[project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270

  • From: figarus@xxxxxxxxx
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 02:47:03 +0000

Good lookin out man, thanks! Should come in handy ;)
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:44:53 
To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270


lol i gots it 4 you eric:

http://xkcd.com/526/

On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 7:42 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hey katie, did you read the messages re: model sizes? If not, basically
> moving forward we're gonna go with the scale of 10 units in 3d = 1 meter,
> just so it takes out some of the guess work as far as scale/size etc :) I
> think this applies more to objects like walls and floors than the stuff
> you've been working on and this is a new thing we decided on so don't worry
> if you haven't been building for it - I don't really think it'll negativ ely
> affect you, jusy something to keep in mind when building.
>
> There's a decent xkcd that gives a scale for metric for americans haha if
> you want a reference. I'm heading to a bar and on my bb otherewise I'd paste
> it :P
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> ------------------------------
> *From*: katie cook
> *Date*: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:20:29 -0700 (PDT)
> *To*: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> *Subject*: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
>
>    I wouldn't call it putting up with. I would say lucky enough to tag
> along. Thanks Guys! I feel very fortunate to be working on a team of really
> awesome guys. =)
>
> --- On *Fri, 6/26/09, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
> To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 7:05 PM
>
>  Katie, we are EXTREMELY lucky to have you here (:
>
> thank you for putting up with us haha
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 6:52 PM, katie cook 
> <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
>
>>   Yeah, we artist sometimes let things get the best of us and our egos
>> get in the way.
>>
>> For me its just about making people happy. Whatever it takes to accomplish
>> that is what I will do. =0
>>
>> --- On *Fri, 6/26/09, Alan Wolfe 
>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Alan Wolfe 
>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
>> To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 6:36 PM
>>
>>  Design always seems to be pretty haeted from what i've seen workin at
>> the companies ive been at.
>>
>> the reason why is because in programming you can benchmark things, see
>> what runs faster and uses less memory.
>>
>> In art, i think you can quantify things a little bit, but way less than
>> programming.
>>
>> in design - there is no way to quantify most things other than just having
>> people play it but its really hard to isolate single ideas for play
>> testing.  So, if people let it get personal it gets bad lol.
>>
>> Luckily everybody here is pretty cool and hopefully nobody will take
>> anything personally (:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 6:28 PM, katie cook 
>> <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>   drama anyone? =0
>>>
>>> --- On *Fri, 6/26/09, eric drewes 
>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >
>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
>>> To: 
>>> project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 5:07 AM
>>>
>>> basically i view this entire argument as such:
>>> i show you a puzzle piece for a massive puzzle i am working on and you
>>> tell me that the shape of the edges aren't aethestically pleasing to you and
>>> they need to be changed. :P
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 7:49 AM, eric drewes 
>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I understand your point - i just disagree with it :P It will be used, it
>>>> will be fun, nothing will be half done or incomplete.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 7:00 AM, Chris Riccobono 
>>>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You really seem to be missing my point though Eric.  If we focus more
>>>>> on things that will get used, we can make those more fun, instead of
>>>>> adding things that either are half done or incomplete.
>>>>>
>>>>> Basically, the way you think that it should be in just in case 1
>>>>> person uses it, I think it shouldn't be because only one person will
>>>>> use it.
>>>>>
>>>>> But lets just put it aside for now, I don't want to ruffle any more
>>>>> feathers here :P
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 6:46 AM, eric 
>>>>> drewes<figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > basically it seems to me that everyone's argument is "but I want to
>>>>> be able
>>>>> > to jump far!" because we're just looking only at the jumping issue.
>>>>> > Overall, the game will be balanced to make heavy armor desirable for
>>>>> some
>>>>> > circumstances, and some people may be willing to sacrifice being able
>>>>> to
>>>>> > jump stuff to get that extra protection.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I really think you guys aren't looking at the overall picture.  this
>>>>> isn't a
>>>>> > jumping game.  being able to jump far is not a requirement for
>>>>> beating the
>>>>> > game.  heavy armor will have advantages in other systems to offset
>>>>> not being
>>>>> > able to jump as far.  just because YOU currently do not think you
>>>>> would use
>>>>> > heavy armor doesn't mean we should eliminate it for the people who
>>>>> may be
>>>>> > interested in using it all the time or in certain circumstances.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 9:42 AM, eric drewes 
>>>>> > <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> well heavy armor isn't just for the hero and no one is forced to use
>>>>> it
>>>>> >> for the main character, i don't want to just eliminate it because we
>>>>> wouldnt
>>>>> >> want to use it.  I think its best to give the players the option to
>>>>> decide
>>>>> >> how they want to play without us dictating how we think their
>>>>> character
>>>>> >> should be - the design is meant to lead people into making their own
>>>>> >> decisions about what they want to do.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:40 AM, Chris Riccobono <
>>>>> crysalim@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> After reading the rest of the thread:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Nick's point about taking off heavy armor is a very good one.
>>>>>  Sure,
>>>>> >>> we can leave that in and let people do that, but we could also
>>>>> leave
>>>>> >>> that out and dedicate more time to other stuff that players will
>>>>> end
>>>>> >>> up using.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> If we can figure out what players will like to use and what they
>>>>> >>> won't, we're going to have that much better of a game!
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:13 AM, eric 
>>>>> >>> drewes<figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> > cool, i think it is a good compromise :) also, i understand your
>>>>> >>> > concern w/
>>>>> >>> > wanting an additional tier but maybe we can play with the jump
>>>>> >>> > distances for
>>>>> >>> > traps and solve it that way.
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > in retrospect and upon further review i think that the super jump
>>>>> would
>>>>> >>> > be
>>>>> >>> > better at least 2x to create a distinct separation from normal
>>>>> jumping.
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> >>> > wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> I like Eric's system. it is a hybrid of what everyone wants.
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:37 AM, eric drewes <
>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> >>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>>> >>> >>> as do all men (and some women)
>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> >>> >>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>> I wish women felt the same about relationships.
>>>>> >>> >>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:30 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> >>> >>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>> i guess a better way to say it is, i am all about value and
>>>>> bang
>>>>> >>> >>>>> for
>>>>> >>> >>>>> the buck.  i am for making things complex and intricate - as
>>>>> long
>>>>> >>> >>>>> as adding
>>>>> >>> >>>>> that complexity provides more depth and fun.  if its just
>>>>> complex
>>>>> >>> >>>>> for the
>>>>> >>> >>>>> sake of making things more complex, i just dont see the
>>>>> point...
>>>>> >>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>> "we should make it as simple as possible and i am for
>>>>> simplicity
>>>>> >>> >>>>>> for
>>>>> >>> >>>>>> the record"
>>>>> >>> >>>>>> You guys have no idea how true this is.  You wouldn't
>>>>> believe the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>> ideas and systems I had to rethink when coming up with a
>>>>> basic
>>>>> >>> >>>>>> combat
>>>>> >>> >>>>>> design.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:21 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> no problem :P hehe... yeah if it was an arcade game i would
>>>>> be in
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> total agreement that we should make it as simple as
>>>>> possible and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> i am for
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> simplicity for the record - as long as its not at the cost
>>>>> of
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> versatility
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:15 PM, katie cook <
>>>>> ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> My bad E =P I have had no idea really how far/deep you
>>>>> guys were
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> wanting to go (hence me saying I wasn't for sure. I though
>>>>> I
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> caught a while
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> back you guys mentioning launch on XBLA and I just got
>>>>> arcade in
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> my head.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the clarification E.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> With my new understanding of the game =), I am on board
>>>>> with all
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> previously mentioned scenarious on abilities for
>>>>> jumping/armor,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> etc. Not
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> that I wasn't before, I was just slightly concerned about
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> overthinking
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> simplistics.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 6/24/09, eric drewes 
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> From: eric drewes 
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> To: 
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 6:27 AM
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> i want to explicitely thank chris, alan and katie for
>>>>> offering
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> counter points to my original thought, i really think
>>>>> having
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> alternate
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> perspectives of things will allow us to fully explore
>>>>> elements
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> of game
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> design like this and that it will ultimately deliver a
>>>>> better,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> more
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> intuitive and most importantly more FUN gaming
>>>>> experience.  I do
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> not mind
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> debating the points as I have done below because frankly,
>>>>> if I
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> cannot defend
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the game design philosophy then the system we're
>>>>> discussing is
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> probably
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> broken and i need to work on it some more.  besides that,
>>>>> it has
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> been
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> my experience in designing the combat with nick that when
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> debating ideas
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> like this it occasionally inspires great new ideas.  I
>>>>> actually
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> consider
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> this to be a vital part of "pre-testing" so please, I
>>>>> encourage
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> you to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> continue offering your insights and perspectives!
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> To give you a specific example, your idea about armor
>>>>> making you
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> slower and jump shorter will generally make players avoid
>>>>> doing
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> that
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> in any instance they can.  In action based games, skilled
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> players
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> will
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> go towards what is as fast and damaging as possible, and
>>>>> will
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> avoid
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> things like that on purpose.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> - this is by design, we want to encourage people who are
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> exploring
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> to use lighter armor, it makes no sense to go on a journey
>>>>> into
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> a mysterious
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> temple that is bound to have traps, puzzles, etc. in full
>>>>> plate
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> armor.  We
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> want that style of armor to be reserved for people who
>>>>> accept
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the penalty of
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> speed/jumping for the enhanced ability to take hits
>>>>> without
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> getting damage.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> this is a player choice.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Also, having injuries slow you down will make players feel
>>>>> like
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> they
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> can't be damaged.  For things like this you want to flip
>>>>> the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> tables,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> and instead create armor that gives players more speed,
>>>>> but they
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> take
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> more damage.  It might seem like a small thing, but in the
>>>>> eyes
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> of a
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> player it can make a huge difference in gameplay.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> - also by design. We want players to feel like there are
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> concequences to being injured and it should be avoided as
>>>>> much
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> as possible.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> There are penalties for being injured or dying - that is a
>>>>> major
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> part of the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> combat design here.  We are trying to break away from the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> constant
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> healing/ressurection that has been the common thread in
>>>>> most
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> rpgs.  we're
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> trying to get away from the attrition system. more info on
>>>>> this
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> below
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Basically ask yourself if you would play the game and have
>>>>> fun
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> doing
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the things you imagine.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> - one of my favorite gaming experiences is america's army,
>>>>> and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> what
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> makes it so great and so immersive is that you are
>>>>> constantly in
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> fear of
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> your life so there is actual tension on the battle field,
>>>>> its
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> not like tf2
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> where you run out, spam attacks and if you get killed, oh
>>>>> well,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> respawn.  I
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> love the idea of players figuring out the best strategies
>>>>> to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> stay alive and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> learning tactics and skills to do it. yes, it is a
>>>>> challenge -
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> but that is
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> what makes it so great! Another game I love, as alan
>>>>> pointed
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> out, is
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> gemstone.  Gemstone was ruthless with one shot kills,
>>>>> getting
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> your leg
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> chopped off and not being able to climb stuff, etc.  like
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> there's areas in
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the game you have to take your armor off and be athletic
>>>>> enough
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> to jump in
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> order to make it over there.  staying alive is a major
>>>>> part of
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> that game and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> everytime you got hit, you would bleed and feel the
>>>>> effects of
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> it.  as a
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> player you had to learn to adapt your skills and player
>>>>> style to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> prevent
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> yourself from getting damaged as much as possible.  this
>>>>> is a
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> key element to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the game design we are trying to go with.  so to answer
>>>>> your
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> question - yes,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> i think it'd be fun :P
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Okay guys, this is just my opinion. =) For me when I play
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> arcade-ish
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> style games like I the ones I think (if I understand
>>>>> correctly)
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> that we are
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> trying to make, I think Chris has got a really good point.
