[project1dev] Re: Action Camera!
- From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:13:18 -0700
Well i know for instance we will want to go first person for specific
minigames and things. We may have to do some FPS optomizing for those
cases, but at the same time since they are special cases we can design the
levels with the limitations in mind (ie the level is designed for first
person view).
We'll have to see as time goes on but right now, i can't think of any decent
ways to optomize for FPS that don't involve major changes to the engine so
shrug.
On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 9:27 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> well alan, we could have other uses for going to a 1st person (or overhead
> view) to justify the work... i mean i can think of some pretty cool places
> for it but again, i dont want to add any extra work and we can definitely
> always work around our limitations, just thought i'd chime in...
>
> um like for instance: we talked about having a side view for ledges and
> stuff and special case scenarios, we could go over the shoulder for tunnels,
> caves, or like, for a raft or minecart scene, etc. again, none of that is
> necessary and we can make it work strictly overhead so *shrug* i dont know
> the work involved so i leave that decision entirely up to you:)
>
> as far as pre-rendered goes.. yah i dont know how we reconcile the pre
> rendered graphics with the in game graphics, i dont see a good reason YET
> for it but its an idea we can keep in mind :)
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> Well, the problem I have with that is that the game is optomized for
>> overhead viewing and as such gets lousy preformance in first person mode.
>>
>> it could be optomized for first person and we could switch from oct trees
>> to BSP trees and portals and stuff but that is a lot of work just to get
>> some camera cut scenes, ya know? :P
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 3:34 AM, Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>> This cave in is really awesome looking Kent, you really stepped up for
>>> this. I reloaded a few times to watch it again, and the way the boss
>>> runs straight at you is freaking cool :)
>>>
>>> As for the camera thing, what if we made it possible to script player
>>> input for cut scenes, so we could drag the player in first person
>>> flying mode in a path that specifically shows the cave in and bridge
>>> break, and then returns the player to their view?
>>>
>>> So the boss death function would call a mini player input "movie" that
>>> took the character to zoom up above the bridge at a dramatic angle,
>>> then the cave in would happen, and then it would either reset to the
>>> original player view, or do another player input to track back to
>>> where they were with the camera
>>>
>>> To do that I think we'd need to be able to script player input from a
>>> point in space to another point, and the speed at which it happens..
>>> other than that I don't know how tough it would be to code, but I
>>> tried to think simple.
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:10 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>> > you shouldn't!
>>> >
>>> > I defer to you guys :P
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> I defer to atrix, he gets my vote.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> 1 was supposed to be triggered. I guess I didnt explain that well
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> i like moving the boss or the trigger causing it myself but shrug :P
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:59 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Ok, let's put this to vote.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> 1) bridge breaks when you come up to it. It breaks BEFORE you get
>>> there
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> 2) bridge breaks when you kill the boss (the way it is now). The
>>> boss
>>> >>>>> will be in a different position so you can see it.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> 3) something else? No extra camera work for this milestone
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:57 PM, Matthew Freeland
>>> >>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> I kinda like the idea of the triggered break on the catwalk... we
>>> can
>>> >>>>>> just make another miniquake when you get to that point that causes
>>> the
>>> >>>>>> chains to break without any camera scripting or anything like
>>> that, it could
>>> >>>>>> be cool. :D
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:49 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> yeah that sounds like a good fix.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> the cave in stuff is still off screen but if everyone can live
>>> with
>>> >>>>>>> that, thats ok (:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> We'll still need the camera stuff some day but shrug...
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> Ya know, easier than all of this would be to just move the boss
>>> back
>>> >>>>>>>> farther or make him ambush you from a different direction.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> Did we decide on what we were doing?
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Matthew Freeland
>>> >>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> The abyss of... 6 feet below you? :P Kinda anti-climactic if
>>> you
>>> >>>>>>>>> ask me. Also I think there are few things in the world more
>>> annoying than
>>> >>>>>>>>> quicktime events. God of war ruined it for me. hehe
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Nick Klotz <
>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> I think the bridge should collapse after you step on it and
>>> you
>>> >>>>>>>>>> have to press a button really quick to not fall into the abyss
>>> with it. :P
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>> >>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> oh ok
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> well hey, i personally am not against them, i just think in
>>> the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> middle of a level they would look weird.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> having them at pivotal points though or something would at
>>> least
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> make them not stick out as not matching the rest of the game.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> i dont know how eric feels about them though so again i defer
>>> to
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> him lol
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Matthew Freeland
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ahhhhh that sounds nifty. :D I agree as well that
>>> pre-rendered
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> cinematics are a bad idea, was just floating the idea.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> letterboxing is what you see when you watch a widescreen
>>> movie
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> on your tv and it doesnt cut off the edges.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> it's the black bars
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> eric was suggesting we use them in our game as an
>>> indication
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that a cinematic is happening which is a pretty neat way to
>>> show the player
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> what's going on IMO :P
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Matthew Freeland
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay I have to ask... what is letterboxing?
