[project1dev] Re: Action Camera!
- From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 12:27:53 -0400
well alan, we could have other uses for going to a 1st person (or overhead
view) to justify the work... i mean i can think of some pretty cool places
for it but again, i dont want to add any extra work and we can definitely
always work around our limitations, just thought i'd chime in...
um like for instance: we talked about having a side view for ledges and
stuff and special case scenarios, we could go over the shoulder for tunnels,
caves, or like, for a raft or minecart scene, etc. again, none of that is
necessary and we can make it work strictly overhead so *shrug* i dont know
the work involved so i leave that decision entirely up to you:)
as far as pre-rendered goes.. yah i dont know how we reconcile the pre
rendered graphics with the in game graphics, i dont see a good reason YET
for it but its an idea we can keep in mind :)
On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Well, the problem I have with that is that the game is optomized for
> overhead viewing and as such gets lousy preformance in first person mode.
>
> it could be optomized for first person and we could switch from oct trees
> to BSP trees and portals and stuff but that is a lot of work just to get
> some camera cut scenes, ya know? :P
>
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 3:34 AM, Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> This cave in is really awesome looking Kent, you really stepped up for
>> this. I reloaded a few times to watch it again, and the way the boss
>> runs straight at you is freaking cool :)
>>
>> As for the camera thing, what if we made it possible to script player
>> input for cut scenes, so we could drag the player in first person
>> flying mode in a path that specifically shows the cave in and bridge
>> break, and then returns the player to their view?
>>
>> So the boss death function would call a mini player input "movie" that
>> took the character to zoom up above the bridge at a dramatic angle,
>> then the cave in would happen, and then it would either reset to the
>> original player view, or do another player input to track back to
>> where they were with the camera
>>
>> To do that I think we'd need to be able to script player input from a
>> point in space to another point, and the speed at which it happens..
>> other than that I don't know how tough it would be to code, but I
>> tried to think simple.
>>
>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:10 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> > you shouldn't!
>> >
>> > I defer to you guys :P
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I defer to atrix, he gets my vote.
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> 1 was supposed to be triggered. I guess I didnt explain that well
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> i like moving the boss or the trigger causing it myself but shrug :P
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:59 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Ok, let's put this to vote.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 1) bridge breaks when you come up to it. It breaks BEFORE you get
>> there
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 2) bridge breaks when you kill the boss (the way it is now). The
>> boss
>> >>>>> will be in a different position so you can see it.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 3) something else? No extra camera work for this milestone
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:57 PM, Matthew Freeland
>> >>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I kinda like the idea of the triggered break on the catwalk... we
>> can
>> >>>>>> just make another miniquake when you get to that point that causes
>> the
>> >>>>>> chains to break without any camera scripting or anything like that,
>> it could
>> >>>>>> be cool. :D
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:49 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx
>> >
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> yeah that sounds like a good fix.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> the cave in stuff is still off screen but if everyone can live
>> with
>> >>>>>>> that, thats ok (:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> We'll still need the camera stuff some day but shrug...
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Kent Petersen <
>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Ya know, easier than all of this would be to just move the boss
>> back
>> >>>>>>>> farther or make him ambush you from a different direction.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Did we decide on what we were doing?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Matthew Freeland
>> >>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> The abyss of... 6 feet below you? :P Kinda anti-climactic if you
>> >>>>>>>>> ask me. Also I think there are few things in the world more
>> annoying than
>> >>>>>>>>> quicktime events. God of war ruined it for me. hehe
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Nick Klotz <
>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> I think the bridge should collapse after you step on it and you
>> >>>>>>>>>> have to press a button really quick to not fall into the abyss
>> with it. :P
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> oh ok
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> well hey, i personally am not against them, i just think in
>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>> middle of a level they would look weird.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> having them at pivotal points though or something would at
>> least
>> >>>>>>>>>>> make them not stick out as not matching the rest of the game.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> i dont know how eric feels about them though so again i defer
>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>> him lol
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Matthew Freeland
>> >>>>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ahhhhh that sounds nifty. :D I agree as well that
>> pre-rendered
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> cinematics are a bad idea, was just floating the idea.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> letterboxing is what you see when you watch a widescreen
>> movie
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> on your tv and it doesnt cut off the edges.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> it's the black bars
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> eric was suggesting we use them in our game as an indication
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that a cinematic is happening which is a pretty neat way to
>> show the player
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> what's going on IMO :P
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Matthew Freeland
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay I have to ask... what is letterboxing?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Matthew Freeland
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well in games like half-life where the game never
>> interrupts
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your input the way they handle it is key lighting and
>> directional sound to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make you look a direction. That's really smart and fairly
>> easy to do with
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good QA... the problem with this particular case of the
>> boss dying is that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have to rapidly reorient yourself after the battle and
>> shift back into
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exploring mode. As the quake effect happens so quickly
>> it's undoubtedly
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to be missed 99% of the time so I think it's going
>> to be requisite
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the game pause for a sec after the battle and goes to
>> either a scripted
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cinematic or even a pre-rendered event just so people get
>> a feel for whats
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going on.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My problem with the active sound/key lighting approach is
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it CAN be good, but frequently when you have lots of