>>>>> I
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> like to take
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the easiest route possible to get to the next step. Not
>>>>> that we
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> should flake
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> on stuff. But we should make sure to not
>>>>> scrutinize/overthink
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> things too
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> much if that makes sense.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> - this is an rpg, not an arcade game! :P  the emphasis is
>>>>> on
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> exploration, not just going as quickly as you can to get
>>>>> to the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> next level
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> (although you can if you so choose).  what makes rpg's
>>>>> (and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> adventure games)
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> fun for me is finding all the little secrets that are
>>>>> hidden all
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> over the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> world.  also, everyone is acting like 5 settings is so
>>>>> complex,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> really the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> first one is only for special case scenarios and isn't
>>>>> meant to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> be used
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> during actual gameplay, and the 5th one is really only to
>>>>> serve
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> as a special
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> thing for use like spells, flying, etc. there are only 3
>>>>> main
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> ones, a weak
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump for heavily armored players, a normal one for most
>>>>> people,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> and a long
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump for people who choose to sacrifice armor for speed
>>>>> and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> manueverability
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> I'd bet this jump level thing would more or less be
>>>>> invisible /
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> automatic to the player.  Like when you were heavier you
>>>>> just
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> dont jump as
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> high or as far.  The player might not know there are 5
>>>>> levels of
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> jumping
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> ability, they might just realize "hey when i take off my
>>>>> armor i
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> can make
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> that jump to that cave i couldnt get to before" (and of
>>>>> course
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> maybe an NPC
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> tips you off to that fact).  Or there are boots that have
>>>>> the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> description of
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> "wear to be able to jump higher"
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> -right, this is all an under the hood system.  its funny
>>>>> because
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> when i write stories, etc. i try to keep things as close
>>>>> to the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> vest because
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> i like the reader to be surprised, i like keeping a
>>>>> mystery and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> something
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> for them to discover for themselves.  this is also true in
>>>>> my
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> game design
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> philosophy, give players a ton of neat stuff they can find
>>>>> out
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> for
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> themselves if they want to... the irony is, as a team
>>>>> we're ALL
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> under the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> hood so i have to express all the hidden things to you
>>>>> guys so
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> it can get
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> made/discussed, but then everyone is like "oh that is
>>>>> overly
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> complicated
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> there's no reason for that!" without putting themselves in
>>>>> the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> shoes of the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> player who doesn't even know the system exists and that
>>>>> its just
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> there for
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> them to discover if they are curious and interested.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> 5 different jumps will matter only as much as we design
>>>>> the game
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> for
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> them to matter.  In Diablo 2, the barb jump skill only let
>>>>> you
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> cross
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> certain terrain that wasn't walkable, so having so many
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> different
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> lengths was easily solved - just make the pits larger.  If
>>>>> we
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> can
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> find
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> an easy solution in our game - an equivalent to "just
>>>>> making the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> pits
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> larger" - then we can add as many jumps as we want, and
>>>>> even
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> make
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> them
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> scale into flying!
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> I recently learned how to do the shinespark tricks in
>>>>> Metroid
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Redesign, and if we could make our jumps in the game
>>>>> require a
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> skill
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> curve somehow, that would reward the player for the
>>>>> ability to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> higher... almost like how in 3d Mario games, you have to
>>>>> jump
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> right
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> as
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> you hit the ground again, within a certain amount of time,
>>>>> so
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> you
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> can
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> do the triple jump.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> -i actually view it as a really simple system that allows
>>>>> for a
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> lot
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> of neat versatility in game design and player strategy...
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> something that
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> allows for more skill based movement if people are
>>>>> interested
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> because i know
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> some crazy people (like nick) enjoy finding crazy
>>>>> challenges and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> trying to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> exploit gameplay tools to get into areas, etc.  i think
>>>>> that is
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> fun and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> great and should be part of our design.  i picked 5 as the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> number so there
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> would be differences between teh playing styles while
>>>>> keeping
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> things we
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> needed to design/test for to the minimum.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> okay so lets get down to brass tacks here (how much for
>>>>> the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> monkey?)
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> (3 adunai points to whoever gets the reference)
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> IMO we have 2 options:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> a) 2 jump system - 1 for armor too heavy for you
>>>>> (basically,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> non-jumping) and 1 for normal.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> pros: easier to design for, easier to test for, no need to
>>>>> think
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> about armor choices for the player beyond "is it too
>>>>> heavy?"
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> cons: less versatile, no differences between wearing
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> light/heavy/medium armor for adventurers, no hidden areas
>>>>> only
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> accessible by
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> people who invest and discover ways to jump farther.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> b) 5 jump system - as illustrated above
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> pros: more for the player to discover, another "tool" in
>>>>> our
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> tool
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> box, gives extra strengths/weaknesses when picking armor
>>>>> and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> character style
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> cons: harder to design/test, may baffle some characters.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> now obviously i am biased towards B (the 5 jump system) so
>>>>> my
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> pitch
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> for it is, it'll be simpler in practice for the
>>>>> player/designer
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> than it may
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> seem to you right now, it's important for game balance
>>>>> between
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> heavy/light
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> armor, players can really just make sure they are at level
>>>>> 3
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> (normal) and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> they will be able to get through the entire game without
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> worrying about the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> difference in jump so i think there is zero bafflement
>>>>> chance,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> and it gives
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> us another neat tool for desiging exploration and hidden
>>>>> stuff
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> in the game.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> I am definitely open-minded and can be convinced to go
>>>>> with A) -
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> so
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> lets open it up to the forum and take a little poll and if
>>>>> you
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> want to post
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> comments/thoughts/ideas - then it'll give us more
>>>>> information to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> make a good
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> and intelligent decision.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> :)
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 7:55 AM, eric drewes <
>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> i didnt have time to read everythign yet but basically
>>>>> here is
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> my
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> take...
