[project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
- From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:39:37 -0400
yeah i think we're all in agreement, re: temp art :)
On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I'm also a big fan of temp art cause if you ask an artist for a peice of
> art and they spend a long time working on something looking nice then you
> decide it doesnt work for game play mechanics, that effort is completely
> wasted which really fucks with your morale.
>
> basically what katie said, i agree :P
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 6:35 PM, katie cook <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> I don't know where you guys stand...And I am only looking to be
>> constructive. But I kinda agree that placeholder models/temp art is good. It
>> gives an idea of scale and environment, then that way we can get an idea of
>> the feel of the area and figure out what doesn't work or if certain aspect
>> may be trivial.
>>
>> Also, it saves time if for any reason something has to change, there
>> hasn't been a lot of time invested in something.
>>
>> --- On *Fri, 6/26/09, Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
>> To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:00 AM
>>
>> You really seem to be missing my point though Eric. If we focus more
>> on things that will get used, we can make those more fun, instead of
>> adding things that either are half done or incomplete.
>>
>> Basically, the way you think that it should be in just in case 1
>> person uses it, I think it shouldn't be because only one person will
>> use it.
>>
>> But lets just put it aside for now, I don't want to ruffle any more
>> feathers here :P
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 6:46 AM, eric
>> drewes<figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> > basically it seems to me that everyone's argument is "but I want to be
>> able
>> > to jump far!" because we're just looking only at the jumping issue.
>> > Overall, the game will be balanced to make heavy armor desirable for
>> some
>> > circumstances, and some people may be willing to sacrifice being able to
>> > jump stuff to get that extra protection.
>> >
>> > I really think you guys aren't looking at the overall picture. this
>> isn't a
>> > jumping game. being able to jump far is not a requirement for beating
>> the
>> > game. heavy armor will have advantages in other systems to offset not
>> being
>> > able to jump as far. just because YOU currently do not think you would
>> use
>> > heavy armor doesn't mean we should eliminate it for the people who may
>> be
>> > interested in using it all the time or in certain circumstances.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 9:42 AM, eric drewes
>> > <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> well heavy armor isn't just for the hero and no one is forced to use it
>> >> for the main character, i don't want to just eliminate it because we
>> wouldnt
>> >> want to use it. I think its best to give the players the option to
>> decide
>> >> how they want to play without us dictating how we think their character
>> >> should be - the design is meant to lead people into making their own
>> >> decisions about what they want to do.
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:40 AM, Chris Riccobono
>> >> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> After reading the rest of the thread:
>> >>>
>> >>> Nick's point about taking off heavy armor is a very good one. Sure,
>> >>> we can leave that in and let people do that, but we could also leave
>> >>> that out and dedicate more time to other stuff that players will end
>> >>> up using.
>> >>>
>> >>> If we can figure out what players will like to use and what they
>> >>> won't, we're going to have that much better of a game!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:13 AM, eric
>> >>> drewes<figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> > cool, i think it is a good compromise :) also, i understand your
>> >>> > concern w/
>> >>> > wanting an additional tier but maybe we can play with the jump
>> >>> > distances for
>> >>> > traps and solve it that way.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > in retrospect and upon further review i think that the super jump
>> would
>> >>> > be
>> >>> > better at least 2x to create a distinct separation from normal
>> jumping.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Kent Petersen
>> >>> > <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >>> > wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> I like Eric's system. it is a hybrid of what everyone wants.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:37 AM, eric drewes
>> >>> >> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >>> >> wrote:
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> as do all men (and some women)
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Nick Klotz <
>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> >>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> I wish women felt the same about relationships.
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:30 PM, eric drewes
>> >>> >>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>>>> i guess a better way to say it is, i am all about value and bang
>> >>> >>>>> for
>> >>> >>>>> the buck. i am for making things complex and intricate - as
>> long
>> >>> >>>>> as adding
>> >>> >>>>> that complexity provides more depth and fun. if its just
>> complex
>> >>> >>>>> for the
>> >>> >>>>> sake of making things more complex, i just dont see the point...
>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Nick Klotz <
>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> >>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>> "we should make it as simple as possible and i am for
>> simplicity
>> >>> >>>>>> for
>> >>> >>>>>> the record"
>> >>> >>>>>> You guys have no idea how true this is. You wouldn't believe
>> the
>> >>> >>>>>> ideas and systems I had to rethink when coming up with a basic
>> >>> >>>>>> combat
>> >>> >>>>>> design.
