[project1dev] Re: Action Camera!

  • From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 23:02:41 -0700

i like moving the boss or the trigger causing it myself but shrug :P

On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:59 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Ok, let's put this to vote.
>
> 1) bridge breaks when you come up to it. It breaks BEFORE you get there
>
> 2) bridge breaks when you kill the boss (the way it is now). The boss will
> be in a different position so you can see it.
>
> 3) something else? No extra camera work for this milestone
>
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:57 PM, Matthew Freeland <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx
> > wrote:
>
>> I kinda like the idea of the triggered break on the catwalk... we can just
>> make another miniquake when you get to that point that causes the chains to
>> break without any camera scripting or anything like that, it could be cool.
>> :D
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:49 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>> yeah that sounds like a good fix.
>>>
>>> the cave in stuff is still off screen but if everyone can live with that,
>>> thats ok (:
>>>
>>> We'll still need the camera stuff some day but shrug...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ya know, easier than all of this would be to just move the boss back
>>>> farther or make him ambush you from a different direction.
>>>>
>>>> Did we decide on what we were doing?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The abyss of... 6 feet below you? :P Kinda anti-climactic if you ask
>>>>> me. Also I think there are few things in the world more annoying than
>>>>> quicktime events. God of war ruined it for me. hehe
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the bridge should collapse after you step on it and you have
>>>>>> to press a button really quick to not fall into the abyss with it. :P
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> oh ok
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> well hey, i personally am not against them, i just think in the
>>>>>>> middle of a level they would look weird.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> having them at pivotal points though or something would at least make
>>>>>>> them not stick out as not matching the rest of the game.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i dont know how eric feels about them though so again i defer to him
>>>>>>> lol
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ahhhhh that sounds nifty. :D I agree as well that pre-rendered
>>>>>>>> cinematics are a bad idea, was just floating the idea.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Alan Wolfe 
>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> letterboxing is what you see when you watch a widescreen movie on
>>>>>>>>> your tv and it doesnt cut off the edges.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> it's the black bars
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> eric was suggesting we use them in our game as an indication that a
>>>>>>>>> cinematic is happening which is a pretty neat way to show the player 
>>>>>>>>> what's
>>>>>>>>> going on IMO :P
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Okay I have to ask... what is letterboxing?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well in games like half-life where the game never interrupts your
>>>>>>>>>>> input the way they handle it is key lighting and directional sound 
>>>>>>>>>>> to make
>>>>>>>>>>> you look a direction. That's really smart and fairly easy to do 
>>>>>>>>>>> with good
>>>>>>>>>>> QA... the problem with this particular case of the boss dying is 
>>>>>>>>>>> that you
>>>>>>>>>>> have to rapidly reorient yourself after the battle and shift back 
>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>>> exploring mode. As the quake effect happens so quickly it's 
>>>>>>>>>>> undoubtedly
>>>>>>>>>>> going to be missed 99% of the time so I think it's going to be 
>>>>>>>>>>> requisite
>>>>>>>>>>> that the game pause for a sec after the battle and goes to either a 
>>>>>>>>>>> scripted
>>>>>>>>>>> cinematic or even a pre-rendered event just so people get a feel 
>>>>>>>>>>> for whats
>>>>>>>>>>> going on.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My problem with the active sound/key lighting approach is that it
>>>>>>>>>>> CAN be good, but frequently when you have lots of colors and sounds 
>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>> around it's difficult to keep track of what is 'key' lighting. An 
>>>>>>>>>>> example
>>>>>>>>>>> would be F.E.A.R., i don't know if many of you have seen/played it, 
>>>>>>>>>>> but it
>>>>>>>>>>> does the whole ambient horror effects really well, but alot of 
>>>>>>>>>>> times you get
>>>>>>>>>>> these annoying visions of ghosts or demons or whatever they are 
>>>>>>>>>>> that try and
>>>>>>>>>>> scare the crap out of you. Sounds good in theory, but you walk into 
>>>>>>>>>>> a room
>>>>>>>>>>> full of blood stains and weird noises and all the sudden loud 
>>>>>>>>>>> scraping noise
>>>>>>>>>>> indicating one of the ghosts is popping up happens and while you're
>>>>>>>>>>> scrambling to try and find them and make sure ones not going to 
>>>>>>>>>>> shank you
>>>>>>>>>>> when you're not looking you either fall off a cliff or end up 
>>>>>>>>>>> missing them
>>>>>>>>>>> entirely because as it was being developed it was assumed you would 
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> looking at THAT pool of blood on the left side of the room with the 
>>>>>>>>>>> shiny
>>>>>>>>>>> light on it, instead of the one on the right side of the room with 
>>>>>>>>>>> the 2
>>>>>>>>>>> shiny lights on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> /end rant
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> God I hated F.E.A.R..
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, we could definitely do things like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the only thing stopping us from doing that right now is
>>>>>>>>>>>> the lack of the ability to ignore player input for a period of 
>>>>>>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We currently have the ability to offset the camera (its how we
>>>>>>>>>>>> shake the screen) so we could offset it along a specified path as 
>>>>>>>>>>>> events
>>>>>>>>>>>> happened.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If we were going to go this route wed eventually want a system
>>>>>>>>>>>> were you can specify points of interest as a point and a camera 
>>>>>>>>>>>> looking
>>>>>>>>>>>> vector, and have splines interpolate between the points but if you 
>>>>>>>>>>>> guys and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Eric wants to go this route we might have to hold off on advanced 
>>>>>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>>>>>> for now (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alternatively we can make it super cinematic and go to a flying
>>>>>>>>>>>>> third person camera that we can script like of like it were 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually a scene
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in a movie. Think about it this way... The big scary cave monster 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the end
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dies, after combat ends it goes to a quick cinematic that is just 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the camera
>>>>>>>>>>>>> moving on its own free-flying that pans and zooms out all 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hollywood-esque
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and shows the big scary monster falling to the ground briefly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots of little rocks and debris falling down on its body followed 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> by some
>>>>>>>>>>>>> big pieces of the catwalk above and the rocks that block your 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> passage. Then
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the camera sweeps back into the position it was in prior to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> whipping the big
>>>>>>>>>>>>> scary cave monsters ass. Could be sweet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Wurmz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think panning the camera would work better than zooming out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because if you zoom out, you have no clue if the event is on 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screen or not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you move the camera, you know for sure what the player is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 7:58 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I kinda like wurmz idea of taking control of the camera and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making a cut scene. We could lock player control and fly the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> camera over. Or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even simpler then that would be locking the camera and zooming 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. Then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> zooming back in after the boss dies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wurmz i am in complete agreement.  It's an issue that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game does neat stuff like bridge collapsing and cave in rocks 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnels and yet they mostly happen off screen!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From a code POV I'm up for coding just about anything but if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we come up with a cool feature that would take too long to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code, we can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always do a temp solution now and do the real solution in a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later milestone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ahoy folks, got a mini technical question as to how we plan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on directing peoples attention to particular details in their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surroundings...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I bring this up because in light of the awesome script
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which Kent has been so wonderful to write... No one will 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really look up to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see the platforms going squish. So how do we want to present 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it? Would it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible to make mini cutscenes where the engine takes over 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to force the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> camera where we want it to be? There are a few other 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alternatives I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think of as well, but in terms of the boss dying and then the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> micro-quake occurring immediately after. Even if there is a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small pause
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after combat ends before the earthquake appears there is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still the ultimate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem that all 3d game development companies have had: 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making the player
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look UP. There are multitudinous other ways to doing so that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't involve
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking over the players control of the camera which should 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you've got an idea I recommend you make it as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difficult as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible just to make those silly code monkeys work. :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For consistant presentation of the game I think we should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably hash this out with some immediacy and might even be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worthy of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone entry. Those are my thoughts. Feel free to leave 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some input!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Wurmz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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