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 1 is basically a "your character is broken level"
>>>>> and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> doesnt
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> need to be designed for, its basically a penalty thing we
>>>>> can
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> use.  it is
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> the extreme
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 2 is needed to differentiate heavy armor from light
>>>>> armor
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 3 is what we will design for, it is "normal"
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 4 is to sepparate quick characters with ultra light
>>>>> armor
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> from people wearing normal armor
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 5 is a special case scenario type of thing
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> we're basically just designing the game for level 3, with
>>>>> maybe
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> a
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> small amount of special case scenario areas for level 4/5
>>>>> (like
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> under 2-3
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> per chapter)
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> i really don't think that it is overly complicated at all
>>>>> and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> this
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> will be a SUBTLE thing, i.e. again, most of the things
>>>>> like
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> this are only
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> designed for people who want the bonus, but dont have to
>>>>> have
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> it
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 3:01 AM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> yeah actually thats a good point, i remember playin
>>>>> zelda and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> see objects which are obviously repeated (ie black rocks
>>>>> in
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> link to the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> past, or the docks in zelda 1 etc) and knowing "there is
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> something up with
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> those" but you dont know til you have the item.  I
>>>>> forgot
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> about that, that
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> was kinda fun gameplay :P
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Chris Riccobono
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that's part of the fun of Zelda and Metroid style
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> games...
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> getting those items that make you able to do things you
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> didn't predict were
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> possible, so then the player wonders what cool thing is
>>>>> gonna
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> come out next
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> That's a pretty cool idea for introducing game
>>>>> mechanics..
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> player doesn't know about them at all in the game until
>>>>> they
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> actually get
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> the item for it.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> yeah totally i agree with you.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> we were talkin about this before, we were saying
>>>>> having lots
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> optional things to discover in a game makes it seem
>>>>> bigger
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> because we don't
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> advertise what the "edges" are.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> so yeah totally, if we advertise there are 5 jump
>>>>> levels it
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ruins the magic, but if the player discovers "wtf i
>>>>> jump
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> higher now?" they
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> might try to see just how high they can jump.  Maybe
>>>>> they
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> get to level 4 and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> never cap out at level 5, as far as they know the sky
>>>>> is the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> limit even
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> though they are almost at the cieling hehe.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Chris Riccobono
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, about the player not knowing there will be 5
>>>>> jump
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> levels,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> would trigger the "yay I discovered something"
>>>>> emotion.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>  It's
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> fun to learn how to do something to reach new places,
>>>>> you
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> know?
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Chris
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Riccobono<crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > I do believe simplicity brings about the most fun
>>>>> when
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > done
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > correctly!
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >  I think part of the fun of a game is learning how
>>>>> to use
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > system,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > too, so when you can learn it very easy at first,
>>>>> you are
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > open to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > learning new mechanics as things go on.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Alan
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Wolfe<alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> You deffinately have a good point.  Our game isn't
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> arcadey
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> per se but it is
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> a game where you can go deeper if you want but
>>>>> don't
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> have
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Like there will be lots to explore but it's all
>>>>> optional
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> (Eric correct me if
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> im wrong lol).
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> I'd bet this jump level thing would more or less
>>>>> be
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> invisible / automatic to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the player.  Like when you were heavier you just
>>>>> dont
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> jump
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> as high or as
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> far.  The player might not know there are 5 levels
>>>>> of
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> jumping ability, they
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> might just realize "hey when i take off my armor i
>>>>> can
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> make
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> that jump to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> that cave i couldnt get to before" (and of course
>>>>> maybe
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> an
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> NPC tips you off
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to that fact).  Or there are boots that have the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> description
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> of "wear to be
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> able to jump higher"
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> But yeah there is deffinate wisdom to keeping it
>>>>> simple,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> especially keeping
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the end result the player sees simple.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Someone should be able to pick up the game and be
>>>>> able
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> play without
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> having to read some huge manual :P
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the old saying "easy to learn difficult to master"
>>>>> yadda
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> yadda
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:13 PM, katie cook
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Okay guys, this is just my opinion. =) For me
>>>>> when I
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> play
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> arcade-ish style
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> games like I the ones I think (if I understand
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> correctly)
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> that we are trying
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to make, I think Chris has got a really good
>>>>> point. I
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> like
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to take the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> easiest route possible to get to the next step.