>> >>> >>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:21 PM, eric drewes <
>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> >>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>> no problem :P hehe... yeah if it was an arcade game i would be
>> in
>> >>> >>>>>>> total agreement that we should make it as simple as possible
>> and
>> >>> >>>>>>> i am for
>> >>> >>>>>>> simplicity for the record - as long as its not at the cost of
>> >>> >>>>>>> versatility
>> >>> >>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:15 PM, katie cook <
>> ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> >>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>> My bad E =P I have had no idea really how far/deep you guys
>> were
>> >>> >>>>>>>> wanting to go (hence me saying I wasn't for sure. I though I
>> >>> >>>>>>>> caught a while
>> >>> >>>>>>>> back you guys mentioning launch on XBLA and I just got arcade
>> in
>> >>> >>>>>>>> my head.
>> >>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the clarification E.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>> With my new understanding of the game =), I am on board with
>> all
>> >>> >>>>>>>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>> previously mentioned scenarious on abilities for
>> jumping/armor,
>> >>> >>>>>>>> etc. Not
>> >>> >>>>>>>> that I wasn't before, I was just slightly concerned about
>> >>> >>>>>>>> overthinking
>> >>> >>>>>>>> simplistics.
>> >>> >>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 6/24/09, eric drewes
>> >>> >>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>> From: eric drewes
>> >>> >>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
>> >>> >>>>>>>> To:
>> >>> >>>>>>>> project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>> >>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 6:27 AM
>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>> i want to explicitely thank chris, alan and katie for
>> offering
>> >>> >>>>>>>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>> counter points to my original thought, i really think having
>> >>> >>>>>>>> alternate
>> >>> >>>>>>>> perspectives of things will allow us to fully explore
>> elements
>> >>> >>>>>>>> of game
>> >>> >>>>>>>> design like this and that it will ultimately deliver a
>> better,
>> >>> >>>>>>>> more
>> >>> >>>>>>>> intuitive and most importantly more FUN gaming experience. I
>> do
>> >>> >>>>>>>> not mind
>> >>> >>>>>>>> debating the points as I have done below because frankly, if
>> I
>> >>> >>>>>>>> cannot defend
>> >>> >>>>>>>> the game design philosophy then the system we're discussing
>> is
>> >>> >>>>>>>> probably
>> >>> >>>>>>>> broken and i need to work on it some more. besides that, it
>> has
>> >>> >>>>>>>> been
>> >>> >>>>>>>> my experience in designing the combat with nick that when
>> >>> >>>>>>>> debating ideas
>> >>> >>>>>>>> like this it occasionally inspires great new ideas. I
>> actually
>> >>> >>>>>>>> consider
>> >>> >>>>>>>> this to be a vital part of "pre-testing" so please, I
>> encourage
>> >>> >>>>>>>> you to
>> >>> >>>>>>>> continue offering your insights and perspectives!
>> >>> >>>>>>>> To give you a specific example, your idea about armor making
>> you
>> >>> >>>>>>>> slower and jump shorter will generally make players avoid
>> doing
>> >>> >>>>>>>> that
>> >>> >>>>>>>> in any instance they can. In action based games, skilled
>> >>> >>>>>>>> players
>> >>> >>>>>>>> will
>> >>> >>>>>>>> go towards what is as fast and damaging as possible, and will
>> >>> >>>>>>>> avoid
>> >>> >>>>>>>> things like that on purpose.
>> >>> >>>>>>>> - this is by design, we want to encourage people who are
>> >>> >>>>>>>> exploring
>> >>> >>>>>>>> to use lighter armor, it makes no sense to go on a journey
>> into
>> >>> >>>>>>>> a mysterious
>> >>> >>>>>>>> temple that is bound to have traps, puzzles, etc. in full
>> plate
>> >>> >>>>>>>> armor. We
>> >>> >>>>>>>> want that style of armor to be reserved for people who accept
>> >>> >>>>>>>> the penalty of
>> >>> >>>>>>>> speed/jumping for the enhanced ability to take hits without
>> >>> >>>>>>>> getting damage.
>> >>> >>>>>>>> this is a player choice.
>> >>> >>>>>>>> Also, having injuries slow you down will make players feel
>> like
>> >>> >>>>>>>> they
>> >>> >>>>>>>> can't be damaged. For things like this you want to flip the
>> >>> >>>>>>>> tables,
>> >>> >>>>>>>> and instead create armor that gives players more speed, but
>> they
>> >>> >>>>>>>> take
>> >>> >>>>>>>> more damage. It might seem like a small thing, but in the
>> eyes
>> >>> >>>>>>>> of a
>> >>> >>>>>>>> player it can make a huge difference in gameplay.
