version of the game we had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure all the tricks were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still possible and we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brought in tech dawg to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play it and make sure everything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was still kosher.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the parts that sucked - whenever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we optomized something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game it would break all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existing test maps we had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made so we had to wait
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> til the very end of the game to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make the puzzle maps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also, since the DS, Wii and PC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all have different
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point math chips in them (and ds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had diff code), maps
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't work the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on all the different platforms
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we had to keep sharing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be on the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform it was created on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:50 PM,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its ok man ::shakes you:: the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wars over, nixon is outa
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:48
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Kent is having megaman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flashbacks*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:47
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indeed! I'm going to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-iterate what you said Kent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so people understand the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> importance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should figure out how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high / far we want the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be able to jump and how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strong gravity should be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muey importante~!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once we decide we can't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change without having to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rebuild
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and rebalance any existing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physics dependant maps (ie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skill jumps, gaps that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the player should or should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not be able to jump over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc) which is a total
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pain and could really be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really really destructive to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our game having to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rebuild and rebalance a whole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bunch of crap later.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, lookin at you Eric, we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should talk about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finalizing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specifically you for sure want the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player to be able to do? IE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump across a certain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distance, jump over a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certain hight object etc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:31
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What did you want to do for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the first trap? I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> imagined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that there would be 5 or so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different looking tiles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then there would be one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct kind of tile (not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the diamond). Then the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player would have to jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about through the tiles to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the correct ones. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figured it would work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similarly to the ones that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were on kenttest.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's your thoughts on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before you get to into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designing the temple I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highly suggest that we nail
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down player control and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jumping physics. Let me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> warn you from experience, if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we change how any of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that works your temple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become obsolete.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:25
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Been really busy today and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will probably be busy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> next couple days. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggest leaving the trap
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> areas open for now. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are willing to push on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway and have specific
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions, send em my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way and I will be happy to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help out when I get a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2:23 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man that's awesome
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2:16 PM, Apache User
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dhapache@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> User:rorac
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message: Expanded a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little on templemap, added
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> template code as per
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kent's advisement.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Need a sign (next room is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> diamond path). Kent, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will need your help to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help build that part and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> begin putting traps in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hallway (first right =
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first trap area).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Files Changed>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scripts/Maps/templemap.lua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scripts/Maps/templemap_geometry.lua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> ;>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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