[project1dev] Re: Action Camera!

  • From: Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 22:59:34 -0700

Ok, let's put this to vote.

1) bridge breaks when you come up to it. It breaks BEFORE you get there

2) bridge breaks when you kill the boss (the way it is now). The boss will
be in a different position so you can see it.

3) something else? No extra camera work for this milestone

On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:57 PM, Matthew Freeland

> I kinda like the idea of the triggered break on the catwalk... we can just
> make another miniquake when you get to that point that causes the chains to
> break without any camera scripting or anything like that, it could be cool.
> :D
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:49 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> yeah that sounds like a good fix.
>> the cave in stuff is still off screen but if everyone can live with that,
>> thats ok (:
>> We'll still need the camera stuff some day but shrug...
>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>> Ya know, easier than all of this would be to just move the boss back
>>> farther or make him ambush you from a different direction.
>>> Did we decide on what we were doing?
>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> The abyss of... 6 feet below you? :P Kinda anti-climactic if you ask me.
>>>> Also I think there are few things in the world more annoying than quicktime
>>>> events. God of war ruined it for me. hehe
>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>> I think the bridge should collapse after you step on it and you have to
>>>>> press a button really quick to not fall into the abyss with it. :P
>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>> oh ok
>>>>>> well hey, i personally am not against them, i just think in the middle
>>>>>> of a level they would look weird.
>>>>>> having them at pivotal points though or something would at least make
>>>>>> them not stick out as not matching the rest of the game.
>>>>>> i dont know how eric feels about them though so again i defer to him
>>>>>> lol
>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>> ahhhhh that sounds nifty. :D I agree as well that pre-rendered
>>>>>>> cinematics are a bad idea, was just floating the idea.
>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>> letterboxing is what you see when you watch a widescreen movie on
>>>>>>>> your tv and it doesnt cut off the edges.
>>>>>>>> it's the black bars
>>>>>>>> eric was suggesting we use them in our game as an indication that a
>>>>>>>> cinematic is happening which is a pretty neat way to show the player 
>>>>>>>> what's
>>>>>>>> going on IMO :P
>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Okay I have to ask... what is letterboxing?
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Well in games like half-life where the game never interrupts your
>>>>>>>>>> input the way they handle it is key lighting and directional sound 
>>>>>>>>>> to make
>>>>>>>>>> you look a direction. That's really smart and fairly easy to do with 
>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>> QA... the problem with this particular case of the boss dying is 
>>>>>>>>>> that you
>>>>>>>>>> have to rapidly reorient yourself after the battle and shift back 
>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>> exploring mode. As the quake effect happens so quickly it's 
>>>>>>>>>> undoubtedly
>>>>>>>>>> going to be missed 99% of the time so I think it's going to be 
>>>>>>>>>> requisite
>>>>>>>>>> that the game pause for a sec after the battle and goes to either a 
>>>>>>>>>> scripted
>>>>>>>>>> cinematic or even a pre-rendered event just so people get a feel for 
>>>>>>>>>> whats
>>>>>>>>>> going on.
>>>>>>>>>> My problem with the active sound/key lighting approach is that it
>>>>>>>>>> CAN be good, but frequently when you have lots of colors and sounds 
>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>> around it's difficult to keep track of what is 'key' lighting. An 
>>>>>>>>>> example
>>>>>>>>>> would be F.E.A.R., i don't know if many of you have seen/played it, 
>>>>>>>>>> but it
>>>>>>>>>> does the whole ambient horror effects really well, but alot of times 
>>>>>>>>>> you get
>>>>>>>>>> these annoying visions of ghosts or demons or whatever they are that 
>>>>>>>>>> try and
>>>>>>>>>> scare the crap out of you. Sounds good in theory, but you walk into 
>>>>>>>>>> a room
>>>>>>>>>> full of blood stains and weird noises and all the sudden loud 
>>>>>>>>>> scraping noise
>>>>>>>>>> indicating one of the ghosts is popping up happens and while you're
>>>>>>>>>> scrambling to try and find them and make sure ones not going to 
>>>>>>>>>> shank you
>>>>>>>>>> when you're not looking you either fall off a cliff or end up 
>>>>>>>>>> missing them
>>>>>>>>>> entirely because as it was being developed it was assumed you would 
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> looking at THAT pool of blood on the left side of the room with the 
>>>>>>>>>> shiny
>>>>>>>>>> light on it, instead of the one on the right side of the room with 
>>>>>>>>>> the 2
>>>>>>>>>> shiny lights on it.
>>>>>>>>>> /end rant
>>>>>>>>>> God I hated F.E.A.R..
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, we could definitely do things like that.
>>>>>>>>>>> I think the only thing stopping us from doing that right now is
>>>>>>>>>>> the lack of the ability to ignore player input for a period of time.
>>>>>>>>>>> We currently have the ability to offset the camera (its how we
>>>>>>>>>>> shake the screen) so we could offset it along a specified path as 
>>>>>>>>>>> events
>>>>>>>>>>> happened.
>>>>>>>>>>> If we were going to go this route wed eventually want a system
>>>>>>>>>>> were you can specify points of interest as a point and a camera 
>>>>>>>>>>> looking
>>>>>>>>>>> vector, and have splines interpolate between the points but if you 
>>>>>>>>>>> guys and
