[project1dev] Re: Action Camera!

  • From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 23:10:44 -0700

you shouldn't!

I defer to you guys :P

On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Matthew Freeland
<mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:

> I defer to atrix, he gets my vote.
>
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> 1 was supposed to be triggered. I guess I didnt explain that well
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>> i like moving the boss or the trigger causing it myself but shrug :P
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:59 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ok, let's put this to vote.
>>>>
>>>> 1) bridge breaks when you come up to it. It breaks BEFORE you get there
>>>>
>>>> 2) bridge breaks when you kill the boss (the way it is now). The boss
>>>> will be in a different position so you can see it.
>>>>
>>>> 3) something else? No extra camera work for this milestone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:57 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I kinda like the idea of the triggered break on the catwalk... we can
>>>>> just make another miniquake when you get to that point that causes the
>>>>> chains to break without any camera scripting or anything like that, it 
>>>>> could
>>>>> be cool. :D
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:49 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> yeah that sounds like a good fix.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the cave in stuff is still off screen but if everyone can live with
>>>>>> that, thats ok (:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We'll still need the camera stuff some day but shrug...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ya know, easier than all of this would be to just move the boss back
>>>>>>> farther or make him ambush you from a different direction.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did we decide on what we were doing?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The abyss of... 6 feet below you? :P Kinda anti-climactic if you ask
>>>>>>>> me. Also I think there are few things in the world more annoying than
>>>>>>>> quicktime events. God of war ruined it for me. hehe
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Nick Klotz 
>>>>>>>> <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think the bridge should collapse after you step on it and you
>>>>>>>>> have to press a button really quick to not fall into the abyss with 
>>>>>>>>> it. :P
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> oh ok
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> well hey, i personally am not against them, i just think in the
>>>>>>>>>> middle of a level they would look weird.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> having them at pivotal points though or something would at least
>>>>>>>>>> make them not stick out as not matching the rest of the game.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> i dont know how eric feels about them though so again i defer to
>>>>>>>>>> him lol
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ahhhhh that sounds nifty. :D I agree as well that pre-rendered
>>>>>>>>>>> cinematics are a bad idea, was just floating the idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> letterboxing is what you see when you watch a widescreen movie
>>>>>>>>>>>> on your tv and it doesnt cut off the edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> it's the black bars
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> eric was suggesting we use them in our game as an indication
>>>>>>>>>>>> that a cinematic is happening which is a pretty neat way to show 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the player
>>>>>>>>>>>> what's going on IMO :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay I have to ask... what is letterboxing?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well in games like half-life where the game never interrupts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your input the way they handle it is key lighting and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directional sound to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make you look a direction. That's really smart and fairly easy 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good QA... the problem with this particular case of the boss 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dying is that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have to rapidly reorient yourself after the battle and shift 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exploring mode. As the quake effect happens so quickly it's 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undoubtedly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to be missed 99% of the time so I think it's going to be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> requisite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the game pause for a sec after the battle and goes to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either a scripted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cinematic or even a pre-rendered event just so people get a feel 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for whats
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My problem with the active sound/key lighting approach is that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it CAN be good, but frequently when you have lots of colors and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sounds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating around it's difficult to keep track of what is 'key' 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lighting. An
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example would be F.E.A.R., i don't know if many of you have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seen/played it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but it does the whole ambient horror effects really well, but 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alot of times
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get these annoying visions of ghosts or demons or whatever 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they are that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> try and scare the crap out of you. Sounds good in theory, but 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you walk into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a room full of blood stains and weird noises and all the sudden 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scraping noise indicating one of the ghosts is popping up 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens and while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're scrambling to try and find them and make sure ones not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to shank
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you when you're not looking you either fall off a cliff or end 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up missing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them entirely because as it was being developed it was assumed 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you would be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking at THAT pool of blood on the left side of the room with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the shiny
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> light on it, instead of the one on the right side of the room 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shiny lights on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /end rant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God I hated F.E.A.R..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, we could definitely do things like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the only thing stopping us from doing that right now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the lack of the ability to ignore player input for a period 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We currently have the ability to offset the camera (its how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we shake the screen) so we could offset it along a specified 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> path as events
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If we were going to go this route wed eventually want a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system were you can specify points of interest as a point and a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> camera
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking vector, and have splines interpolate between the points 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guys and Eric wants to go this route we might have to hold off 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on advanced
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> features for now (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alternatively we can make it super cinematic and go to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flying third person camera that we can script like of like it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were actually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a scene in a movie. Think about it this way... The big scary 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cave monster at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the end dies, after combat ends it goes to a quick cinematic 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the camera moving on its own free-flying that pans and zooms 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hollywood-esque and shows the big scary monster falling to the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ground
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> briefly followed by lots of little rocks and debris falling 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down on its body
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by some big pieces of the catwalk above and the rocks 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that block
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your passage. Then the camera sweeps back into the position it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was in prior
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to whipping the big scary cave monsters ass. Could be sweet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Wurmz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think panning the camera would work better than zooming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out because if you zoom out, you have no clue if the event is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on screen or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you move the camera, you know for sure what the player
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is looking at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 7:58 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I kinda like wurmz idea of taking control of the camera
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and making a cut scene. We could lock player control and fly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the camera
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over. Or even simpler then that would be locking the camera 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and zooming out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then zooming back in after the boss dies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wurmz i am in complete agreement.  It's an issue that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game does neat stuff like bridge collapsing and cave in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rocks blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnels and yet they mostly happen off screen!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From a code POV I'm up for coding just about anything but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if we come up with a cool feature that would take too long 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to code, we can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always do a temp solution now and do the real solution in a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later milestone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ahoy folks, got a mini technical question as to how we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plan on directing peoples attention to particular details 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surroundings...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I bring this up because in light of the awesome script
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which Kent has been so wonderful to write... No one will 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really look up to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see the platforms going squish. So how do we want to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present it? Would it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible to make mini cutscenes where the engine takes 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over to force the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> camera where we want it to be? There are a few other 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alternatives I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think of as well, but in terms of the boss dying and then 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the little
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> micro-quake occurring immediately after. Even if there is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a small pause
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after combat ends before the earthquake appears there is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still the ultimate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem that all 3d game development companies have had: 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making the player
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look UP. There are multitudinous other ways to doing so 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that don't involve
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking over the players control of the camera which should 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you've got an idea I recommend you make it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as difficult as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible just to make those silly code monkeys work. :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For consistant presentation of the game I think we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should probably hash this out with some immediacy and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might even be worthy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a milestone entry. Those are my thoughts. Feel free to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leave some input!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Wurmz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Other related posts: