[project1dev] Re: File Organization
- From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 13:20:39 -0700
I'm with you eric, i second the motion to vote hehe (;
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 12:32 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> "most games"?
>
> i think textures and the models they correlate to should stay together, but
> i guess it's whatever - i dont really feel convinced of any particular
> method
>
> should we just vote and call it a day? :-P
>
> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> In most games, models are global, and textures are area specific; to me
>> that makes the most sense logically.
>>
>>
>> As far as variables go, take great care in naming them. Using lengthy
>> names that are easily read are more beneficial than short-hand names which
>> can get confusing to decipher or remember after a while.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Basically implementing the organization system is a bit of tedious work.
>>> We would need to tell svn to rename/move all the folders. Then we would need
>>> to go into every map, enemy, script used and make sure that all the links
>>> still connect right. There will be lots of room for human error
>>>
>>> Global variables - I'm betting there are going to be tons of them. I
>>> forsee there being a lot of flags to see if something has been done or not.
>>> I also forsee a problem with similarly named/functioned variables. For
>>> example I already have a variable to see if you talk to the old man for the
>>> first time but there will probably be a variable later for talking to him on
>>> another visit. I'm betting that any area with a lot of dialogue will need
>>> global variables to keep of what was said, all stats will need them, etc
>>>
>>> I don't know about organization I think it could go either way. We should
>>> just pick one and run with it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah your concern makes sense.
>>>>
>>>> I was thinkin we could have a "props" folder in /art/models/ and break
>>>> it down into subfolders by type (ie furniture, trees, etc) so that for
>>>> things that were re-used in multiple places we'd put it there.
>>>>
>>>> Eric's idea took that one further that we could just have "common"
>>>> folders whereever needed.
>>>>
>>>> Like if something was re-used in the "mystic forest" we could have
>>>> /art/models/mystricforest/common/ where all the shared stuff across the
>>>> areas of the mystic forest go.
>>>>
>>>> so we'd have location specific stuff, and then also common folders at
>>>> various scopes that had art that was shared within their scope.
>>>>
>>>> make sense?
>>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I believe we should build a file structure that breaks things down by
>>>>> type, rather than local for models. Textures should be broken down by
>>>>> area.
>>>>> Say you have multiple types of an enemy Knight. Say, a Dark Knight and a
>>>>> Light Knight; dark knights are habitable in some obelisk; light knights
>>>>> are
>>>>> habitable in a temple. Lets say later on you want to use both knights in
>>>>> the same area, perhaps a "final area" or an arena of some sort.
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead of having duplicate entries for Dark Knight and Light Knight in
>>>>> /art/models/mobs/obelisk/darkknight, lightknight, darkknight texture,
>>>>> lightknight texture, etc etc.
>>>>> /art/models/mobs/temple/
>>>>> /art/models/mobs/arena/
>>>>> /art/models/mobs/finalarea/
>>>>>
>>>>> or having to fish around in various folders looking for where to script
>>>>> in the mob and appropriate texture, you could just go to...
>>>>>
>>>>> /art/models/mobs/Knight
>>>>> /art/textures/mobs/Dark, Light
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Similarly it would apply to traps, building structures, etc. A pillar
>>>>> used in FirstTemple may be able to be used in another temple using a
>>>>> different texture, even the floors and walls can be reused many times.
>>>>>
>>>>> /art/models/buildings/floor/floorsize rather than having different
>>>>> floor/wall models for every map (which will eventually create TONS of
>>>>> reduntant files)
>>>>>
>>>>> /art/models/buildings/structures/pillar
>>>>> then call the appropriate textures by
>>>>>
>>>>> /art/textures/buildings/firsttemple/pillargranite
>>>>> /art/textures/buildings/obelisk/pillarmarble
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There are a lot more uses than what's listed above, but that should
>>>>> give everyone a decent idea of what I'm going for here.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 1:44 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> well nick the issue is that there is no perfect way to do it that
>>>>>> would suit all of our needs, basically i think we just need to pick
>>>>>> something and be consistent - there are downsides and upsides to almost
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> system when you're talking about the depth and diversity of art, etc.
>>>>>> these
>>>>>> folders will contain. Definitely if you can come up with something more
>>>>>> efficient we'll all be happy but I just don't know if a drastically
>>>>>> better
>>>>>> method exists
>>>>>>
>>>>>> as far as changing file structures go, i would say, maybe we should
>>>>>> start now on the void map stuff and we can go back and do the cavemap
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> we revisit it... although i don't entirely know what it will entail in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> back end changes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> good question on global vars, we have so few of them its hard to tell
>>>>>>> what they are going to be used for yet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> what do you think, do you have some ideas?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And sounds good for scripts following the same format and I think
>>>>>>> peeps are for keeping file types seperated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For implementing the new naming structure we could do it now or wait
>>>>>>> til after this milestone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm all for waiting but its up to you and nick and eric and katie etc
>>>>>>> if you guys want to migrate now or after the milestone
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think its a good system. I think scripting should take the same
>>>>>>>> format.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How would you like to name global variables?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What do you want to do about implementing the new naming structure?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> oh and eric clarified that the first half of the game is broken up
>>>>>>>>> into chapters, but the second half isnt.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> so breaking the files up by location means we have both halfs of
>>>>>>>>> the game covered by the same system which is nice.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It seems pretty good, are you guys down w/ it too?