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Matthew Freeland
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well in games like half-life where the game never
>>> interrupts
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your input the way they handle it is key lighting and
>>> directional sound to
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make you look a direction. That's really smart and fairly
>>> easy to do with
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good QA... the problem with this particular case of the
>>> boss dying is that
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have to rapidly reorient yourself after the battle
>>> and shift back into
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exploring mode. As the quake effect happens so quickly
>>> it's undoubtedly
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to be missed 99% of the time so I think it's going
>>> to be requisite
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the game pause for a sec after the battle and goes
>>> to either a scripted
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cinematic or even a pre-rendered event just so people get
>>> a feel for whats
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going on.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My problem with the active sound/key lighting approach is
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it CAN be good, but frequently when you have lots of
>>> colors and sounds
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating around it's difficult to keep track of what is
>>> 'key' lighting. An
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example would be F.E.A.R., i don't know if many of you
>>> have seen/played it,
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but it does the whole ambient horror effects really well,
>>> but alot of times
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get these annoying visions of ghosts or demons or
>>> whatever they are that
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> try and scare the crap out of you. Sounds good in theory,
>>> but you walk into
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a room full of blood stains and weird noises and all the
>>> sudden loud
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scraping noise indicating one of the ghosts is popping up
>>> happens and while
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're scrambling to try and find them and make sure ones
>>> not going to shank
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you when you're not looking you either fall off a cliff
>>> or end up missing
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them entirely because as it was being developed it was
>>> assumed you would be
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking at THAT pool of blood on the left side of the
>>> room with the shiny
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> light on it, instead of the one on the right side of the
>>> room with the 2
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shiny lights on it.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /end rant
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God I hated F.E.A.R..
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, we could definitely do things like that.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the only thing stopping us from doing that right
>>> now
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the lack of the ability to ignore player input for a
>>> period of time.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We currently have the ability to offset the camera (its
>>> how
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we shake the screen) so we could offset it along a
>>> specified path as events
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If we were going to go this route wed eventually want a
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system were you can specify points of interest as a
>>> point and a camera
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking vector, and have splines interpolate between the
>>> points but if you
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guys and Eric wants to go this route we might have to
>>> hold off on advanced
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> features for now (:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Matthew Freeland
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alternatively we can make it super cinematic and go to
>>> a
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flying third person camera that we can script like of
>>> like it were actually
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a scene in a movie. Think about it this way... The big
>>> scary cave monster at
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the end dies, after combat ends it goes to a quick
>>> cinematic that is just
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the camera moving on its own free-flying that pans and
>>> zooms out all
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hollywood-esque and shows the big scary monster falling
>>> to the ground
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> briefly followed by lots of little rocks and debris
>>> falling down on its body
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by some big pieces of the catwalk above and
>>> the rocks that block
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your passage. Then the camera sweeps back into the
>>> position it was in prior
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to whipping the big scary cave monsters ass. Could be
>>> sweet.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Wurmz
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think panning the camera would work better than
>>> zooming
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out because if you zoom out, you have no clue if the
>>> event is on screen or
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you move the camera, you know for sure what the
>>> player
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is looking at
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 7:58 PM, Kent Petersen
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I kinda like wurmz idea of taking control of the
>>> camera
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and making a cut scene. We could lock player control
>>> and fly the camera
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over. Or even simpler then that would be locking the
>>> camera and zooming out.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then zooming back in after the boss dies.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wurmz i am in complete agreement. It's an issue
>>> that
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game does neat stuff like bridge collapsing and
>>> cave in rocks blocking
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnels and yet they mostly happen off screen!
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From a code POV I'm up for coding just about
>>> anything
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we come up with a cool feature that would
>>> take too long to code, we
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can always do a temp solution now and do the real
>>> solution in a later
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Matthew Freeland
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ahoy folks, got a mini technical question as to how
>>> we
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plan on directing peoples attention to particular
>>> details in their
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surroundings...
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I bring this up because in light of the awesome
>>> script
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which Kent has been so wonderful to write... No one
>>> will really look up to
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see the platforms going squish. So how do we want
>>> to present it? Would it
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible to make mini cutscenes where the engine
>>> takes over to force the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> camera where we want it to be? There are a few
>>> other alternatives I can
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think of as well, but in terms of the boss dying
>>> and then the little
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> micro-quake occurring immediately after. Even if
>>> there is a small pause
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after combat ends before the earthquake appears
>>> there is still the ultimate
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem that all 3d game development companies have
>>> had: making the player
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look UP. There are multitudinous other ways to
>>> doing so that don't involve
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking over the players control of the camera which
>>> should also be
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you've got an idea I recommend you
>>> make it as difficult as
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible just to make those silly code monkeys
>>> work. :P
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For consistant presentation of the game I think we
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should probably hash this out with some immediacy
>>> and might even be worthy
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a milestone entry. Those are my thoughts. Feel
>>> free to leave some input!
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Wurmz
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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