>> >>> >>>>>>>> - also by design. We want players to feel like there are
>> >>> >>>>>>>> concequences to being injured and it should be avoided as
>> much
>> >>> >>>>>>>> as possible.
>> >>> >>>>>>>> There are penalties for being injured or dying - that is a
>> major
>> >>> >>>>>>>> part of the
>> >>> >>>>>>>> combat design here. We are trying to break away from the
>> >>> >>>>>>>> constant
>> >>> >>>>>>>> healing/ressurection that has been the common thread in most
>> >>> >>>>>>>> rpgs. we're
>> >>> >>>>>>>> trying to get away from the attrition system. more info on
>> this
>> >>> >>>>>>>> below
>> >>> >>>>>>>> Basically ask yourself if you would play the game and have
>> fun
>> >>> >>>>>>>> doing
>> >>> >>>>>>>> the things you imagine.
>> >>> >>>>>>>> - one of my favorite gaming experiences is america's army,
>> and
>> >>> >>>>>>>> what
>> >>> >>>>>>>> makes it so great and so immersive is that you are constantly
>> in
>> >>> >>>>>>>> fear of
>> >>> >>>>>>>> your life so there is actual tension on the battle field, its
>> >>> >>>>>>>> not like tf2
>> >>> >>>>>>>> where you run out, spam attacks and if you get killed, oh
>> well,
>> >>> >>>>>>>> respawn. I
>> >>> >>>>>>>> love the idea of players figuring out the best strategies to
>> >>> >>>>>>>> stay alive and
>> >>> >>>>>>>> learning tactics and skills to do it. yes, it is a challenge
>> -
>> >>> >>>>>>>> but that is
>> >>> >>>>>>>> what makes it so great! Another game I love, as alan pointed
>> >>> >>>>>>>> out, is
>> >>> >>>>>>>> gemstone. Gemstone was ruthless with one shot kills, getting
>> >>> >>>>>>>> your leg
>> >>> >>>>>>>> chopped off and not being able to climb stuff, etc. like
>> >>> >>>>>>>> there's areas in
>> >>> >>>>>>>> the game you have to take your armor off and be athletic
>> enough
>> >>> >>>>>>>> to jump in
>> >>> >>>>>>>> order to make it over there. staying alive is a major part
>> of
>> >>> >>>>>>>> that game and
>> >>> >>>>>>>> everytime you got hit, you would bleed and feel the effects
>> of
>> >>> >>>>>>>> it. as a
>> >>> >>>>>>>> player you had to learn to adapt your skills and player style
>> to
>> >>> >>>>>>>> prevent
>> >>> >>>>>>>> yourself from getting damaged as much as possible. this is a
>> >>> >>>>>>>> key element to
>> >>> >>>>>>>> the game design we are trying to go with. so to answer your
>> >>> >>>>>>>> question - yes,
>> >>> >>>>>>>> i think it'd be fun :P
>> >>> >>>>>>>> Okay guys, this is just my opinion. =) For me when I play
>> >>> >>>>>>>> arcade-ish
>> >>> >>>>>>>> style games like I the ones I think (if I understand
>> correctly)
>> >>> >>>>>>>> that we are
>> >>> >>>>>>>> trying to make, I think Chris has got a really good point. I
>> >>> >>>>>>>> like to take
>> >>> >>>>>>>> the easiest route possible to get to the next step. Not that
>> we
>> >>> >>>>>>>> should flake
>> >>> >>>>>>>> on stuff. But we should make sure to not scrutinize/overthink
>> >>> >>>>>>>> things too
>> >>> >>>>>>>> much if that makes sense.
