[project1dev] Re: Faction reputation system

  • From: Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:34:33 -0700

I'm thinking a combination of all the things you guys are talking about. I
like Alan's idea of the comrade cookie being something that can be passable
to different characters as opposed to something you consume. I, like Alan,
always saved those special items for the perfect character and never used
em. In addition to that I think death should be mostly permanent but if the
player really wants a character back (they died without the comrade cookie)
you should be able to go on an epic sidequest to recover them such as a jail
break. The jail break would need to be engaging and dynamic to keep the
player interested.

On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Yeah, im not sure...
> mayeb this is just one of those things we'll have to try and get working
> and play w/ it :P
> shrug (:
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 2:33 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> What if we just come full circle and have the jail break idea where if
>> someone dies, they can come back but you have to do a mini quest to win back
>> their souls... I definitely think there's a way we can balance it where's
>> its challenging but fair...
>> I agree with you that we don't want chores for ppl, but maybe death will
>> be infrequent enough that it would be a non issue?
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>> ------------------------------
>> *From*: Alan Wolfe
>> *Date*: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:23:41 -0700
>> *To*: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> *Subject*: [project1dev] Re: Faction reputation system
>>   or even if it was just that your char was dead "for a while" and could
>> come back after a time.
>> maybe im a puss though...
>> if you think the harder core aproach to characters would work well im
>> willing to wait and see it in action (:
>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> that's true.
>>> if we go with deeds could we have you be able to buy them after the fact?
>>> like ransom to get a characters soul back?
>>> it sucked if you forgot your deeds and died, so you always made sure and
>>> have deeds, it was kinda just an extra chore to do IMO :/
>>>   On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 2:20 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> Also bare in mind its not an apple to apple comparison... Ff6 has 18
>>>> playable chars, we'll have 3-4x that
>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From*: Alan Wolfe
>>>> *Date*: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:13:22 -0700
>>>> *To*: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> *Subject*: [project1dev] Re: Faction reputation system
>>>>   yeah, it would be a bummer if they were permanently dead because of
>>>> havign to level other characters up to that level to be able to try again.
>>>> Although you were saying the game would be based a lot on skill and not
>>>> raw numbers in combat so shrug.
>>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 2:11 PM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> Like using ff6 for an example, if you took your party to fight kefka
>>>>> and you lost, in ff you just reset and everyones back alive. In our game,
>>>>> everyone except the hero would be lost permanently w/ out comrade 
>>>>> cookies...
>>>>> I'm cool with that, I like severe concequences and think it adds to the
>>>>> challenge and tension of battle... But I imagine some ppl would cry :)
>>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> *From*: Kent Petersen
>>>>> *Date*: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 13:16:57 -0700
>>>>> *To*: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> *Subject*: [project1dev] Re: Faction reputation system
>>>>>    I like Alan's idea of having characters come and go due to story
>>>>> better than eric's idea of choosing py player selection. Using FF3 (jap 6)
>>>>> as reference, I liked when the floating continent crashes and all of the
>>>>> characters are lost and you then have the option to go around and 
>>>>> recollect
>>>>> the party members. I think there should be plenty of characters to choose
>>>>> from too.
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>> thats pretty interesting, choosing which people stick around.
>>>>>> I'm not sure how much you want other chars to be part of the
>>>>>> storyline, but we could also do it where some characters could be lost 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> others couldn't at the discretion of the game (instead of player chosen).
>>>>>> Like IE, shadow came and went in FF3 and was optional, but edgar
>>>>>> always stuck around.
>>>>>> maybe a bad example to use shadow cause he was in the storyline, but
>>>>>> maybe more like Gogo, where he was purely optional.
>>>>>>   On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 12:26 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>> i can see arguments for it sucking too... like  your fav party member
>>>>>>> leaves because you've been helping the enemy of their clan... however 
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> this may be one thing that helps keep the party turn over, (i.e. i 
>>>>>>> think its
>>>>>>> best if only a couple of party members that you LOVE stay with you the 
>>>>>>> whole
>>>>>>> time, while others kind of come and go via death, storyline reasons, 
>>>>>>> etc.)
>>>>>>> plus it makes LOGICAL sense that they would leave and it would help 
>>>>>>> create
>>>>>>> the unique "personal" story for each player
>>>>>>> my idea was something like... maybe you have an alotment of "comrade"
>>>>>>> cookies (haha... jk, but we'll come up w/ a real name) that you would 
>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>> to a party member you really liked, they would eat it and gain things 
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> not leaving due to faction rep, not being able to PERMANENTLY die,
>>>>>>> etc.... that way you dont lose your fav teammates due to death but
>>>>>>> other party members can die or leave for other reasons.
>>>>>>>  just a thought.
>>>>>>>   On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Alan Wolfe 
>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>> Very cool, thats some neat ideas.
>>>>>>>> Yeah we could basically have faction w/ individuals too, that'd be
>>>>>>>> kind of neat.
>>>>>>>> Eric was talking about how you recruit characters by telling them
>>>>>>>> what they want to hear, i wonder if maybe certain actions you do might
>>>>>>>> change faction scores w/ your individual party members?
>>>>>>>> Like if you have a cleric and you are always doin the bidding of the
>>>>>>>> undead, she might start to not want to hang out w/ you anymore.
>>>>>>>> What you think eric? Did you want it to work where characters might
>>>>>>>> lose interest in the party once they are recruited or that they would 
>>>>>>>> hang
>>>>>>>> around always once recruited?
>>>>>>>> I can see arguments for losing party members due to faction rep
>>>>>>>> loses making the game less fun so shrug either way :P
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Chris Riccobono <
>>>>>>>> crysalim@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> This is a really cool idea -  it is akin to one of my favorite rpg
>>>>>>>>> series ever, Star Ocean.  The things you do give you friendship and
>>>>>>>>> romance points, and depending on those values, different character
>>>>>>>>> scenes take place.  It also leads to characters getting endings
>>>>>>>>> together romantically, or the protagonist even joining up with one
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the side characters to end up building a house together in the end.
>>>>>>>>> These scenes also influence the creation of skills, where a
>>>>>>>>> character
>>>>>>>>> that has enough friendship points with another one can show that
>>>>>>>>> character how to do their move better, and it becomes an upgraded
>>>>>>>>> move.
>>>>>>>>> I love the idea of using these faction points to track in game
>>>>>>>>> events
>>>>>>>>> though, it will help with a lot of things!
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 9:40 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> > Ok so part of this game is that each time you play it through
>>>>>>>>> it's different
>>>>>>>>> > based on decisions you make etc.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > My idea for this is 2 fold:
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > 1) We have faction reputation.  For instance if you quested a
>>>>>>>>> bunch against
>>>>>>>>> > some gnome miners to get their gems for helping a king make a
>>>>>>>>> crown for his
>>>>>>>>> > new queen, whenever you do stuff against them you lose faction
>>>>>>>>> rep for
>>>>>>>>> > them.  That means when you go talk to them they are less friendly
>>>>>>>>> to you,
>>>>>>>>> > and perhaps even straight up hostile and attack you on sight.
>>>>>>>>> Alternately,
>>>>>>>>> > if you were friendly with them, they might sell you items, give
>>>>>>>>> you quests,
>>>>>>>>> > give you safe passage through their tunnels etc.  This is just
>>>>>>>>> like WOW
>>>>>>>>> > except i'm thinking we should HIDE a player's faction rep
>>>>>>>>> scores.  Dont even
>>>>>>>>> > show em.  The reason for that is that faction rep grinding is
>>>>>>>>> sooo retarded,
>>>>>>>>> > and also, if we don't show it, people won't as easily understand
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> > mechanism for why the game is different each time it's played,
>>>>>>>>> which will
>>>>>>>>> > give it the illusion of increased depth!
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > 2) There will be certain things where when you make a decision
>>>>>>>>> one way or
>>>>>>>>> > the other, it just straight up sets a variable to a value
>>>>>>>>> (instead of
>>>>>>>>> > chaning a rep score).  So, in this case, you can have npc's check
>>>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>>>> > variables for values instead of doing a rep score check.  That
>>>>>>>>> way, for
>>>>>>>>> > instance, like in FF3 when you choose to make the esper into a
>>>>>>>>> sword or keep
>>>>>>>>> > it an esper, if you made it a sword and visit some espers they
>>>>>>>>> might hate
>>>>>>>>> > you and say "we can't trust you, you would turn us all into
>>>>>>>>> magical weapons
>>>>>>>>> > for your own gain", but if you left it an esper they might say
>>>>>>>>> "welcome
>>>>>>>>> > friend".
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > Basically how i see bowh of these working from a technical stand
>>>>>>>>> point...
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > * We'll have a storage system for game variables.  From the
>>>>>>>>> scripts you will
>>>>>>>>> > call something like
>>>>>>>>> Faction=GetGameVariable("Faction_CaveGnomes");  and it
>>>>>>>>> > will return that variable's value.
>>>>>>>>> > * You can call
>>>>>>>>> SetGameVariable("Faction_CaveGnomes",Faction+0.05); to set a
>>>>>>>>> > game variable's value
>>>>>>>>> > * When you save your game, it saves all the game variables to
>>>>>>>>> disk
>>>>>>>>> > (encrypted to make for more difficult cheating!) and when you
>>>>>>>>> load your
>>>>>>>>> > save, it just loads the game variables back in.
>>>>>>>>> > * everything that we need to save - including inventory,
>>>>>>>>> experience points,
>>>>>>>>> > etc - will all be stored in this game variable system.
>>>>>>>>> > * it will also be used for things such as keeping track of which
>>>>>>>>> treasure
>>>>>>>>> > chests the player has already opened, and will keep track of
>>>>>>>>> permanent
>>>>>>>>> > status of things (ie is the cave caved in? if so different models
>>>>>>>>> will be
>>>>>>>>> > loaded when loading that level)
>>>>>>>>> > * when you make an NPC, right there in your NPC script you can
>>>>>>>>> pull up any
>>>>>>>>> > variable you want and do if statements against them to do checks
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> > specific items in the players inventory, do faction rep checks to
>>>>>>>>> see how
>>>>>>>>> > certain groups feel about the player, see what level the player
>>>>>>>>> is, etc so
>>>>>>>>> > basically you should be able to test against ANYTHING when
>>>>>>>>> deciding how the
>>>>>>>>> > NPC/enemy will react to the player.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > What do you guys think?

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