>>>>> Not
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> that we
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> should flake on
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> stuff. But we should make sure to not
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> scrutinize/overthink
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> things too much
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> if that makes sense.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> I like the opportunity to get a little bit deeper
>>>>> with
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> a
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game if I choose
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to at the time, but appreciate when I don't have
>>>>> to.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Usually arcades games
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> tend to be shorter in hours played. When I play a
>>>>> short
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game, I don't wanna
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> have to invest a lot of time and deal with
>>>>> frivilous
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> features. The easier
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the game the funner it is for me (for
>>>>> arcade/short
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> games. I
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> hope this makes
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> sense.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Chris Riccobono
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> From: Chris Riccobono 
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update
>>>>> 270
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To: 
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:46 PM
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> 5 different jump levels is going to complicate
>>>>> things a
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> bit
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> more than
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> we want.  Try to keep in mind that the ideal is
>>>>> to make
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game more
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> fun.  Ask yourself, will 5 different jumps
>>>>> enhance the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> enough to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> warrant the amount of coding, designing, and bug
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> testing
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> they will
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> require?
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To reiterate what I tried to stress early on, we
>>>>> want
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game to be
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> as fun as possible, as simply as possible.
>>>>> Having a
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> complex game is
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> great if it enhances the experience, but if it
>>>>> doesn't,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> it
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> becomes a
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> hinderance - just another game, in other words.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To give you a specific example, your idea about
>>>>> armor
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> making you
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> slower and jump shorter will generally make
>>>>> players
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> avoid
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> doing that
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> in any instance they can.  In action based games,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> skilled
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> players will
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> go towards what is as fast and damaging as
>>>>> possible,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> will avoid
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> things like that on purpose.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Also, having injuries slow you down will make
>>>>> players
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> feel
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> like they
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> can't be damaged.  For things like this you want
>>>>> to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> flip
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the tables,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> and instead create armor that gives players more
>>>>> speed,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> but
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> they take
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> more damage.  It might seem like a small thing,
>>>>> but in
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> eyes of a
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> player it can make a huge difference in gameplay.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Basically ask yourself if you would play the game
>>>>> and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> have
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> fun doing
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the things you imagine.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Alan
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Wolfe<alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > you know the kind of cool thing about this too
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > we could actually make situations that you
>>>>> couldn't
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > escape from, and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > have
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > things like pits that when you fall into them
>>>>> you die
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > instantly and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > return
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > to the void.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > those are really mean (literally!) features but
>>>>> if we
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > use
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > them sparingly
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > or
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > in some kind of "i told you not to look in the
>>>>> box"
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > situations that
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > could be
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > actually pretty funny.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > im not sure if you are down with it, but it
>>>>> would
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > bring a
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > feeling of
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > mortality :P
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > ps i'll add the previous ideas to the wiki once
>>>>> i get
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > home if no one
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > else
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > has by then.  I dont mind but just can't right
>>>>> now :P
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:44 PM, eric drewes
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> yes - harsh but like i said, its an emergency
>>>>> only
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> option to be as a
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> last
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> resort... i think any other way of doing it
>>>>> will
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> allow
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> too many holes
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> for
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> exploits (such as exp or item farming, etc)
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> so would you lose all exp, gold and items
>>>>> gained
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> then?
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:41 PM, eric drewes
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> yeah i think that is what we';ll do, you can
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> recall to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> the void at
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> any
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> time but it effectively just restores a
>>>>> saved game
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> so
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> you gain no
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> benefit to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> it.  We'll make this sort of a last ditch
>>>>> option,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> so
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> we'll try to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> design it
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> so people never have to use it under normal
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> circumstances
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> no, im just here to poke holes in your
>>>>> ideas <g>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> jk but no im not sure... other than perhaps
>>>>> the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> player can return to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> the void at any time, and the cost is that
>>>>> you've
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> lost all the time
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> you've
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> taken to progress to where you are (ie you
>>>>> have
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> walk back)
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:38 PM, eric
>>>>> drewes
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> wait i take that back, i'll have to think
>>>>> of a
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> real
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> solution.  any
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> ideas?
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Alan
>>>>> Wolfe
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> ok
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> is recall always going to be available?
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:35 PM, eric
>>>>> drewes
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> recall
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Alan
>>>>> Wolfe
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> ok sounds good.  the lax attitude and
>>>>> not
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> needing
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> perfection
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> will
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> make it alot easier to test and build.
>>>>> We'll
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> just have to make
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> sure and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> keep that in mind when designing
>>>>> things.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> actually i think we will probably still
>>>>> have
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> do a lot of
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> testing
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> with the various jumps to make sure
>>>>> people
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> can't
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> get somewhere
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> they arent
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> meant to be that they cant get out of -
>>>>> ie i
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> can
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> enter this
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 3 jump
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> area but i can't escape.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> what's your thoughts on that situation?
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:29 PM, eric
>>>>> drewes
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> well 2 things...
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> 1 - i am comfortable with the testing,
>>>>> i
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> it'll add a lot
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> the game - what do you guys think?
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> 2 - alan i would really say we'd only
>>>>> need
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> test for 2 things
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> the ability for level 2 to get past
>>>>> areas
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> have no
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> non-jumping route
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> through and to make sure tier 5 people
>>>>> can't
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> exploit anything
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> we don't want
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> them too... i would say if a tier 3
>>>>> person
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> find a way to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> get over
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> something designed as a secret for
>>>>> level 4
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> people, then that is
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> ok w/ me,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> and likewise with level 4 getting to
>>>>> level 5
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> areas.  if they
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> can find a way
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> to overcome the handicap, i dont want
>>>>> to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> stop
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> them :)
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Alan
>>>>> Wolfe
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> and of course another option is we
>>>>> just
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> design
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> it where fine
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> tuned details like that aren't
>>>>> important
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> like if you can jump it instead of
>>>>> having
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> get a rope and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> climb
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> up, who cares!
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> but shrug just wanted to point out
>>>>> this
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> aspect
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> solution!
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Alan
>>>>> Wolfe
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I like the idea.  It deffinately
>>>>> makes
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> thigns
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> exploration
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> based since we could put places that
>>>>> you
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> can't
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> get to while
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> starting out
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This isn't a deal breaker but i want
>>>>> to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> point
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> out this will
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> increase testing and designing time:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * all maps will have to be played
>>>>> with the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> highest jump level
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> make sure they cant exploit anything
>>>>> they
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't be able
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * all maps will have to played with
>>>>> the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> lowest
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> jump level to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> make sure the minimum we want
>>>>> passable is
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> passable
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * for maps which have a specific
>>>>> jump
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> requirement areas (ie
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> level 3 lets you get to this area)
>>>>> we'll
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to play with
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> that level as
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> well as the next level down to make
>>>>> sure
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> one below can't
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> get up too.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:11 PM,
>>>>> eric
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> drewes
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> what do you guys think of that
>>>>> scale?
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>  that
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> way we dont have
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> guess when we design and we have a
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> baseline
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> standard
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:58 PM,
>>>>> eric
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> drewes
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a voice spoke from the
>>>>> mountain
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tops,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and let it be
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoken, there shall be 5
>>>>> different
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tiers of
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jumping
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability, one for hardly
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any jump at all, the next for
>>>>> between
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current jump and
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the previous
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> levels not-really-a-jump, the
>>>>> third is
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is there now,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the fourth for a
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump equal to 1.5x as high/far as
>>>>> the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3rd
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a fifth that
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is triple the
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normal jump - this will be
>>>>> reserved for
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> special facet,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> item boosts or a max
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100 quickness bonus.
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically it is like this:
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 1) barely a jump at all,
>>>>> this
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will be
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for incredibly
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fat characters (w/ the fat facet)
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with super heavy
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor that they
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't strong enough to wear,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incredibly
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> injured people,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people with snake
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> torsos, etc :-P
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 2) this is what people
>>>>> wearing
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate/heavy chain
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor,
>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ...
>
> [Message clipped]

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