>> >>> >>>>>>>> - this is an rpg, not an arcade game! :P the emphasis is on
>> >>> >>>>>>>> exploration, not just going as quickly as you can to get to
>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>> next level
>> >>> >>>>>>>> (although you can if you so choose). what makes rpg's (and
>> >>> >>>>>>>> adventure games)
>> >>> >>>>>>>> fun for me is finding all the little secrets that are hidden
>> all
>> >>> >>>>>>>> over the
>> >>> >>>>>>>> world. also, everyone is acting like 5 settings is so
>> complex,
>> >>> >>>>>>>> really the
>> >>> >>>>>>>> first one is only for special case scenarios and isn't meant
>> to
>> >>> >>>>>>>> be used
>> >>> >>>>>>>> during actual gameplay, and the 5th one is really only to
>> serve
>> >>> >>>>>>>> as a special
>> >>> >>>>>>>> thing for use like spells, flying, etc. there are only 3 main
>> >>> >>>>>>>> ones, a weak
>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump for heavily armored players, a normal one for most
>> people,
>> >>> >>>>>>>> and a long
>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump for people who choose to sacrifice armor for speed and
>> >>> >>>>>>>> manueverability
>> >>> >>>>>>>> I'd bet this jump level thing would more or less be invisible
>> /
>> >>> >>>>>>>> automatic to the player. Like when you were heavier you just
>> >>> >>>>>>>> dont jump as
>> >>> >>>>>>>> high or as far. The player might not know there are 5 levels
>> of
>> >>> >>>>>>>> jumping
>> >>> >>>>>>>> ability, they might just realize "hey when i take off my
>> armor i
>> >>> >>>>>>>> can make
>> >>> >>>>>>>> that jump to that cave i couldnt get to before" (and of
>> course
>> >>> >>>>>>>> maybe an NPC
>> >>> >>>>>>>> tips you off to that fact). Or there are boots that have the
>> >>> >>>>>>>> description of
>> >>> >>>>>>>> "wear to be able to jump higher"
>> >>> >>>>>>>> -right, this is all an under the hood system. its funny
>> because
>> >>> >>>>>>>> when i write stories, etc. i try to keep things as close to
>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>> vest because
>> >>> >>>>>>>> i like the reader to be surprised, i like keeping a mystery
>> and
>> >>> >>>>>>>> something
>> >>> >>>>>>>> for them to discover for themselves. this is also true in my
>> >>> >>>>>>>> game design
>> >>> >>>>>>>> philosophy, give players a ton of neat stuff they can find
>> out
>> >>> >>>>>>>> for
>> >>> >>>>>>>> themselves if they want to... the irony is, as a team we're
>> ALL
>> >>> >>>>>>>> under the
>> >>> >>>>>>>> hood so i have to express all the hidden things to you guys
>> so
>> >>> >>>>>>>> it can get
>> >>> >>>>>>>> made/discussed, but then everyone is like "oh that is overly
>> >>> >>>>>>>> complicated
>> >>> >>>>>>>> there's no reason for that!" without putting themselves in
>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>> shoes of the
>> >>> >>>>>>>> player who doesn't even know the system exists and that its
>> just
>> >>> >>>>>>>> there for
>> >>> >>>>>>>> them to discover if they are curious and interested.
>> >>> >>>>>>>> 5 different jumps will matter only as much as we design the
>> game
>> >>> >>>>>>>> for
>> >>> >>>>>>>> them to matter. In Diablo 2, the barb jump skill only let
>> you
>> >>> >>>>>>>> cross
>> >>> >>>>>>>> certain terrain that wasn't walkable, so having so many
>> >>> >>>>>>>> different
>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump
>> >>> >>>>>>>> lengths was easily solved - just make the pits larger. If we
>> >>> >>>>>>>> can
>> >>> >>>>>>>> find
>> >>> >>>>>>>> an easy solution in our game - an equivalent to "just making
>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>> pits
>> >>> >>>>>>>> larger" - then we can add as many jumps as we want, and even
>> >>> >>>>>>>> make
>> >>> >>>>>>>> them
>> >>> >>>>>>>> scale into flying!
>> >>> >>>>>>>> I recently learned how to do the shinespark tricks in Metroid
>> >>> >>>>>>>> Redesign, and if we could make our jumps in the game require
>> a
>> >>> >>>>>>>> skill
>> >>> >>>>>>>> curve somehow, that would reward the player for the ability
>> to
>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump
>> >>> >>>>>>>> higher... almost like how in 3d Mario games, you have to jump
>> >>> >>>>>>>> right
>> >>> >>>>>>>> as
>> >>> >>>>>>>> you hit the ground again, within a certain amount of time, so
>> >>> >>>>>>>> you
>> >>> >>>>>>>> can
>> >>> >>>>>>>> do the triple jump.
>> >>> >>>>>>>> -i actually view it as a really simple system that allows for
>> a
>> >>> >>>>>>>> lot
>> >>> >>>>>>>> of neat versatility in game design and player strategy...
>> >>> >>>>>>>> something that
>> >>> >>>>>>>> allows for more skill based movement if people are interested
>> >>> >>>>>>>> because i know
>> >>> >>>>>>>> some crazy people (like nick) enjoy finding crazy challenges
>> and
>> >>> >>>>>>>> trying to
>> >>> >>>>>>>> exploit gameplay tools to get into areas, etc. i think that
>> is
>> >>> >>>>>>>> fun and
>> >>> >>>>>>>> great and should be part of our design. i picked 5 as the
>> >>> >>>>>>>> number so there
>> >>> >>>>>>>> would be differences between teh playing styles while keeping
>> >>> >>>>>>>> things we
>> >>> >>>>>>>> needed to design/test for to the minimum.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>> okay so lets get down to brass tacks here (how much for the
>> >>> >>>>>>>> monkey?)