>> colors and sounds
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating around it's difficult to keep track of what is
>> 'key' lighting. An
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example would be F.E.A.R., i don't know if many of you
>> have seen/played it,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but it does the whole ambient horror effects really well,
>> but alot of times
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get these annoying visions of ghosts or demons or
>> whatever they are that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> try and scare the crap out of you. Sounds good in theory,
>> but you walk into
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a room full of blood stains and weird noises and all the
>> sudden loud
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scraping noise indicating one of the ghosts is popping up
>> happens and while
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're scrambling to try and find them and make sure ones
>> not going to shank
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you when you're not looking you either fall off a cliff or
>> end up missing
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them entirely because as it was being developed it was
>> assumed you would be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking at THAT pool of blood on the left side of the room
>> with the shiny
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> light on it, instead of the one on the right side of the
>> room with the 2
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shiny lights on it.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /end rant
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God I hated F.E.A.R..
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, we could definitely do things like that.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the only thing stopping us from doing that right
>> now
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the lack of the ability to ignore player input for a
>> period of time.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We currently have the ability to offset the camera (its
>> how
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we shake the screen) so we could offset it along a
>> specified path as events
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If we were going to go this route wed eventually want a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system were you can specify points of interest as a point
>> and a camera
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking vector, and have splines interpolate between the
>> points but if you
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guys and Eric wants to go this route we might have to
>> hold off on advanced
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> features for now (:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Matthew Freeland
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alternatively we can make it super cinematic and go to a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flying third person camera that we can script like of
>> like it were actually
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a scene in a movie. Think about it this way... The big
>> scary cave monster at
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the end dies, after combat ends it goes to a quick
>> cinematic that is just
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the camera moving on its own free-flying that pans and
>> zooms out all
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hollywood-esque and shows the big scary monster falling
>> to the ground
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> briefly followed by lots of little rocks and debris
>> falling down on its body
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by some big pieces of the catwalk above and the
>> rocks that block
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your passage. Then the camera sweeps back into the
>> position it was in prior
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to whipping the big scary cave monsters ass. Could be
>> sweet.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Wurmz
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think panning the camera would work better than
>> zooming
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out because if you zoom out, you have no clue if the
>> event is on screen or
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you move the camera, you know for sure what the
>> player
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is looking at
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 7:58 PM, Kent Petersen
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I kinda like wurmz idea of taking control of the
>> camera
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and making a cut scene. We could lock player control
>> and fly the camera
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over. Or even simpler then that would be locking the
>> camera and zooming out.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then zooming back in after the boss dies.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wurmz i am in complete agreement. It's an issue that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game does neat stuff like bridge collapsing and
>> cave in rocks blocking
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnels and yet they mostly happen off screen!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From a code POV I'm up for coding just about anything
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we come up with a cool feature that would take
>> too long to code, we
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can always do a temp solution now and do the real
>> solution in a later
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Matthew Freeland
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ahoy folks, got a mini technical question as to how
>> we
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plan on directing peoples attention to particular
>> details in their
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surroundings...
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I bring this up because in light of the awesome
>> script
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which Kent has been so wonderful to write... No one
>> will really look up to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see the platforms going squish. So how do we want to
>> present it? Would it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible to make mini cutscenes where the engine
>> takes over to force the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> camera where we want it to be? There are a few other
>> alternatives I can
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think of as well, but in terms of the boss dying and
>> then the little
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> micro-quake occurring immediately after. Even if
>> there is a small pause
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after combat ends before the earthquake appears
>> there is still the ultimate
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem that all 3d game development companies have
>> had: making the player
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look UP. There are multitudinous other ways to doing
>> so that don't involve
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking over the players control of the camera which
>> should also be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you've got an idea I recommend you
>> make it as difficult as
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible just to make those silly code monkeys work.
>> :P
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For consistant presentation of the game I think we
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should probably hash this out with some immediacy
>> and might even be worthy
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a milestone entry. Those are my thoughts. Feel
>> free to leave some input!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Wurmz
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
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>
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