>>>>>>>>>>> Eric wants to go this route we might have to hold off on advanced 
>>>>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>>>>> for now (:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alternatively we can make it super cinematic and go to a flying
>>>>>>>>>>>> third person camera that we can script like of like it were 
>>>>>>>>>>>> actually a scene
>>>>>>>>>>>> in a movie. Think about it this way... The big scary cave monster 
>>>>>>>>>>>> at the end
>>>>>>>>>>>> dies, after combat ends it goes to a quick cinematic that is just 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the camera
>>>>>>>>>>>> moving on its own free-flying that pans and zooms out all 
>>>>>>>>>>>> hollywood-esque
>>>>>>>>>>>> and shows the big scary monster falling to the ground briefly 
>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by
>>>>>>>>>>>> lots of little rocks and debris falling down on its body followed 
>>>>>>>>>>>> by some
>>>>>>>>>>>> big pieces of the catwalk above and the rocks that block your 
>>>>>>>>>>>> passage. Then
>>>>>>>>>>>> the camera sweeps back into the position it was in prior to 
>>>>>>>>>>>> whipping the big
>>>>>>>>>>>> scary cave monsters ass. Could be sweet.
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Wurmz
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think panning the camera would work better than zooming out
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because if you zoom out, you have no clue if the event is on 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> screen or not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you move the camera, you know for sure what the player is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 7:58 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I kinda like wurmz idea of taking control of the camera and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making a cut scene. We could lock player control and fly the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> camera over. Or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even simpler then that would be locking the camera and zooming 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. Then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> zooming back in after the boss dies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wurmz i am in complete agreement.  It's an issue that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game does neat stuff like bridge collapsing and cave in rocks 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnels and yet they mostly happen off screen!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From a code POV I'm up for coding just about anything but if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we come up with a cool feature that would take too long to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code, we can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always do a temp solution now and do the real solution in a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later milestone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ahoy folks, got a mini technical question as to how we plan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on directing peoples attention to particular details in their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surroundings...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I bring this up because in light of the awesome script which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kent has been so wonderful to write... No one will really look 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up to see the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platforms going squish. So how do we want to present it? Would 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it possible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to make mini cutscenes where the engine takes over to force 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the camera where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we want it to be? There are a few other alternatives I can 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think of as well,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but in terms of the boss dying and then the little micro-quake 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occurring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> immediately after. Even if there is a small pause after combat 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ends before
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the earthquake appears there is still the ultimate problem 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all 3d game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development companies have had: making the player look UP. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multitudinous other ways to doing so that don't involve taking 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players control of the camera which should also be addressed. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you've got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an idea I recommend you make it as difficult as possible just 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to make those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly code monkeys work. :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For consistant presentation of the game I think we should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably hash this out with some immediacy and might even be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worthy of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone entry. Those are my thoughts. Feel free to leave 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some input!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Wurmz

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