>> >>> >>>>>>>> (3 adunai points to whoever gets the reference)
>> >>> >>>>>>>> IMO we have 2 options:
>> >>> >>>>>>>> a) 2 jump system - 1 for armor too heavy for you (basically,
>> >>> >>>>>>>> non-jumping) and 1 for normal.
>> >>> >>>>>>>> pros: easier to design for, easier to test for, no need to
>> think
>> >>> >>>>>>>> about armor choices for the player beyond "is it too heavy?"
>> >>> >>>>>>>> cons: less versatile, no differences between wearing
>> >>> >>>>>>>> light/heavy/medium armor for adventurers, no hidden areas
>> only
>> >>> >>>>>>>> accessible by
>> >>> >>>>>>>> people who invest and discover ways to jump farther.
>> >>> >>>>>>>> b) 5 jump system - as illustrated above
>> >>> >>>>>>>> pros: more for the player to discover, another "tool" in our
>> >>> >>>>>>>> tool
>> >>> >>>>>>>> box, gives extra strengths/weaknesses when picking armor and
>> >>> >>>>>>>> character style
>> >>> >>>>>>>> cons: harder to design/test, may baffle some characters.
>> >>> >>>>>>>> now obviously i am biased towards B (the 5 jump system) so my
>> >>> >>>>>>>> pitch
>> >>> >>>>>>>> for it is, it'll be simpler in practice for the
>> player/designer
>> >>> >>>>>>>> than it may
>> >>> >>>>>>>> seem to you right now, it's important for game balance
>> between
>> >>> >>>>>>>> heavy/light
>> >>> >>>>>>>> armor, players can really just make sure they are at level 3
>> >>> >>>>>>>> (normal) and
>> >>> >>>>>>>> they will be able to get through the entire game without
>> >>> >>>>>>>> worrying about the
>> >>> >>>>>>>> difference in jump so i think there is zero bafflement
>> chance,
>> >>> >>>>>>>> and it gives
>> >>> >>>>>>>> us another neat tool for desiging exploration and hidden
>> stuff
>> >>> >>>>>>>> in the game.
>> >>> >>>>>>>> I am definitely open-minded and can be convinced to go with
>> A) -
>> >>> >>>>>>>> so
>> >>> >>>>>>>> lets open it up to the forum and take a little poll and if
>> you
>> >>> >>>>>>>> want to post
>> >>> >>>>>>>> comments/thoughts/ideas - then it'll give us more information
>> to
>> >>> >>>>>>>> make a good
>> >>> >>>>>>>> and intelligent decision.
>> >>> >>>>>>>> :)
>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 7:55 AM, eric drewes <
>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> i didnt have time to read everythign yet but basically here
>> is
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> my
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> take...
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 1 is basically a "your character is broken level" and
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> doesnt
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> need to be designed for, its basically a penalty thing we
>> can
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> use. it is
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> the extreme
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 2 is needed to differentiate heavy armor from light
>> armor
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 3 is what we will design for, it is "normal"
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 4 is to sepparate quick characters with ultra light
>> armor
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> from people wearing normal armor
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 5 is a special case scenario type of thing
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> we're basically just designing the game for level 3, with
>> maybe
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> a
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> small amount of special case scenario areas for level 4/5
>> (like
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> under 2-3
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> per chapter)
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> i really don't think that it is overly complicated at all
>> and
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> this
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> will be a SUBTLE thing, i.e. again, most of the things like
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> this are only
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> designed for people who want the bonus, but dont have to
>> have
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> it
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 3:01 AM, Alan Wolfe
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> yeah actually thats a good point, i remember playin zelda
>> and
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> you
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> see objects which are obviously repeated (ie black rocks in
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> link to the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> past, or the docks in zelda 1 etc) and knowing "there is
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> something up with
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> those" but you dont know til you have the item. I forgot
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> about that, that
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> was kinda fun gameplay :P
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Chris Riccobono
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that's part of the fun of Zelda and Metroid style
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> games...
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> getting those items that make you able to do things you
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> didn't predict were
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> possible, so then the player wonders what cool thing is
>> gonna
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> come out next
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> :)
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> That's a pretty cool idea for introducing game mechanics..
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> player doesn't know about them at all in the game until
>> they
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> actually get
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> the item for it.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> yeah totally i agree with you.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> we were talkin about this before, we were saying having
>> lots
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> of
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> optional things to discover in a game makes it seem
>> bigger
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> because we don't
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> advertise what the "edges" are.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> so yeah totally, if we advertise there are 5 jump levels
>> it
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ruins the magic, but if the player discovers "wtf i jump
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> higher now?" they
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> might try to see just how high they can jump. Maybe they
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> get to level 4 and
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> never cap out at level 5, as far as they know the sky is
>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> limit even
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> though they are almost at the cieling hehe.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Chris Riccobono
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, about the player not knowing there will be 5 jump
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> levels,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> would trigger the "yay I discovered something" emotion.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It's
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> fun to learn how to do something to reach new places,
>> you
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> know?
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Chris
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Riccobono<crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > I do believe simplicity brings about the most fun when
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > done
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > correctly!
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > I think part of the fun of a game is learning how to
>> use
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > system,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > too, so when you can learn it very easy at first, you
>> are
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > open to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > learning new mechanics as things go on.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Alan
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Wolfe<alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> You deffinately have a good point. Our game isn't
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> arcadey
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> per se but it is
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> a game where you can go deeper if you want but don't
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> have
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Like there will be lots to explore but it's all
>> optional
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> (Eric correct me if
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> im wrong lol).
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> I'd bet this jump level thing would more or less be
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> invisible / automatic to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the player. Like when you were heavier you just dont
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> jump
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> as high or as
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> far. The player might not know there are 5 levels of
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> jumping ability, they
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> might just realize "hey when i take off my armor i
>> can
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> make
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> that jump to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> that cave i couldnt get to before" (and of course
>> maybe
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> an
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> NPC tips you off
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to that fact). Or there are boots that have the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> description
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> of "wear to be
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> able to jump higher"
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> But yeah there is deffinate wisdom to keeping it
>> simple,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> especially keeping
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the end result the player sees simple.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Someone should be able to pick up the game and be
>> able
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> play without
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> having to read some huge manual :P
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the old saying "easy to learn difficult to master"
>> yadda
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> yadda
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:13 PM, katie cook
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Okay guys, this is just my opinion. =) For me when I
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> play
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> arcade-ish style
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> games like I the ones I think (if I understand
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> correctly)
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> that we are trying
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to make, I think Chris has got a really good point.
>> I
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> like
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to take the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> easiest route possible to get to the next step. Not
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> that we
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> should flake on
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> stuff. But we should make sure to not
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> scrutinize/overthink
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> things too much
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> if that makes sense.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> I like the opportunity to get a little bit deeper
>> with
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> a
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game if I choose
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to at the time, but appreciate when I don't have to.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Usually arcades games
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> tend to be shorter in hours played. When I play a
>> short
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game, I don't wanna
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> have to invest a lot of time and deal with frivilous
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> features. The easier
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the game the funner it is for me (for arcade/short
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> games. I
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> hope this makes
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> sense.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Chris Riccobono
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> From: Chris Riccobono
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:46 PM
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> 5 different jump levels is going to complicate
>> things a
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> bit
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> more than
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> we want. Try to keep in mind that the ideal is to
>> make
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game more
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> fun. Ask yourself, will 5 different jumps enhance
>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> enough to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> warrant the amount of coding, designing, and bug
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> testing
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> they will
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> require?
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To reiterate what I tried to stress early on, we
>> want
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game to be
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> as fun as possible, as simply as possible. Having a
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> complex game is
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> great if it enhances the experience, but if it
>> doesn't,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> it
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> becomes a
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> hinderance - just another game, in other words.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To give you a specific example, your idea about
>> armor
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> making you
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> slower and jump shorter will generally make players
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> avoid
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> doing that
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> in any instance they can. In action based games,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> skilled
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> players will
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> go towards what is as fast and damaging as possible,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> and
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> will avoid
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> things like that on purpose.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Also, having injuries slow you down will make
>> players
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> feel
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> like they
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> can't be damaged. For things like this you want to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> flip
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the tables,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> and instead create armor that gives players more
>> speed,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> but
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> they take
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> more damage. It might seem like a small thing, but
>> in
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> eyes of a
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> player it can make a huge difference in gameplay.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Basically ask yourself if you would play the game
>> and
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> have
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> fun doing
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the things you imagine.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Alan
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Wolfe<alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > you know the kind of cool thing about this too
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > we could actually make situations that you
>> couldn't
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > escape from, and
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > have
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > things like pits that when you fall into them you
>> die
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > instantly and
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > return
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > to the void.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > those are really mean (literally!) features but if
>> we
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > use
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > them sparingly
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > or
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > in some kind of "i told you not to look in the
>> box"
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > situations that
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > could be
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > actually pretty funny.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > im not sure if you are down with it, but it would
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > bring a
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > feeling of
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > mortality :P
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > ps i'll add the previous ideas to the wiki once i
>> get
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > home if no one
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > else
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > has by then. I dont mind but just can't right now
>> :P
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:44 PM, eric drewes
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> yes - harsh but like i said, its an emergency
>> only
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> option to be as a
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> last
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> resort... i think any other way of doing it will
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> allow
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> too many holes
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> for
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> exploits (such as exp or item farming, etc)
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> so would you lose all exp, gold and items gained
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> then?
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:41 PM, eric drewes
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> yeah i think that is what we';ll do, you can
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> recall to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> the void at
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> any
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> time but it effectively just restores a saved
>> game
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> so
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> you gain no
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> benefit to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> it. We'll make this sort of a last ditch
>> option,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> so
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> we'll try to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> design it
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> so people never have to use it under normal
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> circumstances
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> no, im just here to poke holes in your ideas
>> <g>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> jk but no im not sure... other than perhaps
>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> player can return to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> the void at any time, and the cost is that
>> you've
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> lost all the time
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> you've
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> taken to progress to where you are (ie you
>> have
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> walk back)
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:38 PM, eric drewes
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> wait i take that back, i'll have to think of
>> a
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> real
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> solution. any
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> ideas?
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> ok
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> is recall always going to be available?
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:35 PM, eric drewes
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> recall
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> ok sounds good. the lax attitude and not
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> needing
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> perfection
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> will
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> make it alot easier to test and build.
>> We'll
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> just have to make
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> sure and
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> keep that in mind when designing things.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> actually i think we will probably still
>> have
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> do a lot of
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> testing
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> with the various jumps to make sure people
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> can't
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> get somewhere
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> they arent
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> meant to be that they cant get out of - ie
>> i
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> can
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> enter this
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 3 jump
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> area but i can't escape.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> what's your thoughts on that situation?
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:29 PM, eric
>> drewes
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> well 2 things...
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> 1 - i am comfortable with the testing, i
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> think
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> it'll add a lot
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> the game - what do you guys think?
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> 2 - alan i would really say we'd only
>> need
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> test for 2 things
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> -
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> the ability for level 2 to get past areas
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> that
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> have no
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> non-jumping route
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> through and to make sure tier 5 people
>> can't
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> exploit anything
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> we don't want
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> them too... i would say if a tier 3
>> person
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> can
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> find a way to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> get over
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> something designed as a secret for level
>> 4
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> people, then that is
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> ok w/ me,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> and likewise with level 4 getting to
>> level 5
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> areas. if they
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> can find a way
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> to overcome the handicap, i dont want to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> stop
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> them :)
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Alan
>> Wolfe
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> and of course another option is we just
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> design
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> it where fine
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> tuned details like that aren't important
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> like if you can jump it instead of
>> having
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> get a rope and
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> climb
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> up, who cares!
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> but shrug just wanted to point out this
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> aspect
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> of the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> solution!
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Alan
>> Wolfe
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I like the idea. It deffinately makes
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> thigns
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> more
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> exploration
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> based since we could put places that
>> you
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> can't
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> get to while
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> starting out
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This isn't a deal breaker but i want to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> point
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> out this will
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> increase testing and designing time:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * all maps will have to be played
>> with the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> highest jump level
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> make sure they cant exploit anything
>> they
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't be able
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * all maps will have to played with the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> lowest
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> jump level to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> make sure the minimum we want passable
>> is
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> passable
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * for maps which have a specific jump
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> requirement areas (ie
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> level 3 lets you get to this area)
>> we'll
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> have
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to play with
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> that level as
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> well as the next level down to make
>> sure
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> one below can't
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> get up too.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:11 PM, eric
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> drewes
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> what do you guys think of that scale?
