[project1dev] Re: Action Camera!

  • From: Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 03:34:32 -0700

This cave in is really awesome looking Kent, you really stepped up for
this.  I reloaded a few times to watch it again, and the way the boss
runs straight at you is freaking cool :)

As for the camera thing, what if we made it possible to script player
input for cut scenes, so we could drag the player in first person
flying mode in a path that specifically shows the cave in and bridge
break, and then returns the player to their view?

So the boss death function would call a mini player input "movie" that
took the character to zoom up above the bridge at a dramatic angle,
then the cave in would happen, and then it would either reset to the
original player view, or do another player input to track back to
where they were with the camera

To do that I think we'd need to be able to script player input from a
point in space to another point, and the speed at which it happens..
other than that I don't know how tough it would be to code, but I
tried to think simple.

On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:10 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> you shouldn't!
> I defer to you guys :P
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Matthew Freeland <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>> I defer to atrix, he gets my vote.
>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> 1 was supposed to be triggered. I guess I didnt explain that well
>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>> i like moving the boss or the trigger causing it myself but shrug :P
>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:59 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Ok, let's put this to vote.
>>>>> 1) bridge breaks when you come up to it. It breaks BEFORE you get there
>>>>> 2) bridge breaks when you kill the boss (the way it is now). The boss
>>>>> will be in a different position so you can see it.
>>>>> 3) something else? No extra camera work for this milestone
>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:57 PM, Matthew Freeland
>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> I kinda like the idea of the triggered break on the catwalk... we can
>>>>>> just make another miniquake when you get to that point that causes the
>>>>>> chains to break without any camera scripting or anything like that, it 
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> be cool. :D
>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:49 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> yeah that sounds like a good fix.
>>>>>>> the cave in stuff is still off screen but if everyone can live with
>>>>>>> that, thats ok (:
>>>>>>> We'll still need the camera stuff some day but shrug...
>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Ya know, easier than all of this would be to just move the boss back
>>>>>>>> farther or make him ambush you from a different direction.
>>>>>>>> Did we decide on what we were doing?
>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Matthew Freeland
>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> The abyss of... 6 feet below you? :P Kinda anti-climactic if you
>>>>>>>>> ask me. Also I think there are few things in the world more annoying 
>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>> quicktime events. God of war ruined it for me. hehe
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I think the bridge should collapse after you step on it and you
>>>>>>>>>> have to press a button really quick to not fall into the abyss with 
>>>>>>>>>> it. :P
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> oh ok
>>>>>>>>>>> well hey, i personally am not against them, i just think in the
>>>>>>>>>>> middle of a level they would look weird.
>>>>>>>>>>> having them at pivotal points though or something would at least
>>>>>>>>>>> make them not stick out as not matching the rest of the game.
>>>>>>>>>>> i dont know how eric feels about them though so again i defer to
>>>>>>>>>>> him lol
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Matthew Freeland
>>>>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> ahhhhh that sounds nifty. :D I agree as well that pre-rendered
>>>>>>>>>>>> cinematics are a bad idea, was just floating the idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> letterboxing is what you see when you watch a widescreen movie
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on your tv and it doesnt cut off the edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's the black bars
>>>>>>>>>>>>> eric was suggesting we use them in our game as an indication
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that a cinematic is happening which is a pretty neat way to show 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the player
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what's going on IMO :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Matthew Freeland
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay I have to ask... what is letterboxing?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Matthew Freeland
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well in games like half-life where the game never interrupts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your input the way they handle it is key lighting and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directional sound to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make you look a direction. That's really smart and fairly easy 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good QA... the problem with this particular case of the boss 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dying is that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have to rapidly reorient yourself after the battle and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shift back into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exploring mode. As the quake effect happens so quickly it's 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undoubtedly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to be missed 99% of the time so I think it's going to be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> requisite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the game pause for a sec after the battle and goes to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either a scripted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cinematic or even a pre-rendered event just so people get a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feel for whats
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My problem with the active sound/key lighting approach is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it CAN be good, but frequently when you have lots of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> colors and sounds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating around it's difficult to keep track of what is 'key' 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lighting. An
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example would be F.E.A.R., i don't know if many of you have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seen/played it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but it does the whole ambient horror effects really well, but 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alot of times
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get these annoying visions of ghosts or demons or whatever 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they are that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> try and scare the crap out of you. Sounds good in theory, but 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you walk into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a room full of blood stains and weird noises and all the sudden 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scraping noise indicating one of the ghosts is popping up 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens and while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're scrambling to try and find them and make sure ones not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to shank
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you when you're not looking you either fall off a cliff or end 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up missing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them entirely because as it was being developed it was assumed 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you would be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking at THAT pool of blood on the left side of the room with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the shiny
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> light on it, instead of the one on the right side of the room 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shiny lights on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /end rant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God I hated F.E.A.R..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, we could definitely do things like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the only thing stopping us from doing that right now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the lack of the ability to ignore player input for a period 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We currently have the ability to offset the camera (its how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we shake the screen) so we could offset it along a specified 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> path as events
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If we were going to go this route wed eventually want a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system were you can specify points of interest as a point and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a camera
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking vector, and have splines interpolate between the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> points but if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guys and Eric wants to go this route we might have to hold off 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on advanced
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> features for now (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Matthew Freeland
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alternatively we can make it super cinematic and go to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flying third person camera that we can script like of like it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were actually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a scene in a movie. Think about it this way... The big scary 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cave monster at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the end dies, after combat ends it goes to a quick cinematic 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the camera moving on its own free-flying that pans and zooms 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hollywood-esque and shows the big scary monster falling to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ground
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> briefly followed by lots of little rocks and debris falling 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down on its body
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by some big pieces of the catwalk above and the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rocks that block
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your passage. Then the camera sweeps back into the position 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it was in prior
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to whipping the big scary cave monsters ass. Could be sweet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Wurmz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think panning the camera would work better than zooming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out because if you zoom out, you have no clue if the event 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is on screen or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you move the camera, you know for sure what the player
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is looking at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 7:58 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I kinda like wurmz idea of taking control of the camera
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and making a cut scene. We could lock player control and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fly the camera
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over. Or even simpler then that would be locking the camera 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and zooming out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then zooming back in after the boss dies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wurmz i am in complete agreement.  It's an issue that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game does neat stuff like bridge collapsing and cave 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in rocks blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnels and yet they mostly happen off screen!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From a code POV I'm up for coding just about anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we come up with a cool feature that would take too 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long to code, we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can always do a temp solution now and do the real solution 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in a later
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Matthew Freeland
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ahoy folks, got a mini technical question as to how we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plan on directing peoples attention to particular details 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surroundings...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I bring this up because in light of the awesome script
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which Kent has been so wonderful to write... No one will 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really look up to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see the platforms going squish. So how do we want to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present it? Would it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible to make mini cutscenes where the engine takes 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over to force the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> camera where we want it to be? There are a few other 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alternatives I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think of as well, but in terms of the boss dying and then 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the little
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> micro-quake occurring immediately after. Even if there is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a small pause
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after combat ends before the earthquake appears there is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still the ultimate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem that all 3d game development companies have had: 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making the player
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look UP. There are multitudinous other ways to doing so 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that don't involve
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking over the players control of the camera which 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should also be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you've got an idea I recommend you make it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as difficult as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible just to make those silly code monkeys work. :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For consistant presentation of the game I think we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should probably hash this out with some immediacy and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might even be worthy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a milestone entry. Those are my thoughts. Feel free to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leave some input!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Wurmz

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