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Eric just brought up the point that maybe we should divide by area
>>>>>>>>>> instead of chapter.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I kinda like it cause it simplifies things.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So like for the voidmap we'd have...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> /Art/Models/TheVoid/VoidMap/
>>>>>>>>>> /Art/Models/TheVoid/FortuneTellerTent/
>>>>>>>>>> /Art/Models/TheVoid/Temple/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (with subfolders in there as necesary)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and then lets say the next area we go to is a big forest that has
>>>>>>>>>> a bunch of diff areas, if the forest was named like "mystic forest"
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> could have folders like...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> /Art/Models/MysticForest/LowerWoods/WoodsA1
>>>>>>>>>> /Art/Models/MysticForest/LowerWoods/WoodsA2
>>>>>>>>>> /Art/Models/MysticForest/AlpineArea/
>>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ::shrug:: hows that sounds instead of the "by chapter" idea?
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *thinking*
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the input Chris
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "but we would try to not make a lot in case the game can't
>>>>>>>>>>>> handle it."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> there is no problem with the number of files or directories
>>>>>>>>>>>> there are, in fact i think more is better because that means we
>>>>>>>>>>>> have more
>>>>>>>>>>>> detailed organization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "In addition to that, we could zip or rar multiple textures into
>>>>>>>>>>>> one file"
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The game doesnt constantly scan directories or anything like
>>>>>>>>>>>> that, and storing the files in zip files would increase the load
>>>>>>>>>>>> times cause
>>>>>>>>>>>> the contents of the files have to be unzipped when loading the
>>>>>>>>>>>> assets.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We could do uncompressed files like wad files. That would just
>>>>>>>>>>>> hide our assets so people couldn't steal them or alter them as
>>>>>>>>>>>> easily.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That might be a good thing to do eventually but we need an org
>>>>>>>>>>>> scheme for the wad files so are back at the same org problem (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But you are also for keeping the different types of files in
>>>>>>>>>>>> diff directories, thanks for that input too!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 3:05 AM, Chris Riccobono <
>>>>>>>>>>>> crysalim@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a really tough one Alan, I don't envy you for having to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tackle it :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought hard on it and came up with a few things. A simple
>>>>>>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>>>>>>> based folder structure could work, so that the game can call
>>>>>>>>>>>>> files
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from appropriate folders easily.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So it would have folders for each type of file:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /models
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /textures
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /lua
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In those folders you could make subfolders based on needs, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would try to not make a lot in case the game can't handle it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In addition to that, we could zip or rar multiple textures into
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>>> file, and have the game read into that file when loading a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> model.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That could help when a lot of files have similar names and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't need
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be scanned constantly in a directory.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't think of more right now, but I agree that we need to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> find some
>>>>>>>>>>>>> way to organize things soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Alan Wolfe<
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Ok so this topic keeps coming up, maybe it's time to figure
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it out (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > =============
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Question 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > =============
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > How do we want to organize files?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > For instance one way, if our game is broken up into chapters
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (i think it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > but is that right eric?) we could organize by the chapter
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something first
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > appears in, as well as location.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > For instance! voidmap and tent art could go in...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 0/Voidmap/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 0/Tent/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > then, lets say we start working on a town that leads to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> forest that has a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > lot of different maps (and lets say this is for chapter 2),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we could put the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > art in folders like...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 2/UberVille/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 2/UberVilleSewersA1/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 2/UberVilleSewersA2/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 2/UberVilleSewersB1/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 2/UberVilleSewersB2/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 2/MysticForestA1/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 2/MysticForestB1/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 2/MysticForestC1/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 2/MysticForestC2/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > the "A1", "C2" etc is like, grid coordinates of the map
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (letters are X axis,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > numbers are 1 axis?) so that for places with multiple maps,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we know where
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > things are located kind of. It doesnt have to be really
>>>>>>>>>>>>> strict cause not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > everything is square or grid shaped but as long as we do
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something to give
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > an idea of location and try to standardize it as much as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible it should
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > help a lot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Ok so you say "well what the heck, you might go to a town in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> chapter 1 and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > then revisit it in chapter 3, where does it go?" so i'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it should
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > go in the place where it FIRST showed up, so in this case the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> town would go
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > in the chapter 1 directory.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Ok so what about re-usable objects like trees, chairs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tables, treasure
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > chests etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > What if we had a folder like...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Misc/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > and then in there we could have subfolders like "furniture"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and "trees" etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > That's my rough idea... good? bad? anyone got a diff or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> better idea? (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > =============
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Question 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > =============
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Right now we have art in one folder, models in a subfolder of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the art
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > folder, and then we have maps, enemies and trap scripts in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> another folder.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Do you guys think we should keep files seperated or should we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> put them all
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > together? IE just have a "content" directory and scripts
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will live with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > models and textures and sound effects all in the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> folders.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > If we have all the files together, on the one hand our
>>>>>>>>>>>>> content is more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > organized cause it's all in the same directory structure, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > hand there will be a lot more files per folder and it might
>>>>>>>>>>>>> get confusing in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > places where there is a lot of art and lots of script etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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