[project1dev] Re: Action Camera!
- From: Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 22:56:54 -0700
If we don't need it yet we can save the camera work for another milestone
because that is a bit of work. I'll move the boss around and tweak it until
I am satisfied.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:49 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> yeah that sounds like a good fix.
>
> the cave in stuff is still off screen but if everyone can live with that,
> thats ok (:
>
> We'll still need the camera stuff some day but shrug...
>
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Ya know, easier than all of this would be to just move the boss back
>> farther or make him ambush you from a different direction.
>>
>> Did we decide on what we were doing?
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> The abyss of... 6 feet below you? :P Kinda anti-climactic if you ask me.
>>> Also I think there are few things in the world more annoying than quicktime
>>> events. God of war ruined it for me. hehe
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think the bridge should collapse after you step on it and you have to
>>>> press a button really quick to not fall into the abyss with it. :P
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> oh ok
>>>>>
>>>>> well hey, i personally am not against them, i just think in the middle
>>>>> of a level they would look weird.
>>>>>
>>>>> having them at pivotal points though or something would at least make
>>>>> them not stick out as not matching the rest of the game.
>>>>>
>>>>> i dont know how eric feels about them though so again i defer to him
>>>>> lol
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ahhhhh that sounds nifty. :D I agree as well that pre-rendered
>>>>>> cinematics are a bad idea, was just floating the idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> letterboxing is what you see when you watch a widescreen movie on
>>>>>>> your tv and it doesnt cut off the edges.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it's the black bars
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> eric was suggesting we use them in our game as an indication that a
>>>>>>> cinematic is happening which is a pretty neat way to show the player
>>>>>>> what's
>>>>>>> going on IMO :P
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Okay I have to ask... what is letterboxing?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well in games like half-life where the game never interrupts your
>>>>>>>>> input the way they handle it is key lighting and directional sound to
>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>> you look a direction. That's really smart and fairly easy to do with
>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>> QA... the problem with this particular case of the boss dying is that
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> have to rapidly reorient yourself after the battle and shift back into
>>>>>>>>> exploring mode. As the quake effect happens so quickly it's
>>>>>>>>> undoubtedly
>>>>>>>>> going to be missed 99% of the time so I think it's going to be
>>>>>>>>> requisite
>>>>>>>>> that the game pause for a sec after the battle and goes to either a
>>>>>>>>> scripted
>>>>>>>>> cinematic or even a pre-rendered event just so people get a feel for
>>>>>>>>> whats
>>>>>>>>> going on.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My problem with the active sound/key lighting approach is that it
>>>>>>>>> CAN be good, but frequently when you have lots of colors and sounds
>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>> around it's difficult to keep track of what is 'key' lighting. An
>>>>>>>>> example
>>>>>>>>> would be F.E.A.R., i don't know if many of you have seen/played it,
>>>>>>>>> but it
>>>>>>>>> does the whole ambient horror effects really well, but alot of times
>>>>>>>>> you get
>>>>>>>>> these annoying visions of ghosts or demons or whatever they are that
>>>>>>>>> try and
>>>>>>>>> scare the crap out of you. Sounds good in theory, but you walk into a
>>>>>>>>> room
>>>>>>>>> full of blood stains and weird noises and all the sudden loud
>>>>>>>>> scraping noise
>>>>>>>>> indicating one of the ghosts is popping up happens and while you're
>>>>>>>>> scrambling to try and find them and make sure ones not going to shank
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> when you're not looking you either fall off a cliff or end up missing
>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>> entirely because as it was being developed it was assumed you would be
>>>>>>>>> looking at THAT pool of blood on the left side of the room with the
>>>>>>>>> shiny
>>>>>>>>> light on it, instead of the one on the right side of the room with
>>>>>>>>> the 2
>>>>>>>>> shiny lights on it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> /end rant
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> God I hated F.E.A.R..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, we could definitely do things like that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think the only thing stopping us from doing that right now is
>>>>>>>>>> the lack of the ability to ignore player input for a period of time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We currently have the ability to offset the camera (its how we
>>>>>>>>>> shake the screen) so we could offset it along a specified path as
>>>>>>>>>> events
>>>>>>>>>> happened.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If we were going to go this route wed eventually want a system
>>>>>>>>>> were you can specify points of interest as a point and a camera
>>>>>>>>>> looking
>>>>>>>>>> vector, and have splines interpolate between the points but if you
>>>>>>>>>> guys and
>>>>>>>>>> Eric wants to go this route we might have to hold off on advanced
>>>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>>>> for now (:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Alternatively we can make it super cinematic and go to a flying
>>>>>>>>>>> third person camera that we can script like of like it were
>>>>>>>>>>> actually a scene
>>>>>>>>>>> in a movie. Think about it this way... The big scary cave monster
>>>>>>>>>>> at the end
>>>>>>>>>>> dies, after combat ends it goes to a quick cinematic that is just
>>>>>>>>>>> the camera
>>>>>>>>>>> moving on its own free-flying that pans and zooms out all
>>>>>>>>>>> hollywood-esque
>>>>>>>>>>> and shows the big scary monster falling to the ground briefly
>>>>>>>>>>> followed by
>>>>>>>>>>> lots of little rocks and debris falling down on its body followed
>>>>>>>>>>> by some
>>>>>>>>>>> big pieces of the catwalk above and the rocks that block your
>>>>>>>>>>> passage. Then
>>>>>>>>>>> the camera sweeps back into the position it was in prior to
>>>>>>>>>>> whipping the big
>>>>>>>>>>> scary cave monsters ass. Could be sweet.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Wurmz
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think panning the camera would work better than zooming out
>>>>>>>>>>>> because if you zoom out, you have no clue if the event is on
>>>>>>>>>>>> screen or not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you move the camera, you know for sure what the player is
>>>>>>>>>>>> looking at
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 7:58 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I kinda like wurmz idea of taking control of the camera and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> making a cut scene. We could lock player control and fly the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> camera over. Or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> even simpler then that would be locking the camera and zooming
>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. Then
>>>>>>>>>>>>> zooming back in after the boss dies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wurmz i am in complete agreement. It's an issue that the game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does neat stuff like bridge collapsing and cave in rocks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blocking tunnels
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and yet they mostly happen off screen!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From a code POV I'm up for coding just about anything but if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we come up with a cool feature that would take too long to code,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always do a temp solution now and do the real solution in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later milestone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ahoy folks, got a mini technical question as to how we plan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on directing peoples attention to particular details in their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surroundings...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I bring this up because in light of the awesome script which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kent has been so wonderful to write... No one will really look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up to see the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platforms going squish. So how do we want to present it? Would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it possible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to make mini cutscenes where the engine takes over to force the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> camera where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we want it to be? There are a few other alternatives I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think of as well,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but in terms of the boss dying and then the little micro-quake
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occurring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> immediately after. Even if there is a small pause after combat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ends before
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the earthquake appears there is still the ultimate problem that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all 3d game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development companies have had: making the player look UP.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multitudinous other ways to doing so that don't involve taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players control of the camera which should also be addressed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you've got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an idea I recommend you make it as difficult as possible just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to make those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly code monkeys work. :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For consistant presentation of the game I think we should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably hash this out with some immediacy and might even be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worthy of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone entry. Those are my thoughts. Feel free to leave some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Wurmz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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