[project1dev] Re: Action Camera!

  • From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 22:49:49 -0700

yeah that sounds like a good fix.

the cave in stuff is still off screen but if everyone can live with that,
thats ok (:

We'll still need the camera stuff some day but shrug...

On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Ya know, easier than all of this would be to just move the boss back
> farther or make him ambush you from a different direction.
> Did we decide on what we were doing?
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Matthew Freeland <mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx
> > wrote:
>> The abyss of... 6 feet below you? :P Kinda anti-climactic if you ask me.
>> Also I think there are few things in the world more annoying than quicktime
>> events. God of war ruined it for me. hehe
>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>> I think the bridge should collapse after you step on it and you have to
>>> press a button really quick to not fall into the abyss with it. :P
>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>> oh ok
>>>> well hey, i personally am not against them, i just think in the middle
>>>> of a level they would look weird.
>>>> having them at pivotal points though or something would at least make
>>>> them not stick out as not matching the rest of the game.
>>>> i dont know how eric feels about them though so again i defer to him lol
>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> ahhhhh that sounds nifty. :D I agree as well that pre-rendered
>>>>> cinematics are a bad idea, was just floating the idea.
>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>> letterboxing is what you see when you watch a widescreen movie on your
>>>>>> tv and it doesnt cut off the edges.
>>>>>> it's the black bars
>>>>>> eric was suggesting we use them in our game as an indication that a
>>>>>> cinematic is happening which is a pretty neat way to show the player 
>>>>>> what's
>>>>>> going on IMO :P
>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>> Okay I have to ask... what is letterboxing?
>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Well in games like half-life where the game never interrupts your
>>>>>>>> input the way they handle it is key lighting and directional sound to 
>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>> you look a direction. That's really smart and fairly easy to do with 
>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>> QA... the problem with this particular case of the boss dying is that 
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> have to rapidly reorient yourself after the battle and shift back into
>>>>>>>> exploring mode. As the quake effect happens so quickly it's undoubtedly
>>>>>>>> going to be missed 99% of the time so I think it's going to be 
>>>>>>>> requisite
>>>>>>>> that the game pause for a sec after the battle and goes to either a 
>>>>>>>> scripted
>>>>>>>> cinematic or even a pre-rendered event just so people get a feel for 
>>>>>>>> whats
>>>>>>>> going on.
>>>>>>>> My problem with the active sound/key lighting approach is that it
>>>>>>>> CAN be good, but frequently when you have lots of colors and sounds 
>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>> around it's difficult to keep track of what is 'key' lighting. An 
>>>>>>>> example
>>>>>>>> would be F.E.A.R., i don't know if many of you have seen/played it, 
>>>>>>>> but it
>>>>>>>> does the whole ambient horror effects really well, but alot of times 
>>>>>>>> you get
>>>>>>>> these annoying visions of ghosts or demons or whatever they are that 
>>>>>>>> try and
>>>>>>>> scare the crap out of you. Sounds good in theory, but you walk into a 
>>>>>>>> room
>>>>>>>> full of blood stains and weird noises and all the sudden loud scraping 
>>>>>>>> noise
>>>>>>>> indicating one of the ghosts is popping up happens and while you're
>>>>>>>> scrambling to try and find them and make sure ones not going to shank 
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> when you're not looking you either fall off a cliff or end up missing 
>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>> entirely because as it was being developed it was assumed you would be
>>>>>>>> looking at THAT pool of blood on the left side of the room with the 
>>>>>>>> shiny
>>>>>>>> light on it, instead of the one on the right side of the room with the 
>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>> shiny lights on it.
>>>>>>>> /end rant
>>>>>>>> God I hated F.E.A.R..
>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Alan Wolfe 
>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Yeah, we could definitely do things like that.
>>>>>>>>> I think the only thing stopping us from doing that right now is the
>>>>>>>>> lack of the ability to ignore player input for a period of time.
>>>>>>>>> We currently have the ability to offset the camera (its how we
>>>>>>>>> shake the screen) so we could offset it along a specified path as 
>>>>>>>>> events
>>>>>>>>> happened.
>>>>>>>>> If we were going to go this route wed eventually want a system were
>>>>>>>>> you can specify points of interest as a point and a camera looking 
>>>>>>>>> vector,
>>>>>>>>> and have splines interpolate between the points but if you guys and 
>>>>>>>>> Eric
>>>>>>>>> wants to go this route we might have to hold off on advanced features 
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> now (:
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Alternatively we can make it super cinematic and go to a flying
>>>>>>>>>> third person camera that we can script like of like it were actually 
>>>>>>>>>> a scene
>>>>>>>>>> in a movie. Think about it this way... The big scary cave monster at 
>>>>>>>>>> the end
>>>>>>>>>> dies, after combat ends it goes to a quick cinematic that is just 
>>>>>>>>>> the camera
>>>>>>>>>> moving on its own free-flying that pans and zooms out all 
>>>>>>>>>> hollywood-esque
>>>>>>>>>> and shows the big scary monster falling to the ground briefly 
>>>>>>>>>> followed by
>>>>>>>>>> lots of little rocks and debris falling down on its body followed by 
>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>> big pieces of the catwalk above and the rocks that block your 
>>>>>>>>>> passage. Then
>>>>>>>>>> the camera sweeps back into the position it was in prior to whipping 
>>>>>>>>>> the big
>>>>>>>>>> scary cave monsters ass. Could be sweet.
>>>>>>>>>> -Wurmz
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I think panning the camera would work better than zooming out
>>>>>>>>>>> because if you zoom out, you have no clue if the event is on screen 
>>>>>>>>>>> or not.
>>>>>>>>>>> If you move the camera, you know for sure what the player is
>>>>>>>>>>> looking at
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 7:58 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I kinda like wurmz idea of taking control of the camera and
>>>>>>>>>>>> making a cut scene. We could lock player control and fly the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> camera over. Or
>>>>>>>>>>>> even simpler then that would be locking the camera and zooming 
>>>>>>>>>>>> out. Then
>>>>>>>>>>>> zooming back in after the boss dies.
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wurmz i am in complete agreement.  It's an issue that the game
>>>>>>>>>>>>> does neat stuff like bridge collapsing and cave in rocks blocking 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnels
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and yet they mostly happen off screen!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From a code POV I'm up for coding just about anything but if we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> come up with a cool feature that would take too long to code, we 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can always
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do a temp solution now and do the real solution in a later 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Matthew Freeland <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mattthefiend@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ahoy folks, got a mini technical question as to how we plan on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directing peoples attention to particular details in their 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surroundings...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I bring this up because in light of the awesome script which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kent has been so wonderful to write... No one will really look 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up to see the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platforms going squish. So how do we want to present it? Would 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it possible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to make mini cutscenes where the engine takes over to force the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> camera where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we want it to be? There are a few other alternatives I can think 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of as well,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but in terms of the boss dying and then the little micro-quake 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occurring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> immediately after. Even if there is a small pause after combat 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ends before
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the earthquake appears there is still the ultimate problem that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all 3d game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development companies have had: making the player look UP. There 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multitudinous other ways to doing so that don't involve taking 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players control of the camera which should also be addressed. If 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you've got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an idea I recommend you make it as difficult as possible just to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly code monkeys work. :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For consistant presentation of the game I think we should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably hash this out with some immediacy and might even be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worthy of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milestone entry. Those are my thoughts. Feel free to leave some 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Wurmz

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