[project1dev] Re: File Organization
- From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 15:25:39 -0400
the key to organization is to stay consistent, there's gonna be problems no
matter what i think, so just minimizing them is what is important. like
kent said, i say we pick one and run w/ it, when we get down to it i dont
think there are drastic differences - it'll be a pain regardless when you're
talking about thousands of models/textures, etc.
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Basically implementing the organization system is a bit of tedious work. We
> would need to tell svn to rename/move all the folders. Then we would need to
> go into every map, enemy, script used and make sure that all the links still
> connect right. There will be lots of room for human error
>
> Global variables - I'm betting there are going to be tons of them. I forsee
> there being a lot of flags to see if something has been done or not. I also
> forsee a problem with similarly named/functioned variables. For example I
> already have a variable to see if you talk to the old man for the first time
> but there will probably be a variable later for talking to him on another
> visit. I'm betting that any area with a lot of dialogue will need global
> variables to keep of what was said, all stats will need them, etc
>
> I don't know about organization I think it could go either way. We should
> just pick one and run with it.
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Yeah your concern makes sense.
>>
>> I was thinkin we could have a "props" folder in /art/models/ and break it
>> down into subfolders by type (ie furniture, trees, etc) so that for things
>> that were re-used in multiple places we'd put it there.
>>
>> Eric's idea took that one further that we could just have "common" folders
>> whereever needed.
>>
>> Like if something was re-used in the "mystic forest" we could have
>> /art/models/mystricforest/common/ where all the shared stuff across the
>> areas of the mystic forest go.
>>
>> so we'd have location specific stuff, and then also common folders at
>> various scopes that had art that was shared within their scope.
>>
>> make sense?
>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>> I believe we should build a file structure that breaks things down by
>>> type, rather than local for models. Textures should be broken down by area.
>>> Say you have multiple types of an enemy Knight. Say, a Dark Knight and a
>>> Light Knight; dark knights are habitable in some obelisk; light knights are
>>> habitable in a temple. Lets say later on you want to use both knights in
>>> the same area, perhaps a "final area" or an arena of some sort.
>>>
>>> Instead of having duplicate entries for Dark Knight and Light Knight in
>>> /art/models/mobs/obelisk/darkknight, lightknight, darkknight texture,
>>> lightknight texture, etc etc.
>>> /art/models/mobs/temple/
>>> /art/models/mobs/arena/
>>> /art/models/mobs/finalarea/
>>>
>>> or having to fish around in various folders looking for where to script
>>> in the mob and appropriate texture, you could just go to...
>>>
>>> /art/models/mobs/Knight
>>> /art/textures/mobs/Dark, Light
>>>
>>>
>>> Similarly it would apply to traps, building structures, etc. A pillar
>>> used in FirstTemple may be able to be used in another temple using a
>>> different texture, even the floors and walls can be reused many times.
>>>
>>> /art/models/buildings/floor/floorsize rather than having different
>>> floor/wall models for every map (which will eventually create TONS of
>>> reduntant files)
>>>
>>> /art/models/buildings/structures/pillar
>>> then call the appropriate textures by
>>>
>>> /art/textures/buildings/firsttemple/pillargranite
>>> /art/textures/buildings/obelisk/pillarmarble
>>>
>>>
>>> There are a lot more uses than what's listed above, but that should give
>>> everyone a decent idea of what I'm going for here.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 1:44 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> well nick the issue is that there is no perfect way to do it that would
>>>> suit all of our needs, basically i think we just need to pick something and
>>>> be consistent - there are downsides and upsides to almost any system when
>>>> you're talking about the depth and diversity of art, etc. these folders
>>>> will
>>>> contain. Definitely if you can come up with something more efficient we'll
>>>> all be happy but I just don't know if a drastically better method exists
>>>>
>>>> as far as changing file structures go, i would say, maybe we should
>>>> start now on the void map stuff and we can go back and do the cavemap when
>>>> we revisit it... although i don't entirely know what it will entail in the
>>>> back end changes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> good question on global vars, we have so few of them its hard to tell
>>>>> what they are going to be used for yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> what do you think, do you have some ideas?
>>>>>
>>>>> And sounds good for scripts following the same format and I think peeps
>>>>> are for keeping file types seperated.
>>>>>
>>>>> For implementing the new naming structure we could do it now or wait
>>>>> til after this milestone.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm all for waiting but its up to you and nick and eric and katie etc
>>>>> if you guys want to migrate now or after the milestone
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think its a good system. I think scripting should take the same
>>>>>> format.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How would you like to name global variables?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you want to do about implementing the new naming structure?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> oh and eric clarified that the first half of the game is broken up
>>>>>>> into chapters, but the second half isnt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> so breaking the files up by location means we have both halfs of the
>>>>>>> game covered by the same system which is nice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It seems pretty good, are you guys down w/ it too?
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Eric just brought up the point that maybe we should divide by area
>>>>>>>> instead of chapter.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I kinda like it cause it simplifies things.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So like for the voidmap we'd have...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /Art/Models/TheVoid/VoidMap/
>>>>>>>> /Art/Models/TheVoid/FortuneTellerTent/
>>>>>>>> /Art/Models/TheVoid/Temple/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (with subfolders in there as necesary)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and then lets say the next area we go to is a big forest that has a
>>>>>>>> bunch of diff areas, if the forest was named like "mystic forest" we
>>>>>>>> could have folders like...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /Art/Models/MysticForest/LowerWoods/WoodsA1
>>>>>>>> /Art/Models/MysticForest/LowerWoods/WoodsA2
>>>>>>>> /Art/Models/MysticForest/AlpineArea/
>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ::shrug:: hows that sounds instead of the "by chapter" idea?
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *thinking*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the input Chris
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "but we would try to not make a lot in case the game can't handle
>>>>>>>>>> it."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> there is no problem with the number of files or directories there
>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact i think more is better because that means we have more
>>>>>>>>>> detailed
>>>>>>>>>> organization.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "In addition to that, we could zip or rar multiple textures into
>>>>>>>>>> one file"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The game doesnt constantly scan directories or anything like that,
>>>>>>>>>> and storing the files in zip files would increase the load times
>>>>>>>>>> cause the
>>>>>>>>>> contents of the files have to be unzipped when loading the assets.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We could do uncompressed files like wad files. That would just
>>>>>>>>>> hide our assets so people couldn't steal them or alter them as
>>>>>>>>>> easily.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That might be a good thing to do eventually but we need an org
>>>>>>>>>> scheme for the wad files so are back at the same org problem (:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But you are also for keeping the different types of files in diff
>>>>>>>>>> directories, thanks for that input too!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 3:05 AM, Chris Riccobono <
>>>>>>>>>> crysalim@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is a really tough one Alan, I don't envy you for having to
>>>>>>>>>>> tackle it :)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I thought hard on it and came up with a few things. A simple
>>>>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>>>>> based folder structure could work, so that the game can call
>>>>>>>>>>> files
>>>>>>>>>>> from appropriate folders easily.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So it would have folders for each type of file:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> /models
>>>>>>>>>>> /textures
>>>>>>>>>>> /lua
>>>>>>>>>>> /sound
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In those folders you could make subfolders based on needs, but we
>>>>>>>>>>> would try to not make a lot in case the game can't handle it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In addition to that, we could zip or rar multiple textures into
>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>> file, and have the game read into that file when loading a model.
>>>>>>>>>>> That could help when a lot of files have similar names and don't
>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>> to be scanned constantly in a directory.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I can't think of more right now, but I agree that we need to find
>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>> way to organize things soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Alan Wolfe<alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> > Ok so this topic keeps coming up, maybe it's time to figure it
>>>>>>>>>>> out (:
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > =============
>>>>>>>>>>> > Question 1
>>>>>>>>>>> > =============
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > How do we want to organize files?
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > For instance one way, if our game is broken up into chapters (i
>>>>>>>>>>> think it is
>>>>>>>>>>> > but is that right eric?) we could organize by the chapter
>>>>>>>>>>> something first
>>>>>>>>>>> > appears in, as well as location.
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > For instance! voidmap and tent art could go in...
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 0/Voidmap/
>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 0/Tent/
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > then, lets say we start working on a town that leads to a
>>>>>>>>>>> forest that has a
>>>>>>>>>>> > lot of different maps (and lets say this is for chapter 2), we
>>>>>>>>>>> could put the
>>>>>>>>>>> > art in folders like...
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 2/UberVille/
>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 2/UberVilleSewersA1/
>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 2/UberVilleSewersA2/
>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 2/UberVilleSewersB1/
>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 2/UberVilleSewersB2/
>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 2/MysticForestA1/
>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 2/MysticForestB1/
>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 2/MysticForestC1/
>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Chapter 2/MysticForestC2/
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > the "A1", "C2" etc is like, grid coordinates of the map
>>>>>>>>>>> (letters are X axis,
>>>>>>>>>>> > numbers are 1 axis?) so that for places with multiple maps, we
>>>>>>>>>>> know where
>>>>>>>>>>> > things are located kind of. It doesnt have to be really strict
>>>>>>>>>>> cause not
>>>>>>>>>>> > everything is square or grid shaped but as long as we do
>>>>>>>>>>> something to give
>>>>>>>>>>> > an idea of location and try to standardize it as much as
>>>>>>>>>>> possible it should
>>>>>>>>>>> > help a lot.
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > Ok so you say "well what the heck, you might go to a town in
>>>>>>>>>>> chapter 1 and
>>>>>>>>>>> > then revisit it in chapter 3, where does it go?" so i'm
>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it should
>>>>>>>>>>> > go in the place where it FIRST showed up, so in this case the
>>>>>>>>>>> town would go
>>>>>>>>>>> > in the chapter 1 directory.
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > Ok so what about re-usable objects like trees, chairs, tables,
>>>>>>>>>>> treasure
>>>>>>>>>>> > chests etc.
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > What if we had a folder like...
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > /Art/Models/Misc/
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > and then in there we could have subfolders like "furniture" and
>>>>>>>>>>> "trees" etc.
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > That's my rough idea... good? bad? anyone got a diff or better
>>>>>>>>>>> idea? (:
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > =============
>>>>>>>>>>> > Question 2
>>>>>>>>>>> > =============
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > Right now we have art in one folder, models in a subfolder of
>>>>>>>>>>> the art
>>>>>>>>>>> > folder, and then we have maps, enemies and trap scripts in
>>>>>>>>>>> another folder.
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > Do you guys think we should keep files seperated or should we
>>>>>>>>>>> put them all
>>>>>>>>>>> > together? IE just have a "content" directory and scripts will
>>>>>>>>>>> live with
>>>>>>>>>>> > models and textures and sound effects all in the same folders.
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > If we have all the files together, on the one hand our content
>>>>>>>>>>> is more
>>>>>>>>>>> > organized cause it's all in the same directory structure, but
>>>>>>>>>>> on the other
>>>>>>>>>>> > hand there will be a lot more files per folder and it might get
>>>>>>>>>>> confusing in
>>>>>>>>>>> > places where there is a lot of art and lots of script etc.
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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