[project1dev] Re: Action Camera!

  • From: Matthew Freeland <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 23:08:52 -0700

I defer to atrix, he gets my vote.

On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> 1 was supposed to be triggered. I guess I didnt explain that well
>
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> i like moving the boss or the trigger causing it myself but shrug :P
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:59 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, let's put this to vote.
>>>
>>> 1) bridge breaks when you come up to it. It breaks BEFORE you get there
>>>
>>> 2) bridge breaks when you kill the boss (the way it is now). The boss
>>> will be in a different position so you can see it.
>>>
>>> 3) something else? No extra camera work for this milestone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:57 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I kinda like the idea of the triggered break on the catwalk... we can
>>>> just make another miniquake when you get to that point that causes the
>>>> chains to break without any camera scripting or anything like that, it 
>>>> could
>>>> be cool. :D
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:49 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> yeah that sounds like a good fix.
>>>>>
>>>>> the cave in stuff is still off screen but if everyone can live with
>>>>> that, thats ok (:
>>>>>
>>>>> We'll still need the camera stuff some day but shrug...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ya know, easier than all of this would be to just move the boss back
>>>>>> farther or make him ambush you from a different direction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did we decide on what we were doing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The abyss of... 6 feet below you? :P Kinda anti-climactic if you ask
>>>>>>> me. Also I think there are few things in the world more annoying than
>>>>>>> quicktime events. God of war ruined it for me. hehe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Nick Klotz 
>>>>>>> <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think the bridge should collapse after you step on it and you have
>>>>>>>> to press a button really quick to not fall into the abyss with it. :P
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Alan Wolfe 
>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> oh ok
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> well hey, i personally am not against them, i just think in the
>>>>>>>>> middle of a level they would look weird.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> having them at pivotal points though or something would at least
>>>>>>>>> make them not stick out as not matching the rest of the game.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i dont know how eric feels about them though so again i defer to
>>>>>>>>> him lol
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ahhhhh that sounds nifty. :D I agree as well that pre-rendered
>>>>>>>>>> cinematics are a bad idea, was just floating the idea.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> letterboxing is what you see when you watch a widescreen movie on
>>>>>>>>>>> your tv and it doesnt cut off the edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> it's the black bars
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> eric was suggesting we use them in our game as an indication that
>>>>>>>>>>> a cinematic is happening which is a pretty neat way to show the 
>>>>>>>>>>> player
>>>>>>>>>>> what's going on IMO :P
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay I have to ask... what is letterboxing?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well in games like half-life where the game never interrupts
>>>>>>>>>>>>> your input the way they handle it is key lighting and directional 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sound to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> make you look a direction. That's really smart and fairly easy to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> good QA... the problem with this particular case of the boss 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dying is that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have to rapidly reorient yourself after the battle and shift 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> back into
>>>>>>>>>>>>> exploring mode. As the quake effect happens so quickly it's 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> undoubtedly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to be missed 99% of the time so I think it's going to be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> requisite
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the game pause for a sec after the battle and goes to either 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a scripted
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cinematic or even a pre-rendered event just so people get a feel 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for whats
>>>>>>>>>>>>> going on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My problem with the active sound/key lighting approach is that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it CAN be good, but frequently when you have lots of colors and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sounds
>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating around it's difficult to keep track of what is 'key' 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lighting. An
>>>>>>>>>>>>> example would be F.E.A.R., i don't know if many of you have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seen/played it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but it does the whole ambient horror effects really well, but 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alot of times
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get these annoying visions of ghosts or demons or whatever 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they are that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> try and scare the crap out of you. Sounds good in theory, but you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> walk into
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a room full of blood stains and weird noises and all the sudden 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> loud
>>>>>>>>>>>>> scraping noise indicating one of the ghosts is popping up happens 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and while
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're scrambling to try and find them and make sure ones not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to shank
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you when you're not looking you either fall off a cliff or end up 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> missing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> them entirely because as it was being developed it was assumed 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you would be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking at THAT pool of blood on the left side of the room with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the shiny
>>>>>>>>>>>>> light on it, instead of the one on the right side of the room 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shiny lights on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /end rant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> God I hated F.E.A.R..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, we could definitely do things like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the only thing stopping us from doing that right now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the lack of the ability to ignore player input for a period 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We currently have the ability to offset the camera (its how we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shake the screen) so we could offset it along a specified path 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as events
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If we were going to go this route wed eventually want a system
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were you can specify points of interest as a point and a camera 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vector, and have splines interpolate between the points but if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you guys and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eric wants to go this route we might have to hold off on 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced features
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for now (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alternatively we can make it super cinematic and go to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flying third person camera that we can script like of like it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were actually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a scene in a movie. Think about it this way... The big scary 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cave monster at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the end dies, after combat ends it goes to a quick cinematic 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the camera moving on its own free-flying that pans and zooms 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hollywood-esque and shows the big scary monster falling to the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ground
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> briefly followed by lots of little rocks and debris falling 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down on its body
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by some big pieces of the catwalk above and the rocks 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that block
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your passage. Then the camera sweeps back into the position it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was in prior
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to whipping the big scary cave monsters ass. Could be sweet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Wurmz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think panning the camera would work better than zooming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out because if you zoom out, you have no clue if the event is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on screen or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you move the camera, you know for sure what the player is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 7:58 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I kinda like wurmz idea of taking control of the camera and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making a cut scene. We could lock player control and fly the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> camera over. Or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even simpler then that would be locking the camera and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> zooming out. Then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> zooming back in after the boss dies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wurmz i am in complete agreement.  It's an issue that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game does neat stuff like bridge collapsing and cave in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rocks blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnels and yet they mostly happen off screen!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From a code POV I'm up for coding just about anything but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if we come up with a cool feature that would take too long 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to code, we can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always do a temp solution now and do the real solution in a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later milestone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ahoy folks, got a mini technical question as to how we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plan on directing peoples attention to particular details 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surroundings...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I bring this up because in light of the awesome script
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which Kent has been so wonderful to write... No one will 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really look up to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see the platforms going squish. So how do we want to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present it? Would it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible to make mini cutscenes where the engine takes over 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to force the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> camera where we want it to be? There are a few other 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alternatives I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think of as well, but in terms of the boss dying and then 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the little
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> micro-quake occurring immediately after. Even if there is a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small pause
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after combat ends before the earthquake appears there is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still the ultimate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem that all 3d game development companies have had: 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making the player
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look UP. There are multitudinous other ways to doing so 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that don't involve
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking over the players control of the camera which should 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you've got an idea I recommend you make it as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difficult as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible just to make those silly code monkeys work. :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For consistant presentation of the game I think we should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably hash this out with some immediacy and might even 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be worthy of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone entry. Those are my thoughts. Feel free to leave 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some input!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Wurmz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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