Good lookin out man, thanks! Should come in handy ;) Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:44:53 To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270 lol i gots it 4 you eric: http://xkcd.com/526/ On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 7:42 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Hey katie, did you read the messages re: model sizes? If not, basically > moving forward we're gonna go with the scale of 10 units in 3d = 1 meter, > just so it takes out some of the guess work as far as scale/size etc :) I > think this applies more to objects like walls and floors than the stuff > you've been working on and this is a new thing we decided on so don't worry > if you haven't been building for it - I don't really think it'll negativ ely > affect you, jusy something to keep in mind when building. > > There's a decent xkcd that gives a scale for metric for americans haha if > you want a reference. I'm heading to a bar and on my bb otherewise I'd paste > it :P > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > ------------------------------ > *From*: katie cook > *Date*: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:20:29 -0700 (PDT) > *To*: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > *Subject*: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270 > > I wouldn't call it putting up with. I would say lucky enough to tag > along. Thanks Guys! I feel very fortunate to be working on a team of really > awesome guys. =) > > --- On *Fri, 6/26/09, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>* wrote: > > > From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> > Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270 > To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 7:05 PM > > Katie, we are EXTREMELY lucky to have you here (: > > thank you for putting up with us haha > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 6:52 PM, katie cook > <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx> > > wrote: > >> Yeah, we artist sometimes let things get the best of us and our egos >> get in the way. >> >> For me its just about making people happy. Whatever it takes to accomplish >> that is what I will do. =0 >> >> --- On *Fri, 6/26/09, Alan Wolfe >> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> >> >* wrote: >> >> >> From: Alan Wolfe >> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> >> > >> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270 >> To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 6:36 PM >> >> Design always seems to be pretty haeted from what i've seen workin at >> the companies ive been at. >> >> the reason why is because in programming you can benchmark things, see >> what runs faster and uses less memory. >> >> In art, i think you can quantify things a little bit, but way less than >> programming. >> >> in design - there is no way to quantify most things other than just having >> people play it but its really hard to isolate single ideas for play >> testing. So, if people let it get personal it gets bad lol. >> >> Luckily everybody here is pretty cool and hopefully nobody will take >> anything personally (: >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 6:28 PM, katie cook >> <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx> >> > wrote: >> >>> drama anyone? =0 >>> >>> --- On *Fri, 6/26/09, eric drewes >>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx> >>> >* wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx> >>> > >>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270 >>> To: >>> project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>> Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 5:07 AM >>> >>> basically i view this entire argument as such: >>> i show you a puzzle piece for a massive puzzle i am working on and you >>> tell me that the shape of the edges aren't aethestically pleasing to you and >>> they need to be changed. :P >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 7:49 AM, eric drewes >>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx> >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> I understand your point - i just disagree with it :P It will be used, it >>>> will be fun, nothing will be half done or incomplete. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 7:00 AM, Chris Riccobono >>>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx> >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> You really seem to be missing my point though Eric. If we focus more >>>>> on things that will get used, we can make those more fun, instead of >>>>> adding things that either are half done or incomplete. >>>>> >>>>> Basically, the way you think that it should be in just in case 1 >>>>> person uses it, I think it shouldn't be because only one person will >>>>> use it. >>>>> >>>>> But lets just put it aside for now, I don't want to ruffle any more >>>>> feathers here :P >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 6:46 AM, eric >>>>> drewes<figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > basically it seems to me that everyone's argument is "but I want to >>>>> be able >>>>> > to jump far!" because we're just looking only at the jumping issue. >>>>> > Overall, the game will be balanced to make heavy armor desirable for >>>>> some >>>>> > circumstances, and some people may be willing to sacrifice being able >>>>> to >>>>> > jump stuff to get that extra protection. >>>>> > >>>>> > I really think you guys aren't looking at the overall picture. this >>>>> isn't a >>>>> > jumping game. being able to jump far is not a requirement for >>>>> beating the >>>>> > game. heavy armor will have advantages in other systems to offset >>>>> not being >>>>> > able to jump as far. just because YOU currently do not think you >>>>> would use >>>>> > heavy armor doesn't mean we should eliminate it for the people who >>>>> may be >>>>> > interested in using it all the time or in certain circumstances. >>>>> > >>>>> > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 9:42 AM, eric drewes >>>>> > <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> well heavy armor isn't just for the hero and no one is forced to use >>>>> it >>>>> >> for the main character, i don't want to just eliminate it because we >>>>> wouldnt >>>>> >> want to use it. I think its best to give the players the option to >>>>> decide >>>>> >> how they want to play without us dictating how we think their >>>>> character >>>>> >> should be - the design is meant to lead people into making their own >>>>> >> decisions about what they want to do. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:40 AM, Chris Riccobono < >>>>> crysalim@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> >> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> After reading the rest of the thread: >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Nick's point about taking off heavy armor is a very good one. >>>>> Sure, >>>>> >>> we can leave that in and let people do that, but we could also >>>>> leave >>>>> >>> that out and dedicate more time to other stuff that players will >>>>> end >>>>> >>> up using. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> If we can figure out what players will like to use and what they >>>>> >>> won't, we're going to have that much better of a game! >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:13 AM, eric >>>>> >>> drewes<figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> > cool, i think it is a good compromise :) also, i understand your >>>>> >>> > concern w/ >>>>> >>> > wanting an additional tier but maybe we can play with the jump >>>>> >>> > distances for >>>>> >>> > traps and solve it that way. >>>>> >>> > >>>>> >>> > in retrospect and upon further review i think that the super jump >>>>> would >>>>> >>> > be >>>>> >>> > better at least 2x to create a distinct separation from normal >>>>> jumping. >>>>> >>> > >>>>> >>> > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Kent Petersen < >>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> >>> > wrote: >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> >> I like Eric's system. it is a hybrid of what everyone wants. >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> >> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:37 AM, eric drewes < >>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> >>> >> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>> as do all men (and some women) >>>>> >>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Nick Klotz < >>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> >>> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>> I wish women felt the same about relationships. >>>>> >>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:30 PM, eric drewes < >>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> >>> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> i guess a better way to say it is, i am all about value and >>>>> bang >>>>> >>> >>>>> for >>>>> >>> >>>>> the buck. i am for making things complex and intricate - as >>>>> long >>>>> >>> >>>>> as adding >>>>> >>> >>>>> that complexity provides more depth and fun. if its just >>>>> complex >>>>> >>> >>>>> for the >>>>> >>> >>>>> sake of making things more complex, i just dont see the >>>>> point... >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Nick Klotz < >>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>> "we should make it as simple as possible and i am for >>>>> simplicity >>>>> >>> >>>>>> for >>>>> >>> >>>>>> the record" >>>>> >>> >>>>>> You guys have no idea how true this is. You wouldn't >>>>> believe the >>>>> >>> >>>>>> ideas and systems I had to rethink when coming up with a >>>>> basic >>>>> >>> >>>>>> combat >>>>> >>> >>>>>> design. >>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:21 PM, eric drewes < >>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>> no problem :P hehe... yeah if it was an arcade game i would >>>>> be in >>>>> >>> >>>>>>> total agreement that we should make it as simple as >>>>> possible and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>> i am for >>>>> >>> >>>>>>> simplicity for the record - as long as its not at the cost >>>>> of >>>>> >>> >>>>>>> versatility >>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:15 PM, katie cook < >>>>> ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> My bad E =P I have had no idea really how far/deep you >>>>> guys were >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> wanting to go (hence me saying I wasn't for sure. I though >>>>> I >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> caught a while >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> back you guys mentioning launch on XBLA and I just got >>>>> arcade in >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> my head. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the clarification E. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> With my new understanding of the game =), I am on board >>>>> with all >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> previously mentioned scenarious on abilities for >>>>> jumping/armor, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> etc. Not >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> that I wasn't before, I was just slightly concerned about >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> overthinking >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> simplistics. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 6/24/09, eric drewes >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> From: eric drewes >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx> >>>>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270 >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> To: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 6:27 AM >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> i want to explicitely thank chris, alan and katie for >>>>> offering >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> counter points to my original thought, i really think >>>>> having >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> alternate >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> perspectives of things will allow us to fully explore >>>>> elements >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> of game >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> design like this and that it will ultimately deliver a >>>>> better, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> more >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> intuitive and most importantly more FUN gaming >>>>> experience. I do >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> not mind >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> debating the points as I have done below because frankly, >>>>> if I >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> cannot defend >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the game design philosophy then the system we're >>>>> discussing is >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> probably >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> broken and i need to work on it some more. besides that, >>>>> it has >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> been >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> my experience in designing the combat with nick that when >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> debating ideas >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> like this it occasionally inspires great new ideas. I >>>>> actually >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> consider >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> this to be a vital part of "pre-testing" so please, I >>>>> encourage >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> you to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> continue offering your insights and perspectives! >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> To give you a specific example, your idea about armor >>>>> making you >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> slower and jump shorter will generally make players avoid >>>>> doing >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> that >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> in any instance they can. In action based games, skilled >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> players >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> will >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> go towards what is as fast and damaging as possible, and >>>>> will >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> avoid >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> things like that on purpose. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> - this is by design, we want to encourage people who are >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> exploring >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> to use lighter armor, it makes no sense to go on a journey >>>>> into >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> a mysterious >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> temple that is bound to have traps, puzzles, etc. in full >>>>> plate >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> armor. We >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> want that style of armor to be reserved for people who >>>>> accept >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the penalty of >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> speed/jumping for the enhanced ability to take hits >>>>> without >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> getting damage. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> this is a player choice. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Also, having injuries slow you down will make players feel >>>>> like >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> they >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> can't be damaged. For things like this you want to flip >>>>> the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> tables, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> and instead create armor that gives players more speed, >>>>> but they >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> take >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> more damage. It might seem like a small thing, but in the >>>>> eyes >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> of a >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> player it can make a huge difference in gameplay. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> - also by design. We want players to feel like there are >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> concequences to being injured and it should be avoided as >>>>> much >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> as possible. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> There are penalties for being injured or dying - that is a >>>>> major >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> part of the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> combat design here. We are trying to break away from the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> constant >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> healing/ressurection that has been the common thread in >>>>> most >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> rpgs. we're >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> trying to get away from the attrition system. more info on >>>>> this >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> below >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Basically ask yourself if you would play the game and have >>>>> fun >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> doing >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the things you imagine. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> - one of my favorite gaming experiences is america's army, >>>>> and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> what >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> makes it so great and so immersive is that you are >>>>> constantly in >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> fear of >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> your life so there is actual tension on the battle field, >>>>> its >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> not like tf2 >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> where you run out, spam attacks and if you get killed, oh >>>>> well, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> respawn. I >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> love the idea of players figuring out the best strategies >>>>> to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> stay alive and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> learning tactics and skills to do it. yes, it is a >>>>> challenge - >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> but that is >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> what makes it so great! Another game I love, as alan >>>>> pointed >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> out, is >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> gemstone. Gemstone was ruthless with one shot kills, >>>>> getting >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> your leg >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> chopped off and not being able to climb stuff, etc. like >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> there's areas in >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the game you have to take your armor off and be athletic >>>>> enough >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> to jump in >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> order to make it over there. staying alive is a major >>>>> part of >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> that game and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> everytime you got hit, you would bleed and feel the >>>>> effects of >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> it. as a >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> player you had to learn to adapt your skills and player >>>>> style to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> prevent >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> yourself from getting damaged as much as possible. this >>>>> is a >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> key element to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the game design we are trying to go with. so to answer >>>>> your >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> question - yes, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> i think it'd be fun :P >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Okay guys, this is just my opinion. =) For me when I play >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> arcade-ish >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> style games like I the ones I think (if I understand >>>>> correctly) >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> that we are >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> trying to make, I think Chris has got a really good point. >>>>> I >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> like to take >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the easiest route possible to get to the next step. Not >>>>> that we >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> should flake >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> on stuff. But we should make sure to not >>>>> scrutinize/overthink >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> things too >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> much if that makes sense. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> - this is an rpg, not an arcade game! :P the emphasis is >>>>> on >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> exploration, not just going as quickly as you can to get >>>>> to the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> next level >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> (although you can if you so choose). what makes rpg's >>>>> (and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> adventure games) >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> fun for me is finding all the little secrets that are >>>>> hidden all >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> over the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> world. also, everyone is acting like 5 settings is so >>>>> complex, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> really the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> first one is only for special case scenarios and isn't >>>>> meant to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> be used >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> during actual gameplay, and the 5th one is really only to >>>>> serve >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> as a special >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> thing for use like spells, flying, etc. there are only 3 >>>>> main >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> ones, a weak >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump for heavily armored players, a normal one for most >>>>> people, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> and a long >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump for people who choose to sacrifice armor for speed >>>>> and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> manueverability >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> I'd bet this jump level thing would more or less be >>>>> invisible / >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> automatic to the player. Like when you were heavier you >>>>> just >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> dont jump as >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> high or as far. The player might not know there are 5 >>>>> levels of >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> jumping >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> ability, they might just realize "hey when i take off my >>>>> armor i >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> can make >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> that jump to that cave i couldnt get to before" (and of >>>>> course >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> maybe an NPC >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> tips you off to that fact). Or there are boots that have >>>>> the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> description of >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> "wear to be able to jump higher" >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> -right, this is all an under the hood system. its funny >>>>> because >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> when i write stories, etc. i try to keep things as close >>>>> to the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> vest because >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> i like the reader to be surprised, i like keeping a >>>>> mystery and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> something >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> for them to discover for themselves. this is also true in >>>>> my >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> game design >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> philosophy, give players a ton of neat stuff they can find >>>>> out >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> for >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> themselves if they want to... the irony is, as a team >>>>> we're ALL >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> under the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> hood so i have to express all the hidden things to you >>>>> guys so >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> it can get >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> made/discussed, but then everyone is like "oh that is >>>>> overly >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> complicated >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> there's no reason for that!" without putting themselves in >>>>> the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> shoes of the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> player who doesn't even know the system exists and that >>>>> its just >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> there for >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> them to discover if they are curious and interested. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> 5 different jumps will matter only as much as we design >>>>> the game >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> for >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> them to matter. In Diablo 2, the barb jump skill only let >>>>> you >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> cross >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> certain terrain that wasn't walkable, so having so many >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> different >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> lengths was easily solved - just make the pits larger. If >>>>> we >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> can >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> find >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> an easy solution in our game - an equivalent to "just >>>>> making the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> pits >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> larger" - then we can add as many jumps as we want, and >>>>> even >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> make >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> them >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> scale into flying! >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> I recently learned how to do the shinespark tricks in >>>>> Metroid >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Redesign, and if we could make our jumps in the game >>>>> require a >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> skill >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> curve somehow, that would reward the player for the >>>>> ability to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> higher... almost like how in 3d Mario games, you have to >>>>> jump >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> right >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> as >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> you hit the ground again, within a certain amount of time, >>>>> so >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> you >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> can >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> do the triple jump. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> -i actually view it as a really simple system that allows >>>>> for a >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> lot >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> of neat versatility in game design and player strategy... >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> something that >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> allows for more skill based movement if people are >>>>> interested >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> because i know >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> some crazy people (like nick) enjoy finding crazy >>>>> challenges and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> trying to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> exploit gameplay tools to get into areas, etc. i think >>>>> that is >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> fun and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> great and should be part of our design. i picked 5 as the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> number so there >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> would be differences between teh playing styles while >>>>> keeping >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> things we >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> needed to design/test for to the minimum. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> okay so lets get down to brass tacks here (how much for >>>>> the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> monkey?) >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> (3 adunai points to whoever gets the reference) >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> IMO we have 2 options: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> a) 2 jump system - 1 for armor too heavy for you >>>>> (basically, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> non-jumping) and 1 for normal. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> pros: easier to design for, easier to test for, no need to >>>>> think >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> about armor choices for the player beyond "is it too >>>>> heavy?" >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> cons: less versatile, no differences between wearing >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> light/heavy/medium armor for adventurers, no hidden areas >>>>> only >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> accessible by >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> people who invest and discover ways to jump farther. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> b) 5 jump system - as illustrated above >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> pros: more for the player to discover, another "tool" in >>>>> our >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> tool >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> box, gives extra strengths/weaknesses when picking armor >>>>> and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> character style >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> cons: harder to design/test, may baffle some characters. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> now obviously i am biased towards B (the 5 jump system) so >>>>> my >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> pitch >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> for it is, it'll be simpler in practice for the >>>>> player/designer >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> than it may >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> seem to you right now, it's important for game balance >>>>> between >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> heavy/light >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> armor, players can really just make sure they are at level >>>>> 3 >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> (normal) and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> they will be able to get through the entire game without >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> worrying about the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> difference in jump so i think there is zero bafflement >>>>> chance, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> and it gives >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> us another neat tool for desiging exploration and hidden >>>>> stuff >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> in the game. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> I am definitely open-minded and can be convinced to go >>>>> with A) - >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> so >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> lets open it up to the forum and take a little poll and if >>>>> you >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> want to post >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> comments/thoughts/ideas - then it'll give us more >>>>> information to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> make a good >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> and intelligent decision. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> :) >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 7:55 AM, eric drewes < >>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> i didnt have time to read everythign yet but basically >>>>> here is >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> my >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> take... >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 1 is basically a "your character is broken level" >>>>> and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> doesnt >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> need to be designed for, its basically a penalty thing we >>>>> can >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> use. it is >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> the extreme >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 2 is needed to differentiate heavy armor from light >>>>> armor >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 3 is what we will design for, it is "normal" >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 4 is to sepparate quick characters with ultra light >>>>> armor >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> from people wearing normal armor >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 5 is a special case scenario type of thing >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> we're basically just designing the game for level 3, with >>>>> maybe >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> a >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> small amount of special case scenario areas for level 4/5 >>>>> (like >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> under 2-3 >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> per chapter) >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> i really don't think that it is overly complicated at all >>>>> and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> this >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> will be a SUBTLE thing, i.e. again, most of the things >>>>> like >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> this are only >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> designed for people who want the bonus, but dont have to >>>>> have >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> it >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 3:01 AM, Alan Wolfe >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> >>>>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> yeah actually thats a good point, i remember playin >>>>> zelda and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> see objects which are obviously repeated (ie black rocks >>>>> in >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> link to the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> past, or the docks in zelda 1 etc) and knowing "there is >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> something up with >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> those" but you dont know til you have the item. I >>>>> forgot >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> about that, that >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> was kinda fun gameplay :P >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Chris Riccobono >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that's part of the fun of Zelda and Metroid style >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> games... >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> getting those items that make you able to do things you >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> didn't predict were >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> possible, so then the player wonders what cool thing is >>>>> gonna >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> come out next >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> :) >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> That's a pretty cool idea for introducing game >>>>> mechanics.. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> player doesn't know about them at all in the game until >>>>> they >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> actually get >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> the item for it. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Alan Wolfe >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> yeah totally i agree with you. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> we were talkin about this before, we were saying >>>>> having lots >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> optional things to discover in a game makes it seem >>>>> bigger >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> because we don't >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> advertise what the "edges" are. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> so yeah totally, if we advertise there are 5 jump >>>>> levels it >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ruins the magic, but if the player discovers "wtf i >>>>> jump >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> higher now?" they >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> might try to see just how high they can jump. Maybe >>>>> they >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> get to level 4 and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> never cap out at level 5, as far as they know the sky >>>>> is the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> limit even >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> though they are almost at the cieling hehe. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Chris Riccobono >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, about the player not knowing there will be 5 >>>>> jump >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> levels, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> would trigger the "yay I discovered something" >>>>> emotion. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It's >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> fun to learn how to do something to reach new places, >>>>> you >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> know? >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Chris >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Riccobono<crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > I do believe simplicity brings about the most fun >>>>> when >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > done >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > correctly! >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > I think part of the fun of a game is learning how >>>>> to use >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > system, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > too, so when you can learn it very easy at first, >>>>> you are >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > open to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > learning new mechanics as things go on. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Alan >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Wolfe<alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> You deffinately have a good point. Our game isn't >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> arcadey >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> per se but it is >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> a game where you can go deeper if you want but >>>>> don't >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> have >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Like there will be lots to explore but it's all >>>>> optional >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> (Eric correct me if >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> im wrong lol). >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> I'd bet this jump level thing would more or less >>>>> be >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> invisible / automatic to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the player. Like when you were heavier you just >>>>> dont >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> jump >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> as high or as >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> far. The player might not know there are 5 levels >>>>> of >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> jumping ability, they >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> might just realize "hey when i take off my armor i >>>>> can >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> make >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> that jump to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> that cave i couldnt get to before" (and of course >>>>> maybe >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> an >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> NPC tips you off >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to that fact). Or there are boots that have the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> description >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> of "wear to be >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> able to jump higher" >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> But yeah there is deffinate wisdom to keeping it >>>>> simple, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> especially keeping >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the end result the player sees simple. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Someone should be able to pick up the game and be >>>>> able >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> play without >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> having to read some huge manual :P >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the old saying "easy to learn difficult to master" >>>>> yadda >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> yadda >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:13 PM, katie cook >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Okay guys, this is just my opinion. =) For me >>>>> when I >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> play >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> arcade-ish style >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> games like I the ones I think (if I understand >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> correctly) >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> that we are trying >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to make, I think Chris has got a really good >>>>> point. I >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> like >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to take the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> easiest route possible to get to the next step. >>>>> Not >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> that we >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> should flake on >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> stuff. But we should make sure to not >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> scrutinize/overthink >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> things too much >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> if that makes sense. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> I like the opportunity to get a little bit deeper >>>>> with >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> a >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game if I choose >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to at the time, but appreciate when I don't have >>>>> to. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Usually arcades games >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> tend to be shorter in hours played. When I play a >>>>> short >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game, I don't wanna >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> have to invest a lot of time and deal with >>>>> frivilous >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> features. The easier >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the game the funner it is for me (for >>>>> arcade/short >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> games. I >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> hope this makes >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> sense. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Chris Riccobono >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx> >>>>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> From: Chris Riccobono >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx> >>>>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update >>>>> 270 >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:46 PM >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> 5 different jump levels is going to complicate >>>>> things a >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> bit >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> more than >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> we want. Try to keep in mind that the ideal is >>>>> to make >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game more >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> fun. Ask yourself, will 5 different jumps >>>>> enhance the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> enough to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> warrant the amount of coding, designing, and bug >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> testing >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> they will >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> require? >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To reiterate what I tried to stress early on, we >>>>> want >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game to be >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> as fun as possible, as simply as possible. >>>>> Having a >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> complex game is >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> great if it enhances the experience, but if it >>>>> doesn't, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> it >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> becomes a >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> hinderance - just another game, in other words. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To give you a specific example, your idea about >>>>> armor >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> making you >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> slower and jump shorter will generally make >>>>> players >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> avoid >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> doing that >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> in any instance they can. In action based games, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> skilled >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> players will >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> go towards what is as fast and damaging as >>>>> possible, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> will avoid >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> things like that on purpose. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Also, having injuries slow you down will make >>>>> players >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> feel >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> like they >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> can't be damaged. For things like this you want >>>>> to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> flip >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the tables, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> and instead create armor that gives players more >>>>> speed, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> but >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> they take >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> more damage. It might seem like a small thing, >>>>> but in >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> eyes of a >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> player it can make a huge difference in gameplay. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Basically ask yourself if you would play the game >>>>> and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> have >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> fun doing >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the things you imagine. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Alan >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Wolfe<alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > you know the kind of cool thing about this too >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > we could actually make situations that you >>>>> couldn't >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > escape from, and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > have >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > things like pits that when you fall into them >>>>> you die >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > instantly and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > return >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > to the void. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > those are really mean (literally!) features but >>>>> if we >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > use >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > them sparingly >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > or >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > in some kind of "i told you not to look in the >>>>> box" >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > situations that >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > could be >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > actually pretty funny. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > im not sure if you are down with it, but it >>>>> would >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > bring a >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > feeling of >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > mortality :P >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > ps i'll add the previous ideas to the wiki once >>>>> i get >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > home if no one >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > else >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > has by then. I dont mind but just can't right >>>>> now :P >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:44 PM, eric drewes >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> yes - harsh but like i said, its an emergency >>>>> only >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> option to be as a >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> last >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> resort... i think any other way of doing it >>>>> will >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> allow >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> too many holes >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> for >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> exploits (such as exp or item farming, etc) >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Alan Wolfe >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> >>>>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> so would you lose all exp, gold and items >>>>> gained >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> then? >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:41 PM, eric drewes >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx> >>>>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> yeah i think that is what we';ll do, you can >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> recall to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> the void at >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> any >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> time but it effectively just restores a >>>>> saved game >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> so >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> you gain no >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> benefit to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> it. We'll make this sort of a last ditch >>>>> option, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> so >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> we'll try to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> design it >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> so people never have to use it under normal >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> circumstances >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Alan Wolfe >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> >>>>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> no, im just here to poke holes in your >>>>> ideas <g> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> jk but no im not sure... other than perhaps >>>>> the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> player can return to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> the void at any time, and the cost is that >>>>> you've >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> lost all the time >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> you've >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> taken to progress to where you are (ie you >>>>> have >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> walk back) >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:38 PM, eric >>>>> drewes >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx> >>>>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> wait i take that back, i'll have to think >>>>> of a >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> real >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> solution. any >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> ideas? >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Alan >>>>> Wolfe >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> >>>>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> ok >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> is recall always going to be available? >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:35 PM, eric >>>>> drewes >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx> >>>>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> recall >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Alan >>>>> Wolfe >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> >>>>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> ok sounds good. the lax attitude and >>>>> not >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> needing >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> perfection >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> will >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> make it alot easier to test and build. >>>>> We'll >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> just have to make >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> sure and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> keep that in mind when designing >>>>> things. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> actually i think we will probably still >>>>> have >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> do a lot of >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> testing >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> with the various jumps to make sure >>>>> people >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> can't >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> get somewhere >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> they arent >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> meant to be that they cant get out of - >>>>> ie i >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> can >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> enter this >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 3 jump >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> area but i can't escape. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> what's your thoughts on that situation? >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:29 PM, eric >>>>> drewes >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx> >>>>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> well 2 things... >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> 1 - i am comfortable with the testing, >>>>> i >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> think >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> it'll add a lot >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> the game - what do you guys think? >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> 2 - alan i would really say we'd only >>>>> need >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> test for 2 things >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> - >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> the ability for level 2 to get past >>>>> areas >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> have no >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> non-jumping route >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> through and to make sure tier 5 people >>>>> can't >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> exploit anything >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> we don't want >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> them too... i would say if a tier 3 >>>>> person >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> find a way to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> get over >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> something designed as a secret for >>>>> level 4 >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> people, then that is >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> ok w/ me, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> and likewise with level 4 getting to >>>>> level 5 >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> areas. if they >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> can find a way >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> to overcome the handicap, i dont want >>>>> to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> stop >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> them :) >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Alan >>>>> Wolfe >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> >>>>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> and of course another option is we >>>>> just >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> design >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> it where fine >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> tuned details like that aren't >>>>> important >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> like if you can jump it instead of >>>>> having >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> get a rope and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> climb >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> up, who cares! >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> but shrug just wanted to point out >>>>> this >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> of the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> solution! >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Alan >>>>> Wolfe >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I like the idea. It deffinately >>>>> makes >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> thigns >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> more >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> exploration >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> based since we could put places that >>>>> you >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> can't >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> get to while >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> starting out >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This isn't a deal breaker but i want >>>>> to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> point >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> out this will >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> increase testing and designing time: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * all maps will have to be played >>>>> with the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> highest jump level >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> make sure they cant exploit anything >>>>> they >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't be able >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * all maps will have to played with >>>>> the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> lowest >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> jump level to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> make sure the minimum we want >>>>> passable is >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> passable >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * for maps which have a specific >>>>> jump >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> requirement areas (ie >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> level 3 lets you get to this area) >>>>> we'll >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to play with >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> that level as >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> well as the next level down to make >>>>> sure >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> one below can't >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> get up too. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:11 PM, >>>>> eric >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> drewes >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx> >>>>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> what do you guys think of that >>>>> scale? >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> way we dont have >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> guess when we design and we have a >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> baseline >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> standard >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:58 PM, >>>>> eric >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> drewes >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a voice spoke from the >>>>> mountain >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tops, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and let it be >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoken, there shall be 5 >>>>> different >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tiers of >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jumping >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability, one for hardly >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any jump at all, the next for >>>>> between >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current jump and >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the previous >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> levels not-really-a-jump, the >>>>> third is >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is there now, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the fourth for a >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump equal to 1.5x as high/far as >>>>> the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3rd >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a fifth that >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is triple the >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normal jump - this will be >>>>> reserved for >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> special facet, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> item boosts or a max >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100 quickness bonus. >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically it is like this: >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 1) barely a jump at all, >>>>> this >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will be >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for incredibly >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fat characters (w/ the fat facet) >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with super heavy >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor that they >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't strong enough to wear, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incredibly >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> injured people, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people with snake >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> torsos, etc :-P >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 2) this is what people >>>>> wearing >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate/heavy chain >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor, >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> ... > > [Message clipped]