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> way we dont have
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> guess when we design and we have a
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> baseline
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> standard
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:58 PM, eric
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> drewes
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a voice spoke from the mountain
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tops,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and let it be
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoken, there shall be 5 different
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tiers of
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jumping
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability, one for hardly
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any jump at all, the next for
>> between
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current jump and
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the previous
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> levels not-really-a-jump, the third
>> is
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is there now,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the fourth for a
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump equal to 1.5x as high/far as
>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3rd
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a fifth that
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is triple the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normal jump - this will be reserved
>> for
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> special facet,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> item boosts or a max
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100 quickness bonus.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically it is like this:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 1) barely a jump at all, this
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will be
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for incredibly
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fat characters (w/ the fat facet)
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with super heavy
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor that they
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't strong enough to wear,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incredibly
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> injured people,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people with snake
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> torsos, etc :-P
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 2) this is what people wearing
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate/heavy chain
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or have relatively strong long
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> injuries,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc. etc. will
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 3) most characters will have
>> this
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump, traps, etc.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be designed with this as the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minimum
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - though
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically we want it to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a challenge for level 3 people.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> areas can be
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed so it's
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inaccessible without level 4 though,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing vital to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passing the map -
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also, traps/jump areas that aren't
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible except
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through jumping should
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use level 2 as a minimum.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 4) super athletic character
>> with
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> light or no armor
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have this, they can reach special
>> areas
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other 3 levels
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't, jump
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> puzzles should be easier for level 4
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 5) these characters are
>> magically
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> imbued or have
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> super
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> humanly agility, maybe they have
>> little
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wings, etc. by
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passable traps, areas
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that can only be reached via long
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distance
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> travel, etc
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these characters have
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a big advantage on all jumping
>> matters.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:29 PM,
>> Kent
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Petersen
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man, that sounds awful. At least we
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learned these
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lessons and now know how to prevent
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM,
>> Alan
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolfe
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> btw line rider had the same issues
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tee
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hee
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In line rider, people
>> were exploiting
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simple physics
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation to do tricks like
>> gravity
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wells and nose
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grinds and other stuff.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we made the commercial
>> version
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game we had
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure all the tricks were
>> still
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible and we
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brought in tech dawg to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play it and make sure everything
>> was
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still kosher.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the parts that sucked - whenever
>> we
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> optomized something
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game it would break all
>> existing
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> test
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maps we had
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made so we had to wait
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> til the very end of the game to
>> make
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> puzzle maps.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also, since the DS, Wii and PC all
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point math chips in them (and ds
>> had
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> diff
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code), maps
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't work the same
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on all the different platforms so
>> we
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep sharing
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be on the same
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform it was created on.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:50 PM,
>> Alan
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolfe
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its ok man ::shakes you:: the
>> wars
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nixon is outa
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office now
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:48 PM,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kent
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Petersen
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Kent is having megaman
>> flashbacks*
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:47 PM,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolfe
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indeed! I'm going to
>> re-iterate
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you said Kent
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so people understand the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> importance
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should figure out how high /
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far we
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be able to jump and how
>> strong
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gravity should be
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muey importante~!
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once we decide we can't change
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rebuild
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and rebalance any existing
>> physics
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dependant maps (ie
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skill jumps, gaps that
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the player should or should not
>> be
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to jump over
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc) which is a total
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pain and could really be really
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destructive to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our game having to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rebuild and rebalance a whole
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bunch of
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crap later.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, lookin at you Eric, we
>> should
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talk
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finalizing.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there anything specifically
>> you
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure want the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player to be able to do? IE
>> jump
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> across a certain
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distance, jump over a
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certain hight object etc
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:31
>> PM,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kent
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Petersen
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What did you want to do for
>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trap? I
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> imagined
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that there would be 5 or so
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking tiles.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then there would be one
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct kind of tile (not the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> diamond). Then the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player would have to jump
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about through the tiles to the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct ones. I
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figured it would work
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similarly to the ones that
>> were
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kenttest.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's your thoughts on that?
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before you get to into
>> designing
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temple I would
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highly suggest that we nail
>> down
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player control and
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jumping physics. Let me
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> warn you from experience, if
>> we
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change how any of
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that works your temple
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become obsolete.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:25
>> PM,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kent
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Petersen
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Been really busy today and
>> will
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably be busy
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> next couple days. I would
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggest
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leaving the trap
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> areas open for now. If
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are willing to push on
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and have specific
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions, send em my
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way and I will be happy to
>> help
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when I get a
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chance.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 2:23
>> PM,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan Wolfe
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man that's awesome
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 2:16
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PM,
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache User
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> dhapache@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=dhapache@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> User:rorac
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message: Expanded a little
>> on
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templemap, added
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> template code as per Kent's
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advisement.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Need a sign (next room is
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> diamond
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> path). Kent, I
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will need your help to help
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that part and
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> begin putting traps in the
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hallway (first right =
>> first
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trap
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> area).
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Files Changed>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U
>> Scripts/Maps/templemap.lua
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> Scripts/Maps/templemap_geometry.lua
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> ;>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
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