RE: windows vs mac (was Apple Developer site not letting me continue)
- From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 08:37:17 -0400
What's your feeling on the Mac Safari as a web browser.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Florian-achtige
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 8:20 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: windows vs mac (was Apple Developer site not letting me
continue)
Hi,
I just have to bud in on this one. Yes, Apple is far ahead when it
comes to mobile accessibility. Currently, it passes android by without
any problems. I am not saying this will always be the case, but how
things are now Apple has a definite advantage. The fact that their
screenreader is built-in and therefore part of the OS is a big plus,
as well as the fact that native UI components are as good as
accessible without too much tinkering already. This is a big plus for
developers and creates more ' accidentally accessible' apps.
Blind developers currently have to jump through hoops to get an app
together though , which is a bad thing. And there are certainly things
Windows does better than Mac at the moment. For example, I have found
the plethora of MSN messenger clients more feature-rich and usable
than clients on mac OS. I quietly jumped from mobile to desktop
though. My verdict? On the mobile front, Apple seems to be far ahead.
On the desktop platform, both OS's have their strengths and
weaknesses, it all depends on what you want your computer to do.
Windows is better at MSN, mac is better at for example digital audio
workstations and native UI accessibility. I have been using the mac
extensively for the last 5 months orso, and I use it successfully, but
I am not saying mac OS is holy and has no faults for this is just not
true.
Florian
2011/4/12, Jamal Mazrui <empower@xxxxxxxxx>:
> Another thing that I think hurts the open source cause is the state of
> accessibility on GNOME 3. My sense is that Orca support lags several
> months behind this new release of the platform. In 2011, I would have
> thought that accessibility would be better synchronized with the
> platform. This is not a criticism of the VINUX project, which does the
> best it can with available components.
>
> Jamal
>
>
> On 4/12/2011 7:26 AM, Jamal Mazrui wrote:
>> Hi Jared,
>> I agree with your analysis. The iOS versus Android situation is an
>> unexpected blow against open source accessibility principles. My best
>> explnation at this point is that Google has not taken the accessibility
>> API on Android seriously. I learned about the surprising gaps in this
>> API partly from Sina at the CSUN conference. Though indirectly related,
>> I hope the NFB action with the Department of Justice against Google apps
>> at universities helps to persuade that company to get real about
>> accessibility.
>>
>> Jamal
>>
>>
>> On 4/11/2011 8:31 PM, Jared Wright wrote:
>>> I would say Windows is about in the same boat. Honestly if someone
>>> develops a Windows app with two drops of common sense there's no reason
>>> these days why it shouldn't be accessible. Both platforms are just fine
>>> unless a developer screws it up. My comments relate more to the mobiel
>>> space where iOS is definitely ahead of Android in the accessibility
>>> game, and that's definitely partly because of the uniformity that Apple
>>> enforces on the platform. For a long time I thought Android
>>> accessibility would at least catch up and possibly surpass Apple, and I
>>> wish it would, because I think the philosophies of the Android platform
>>> will be more sustainable in the longterm. But... *sigh* it just doesn't
>>> appear to be happening. And the more I think on it, the more it
>>> shouldn't surprise me. I just have to look at my own circumstances. I
>>> have enough money to invest in either an iPhone or an Android. Now, I
>>> think I have knowledge to contribute to Android accessibility, but it's
>>> going to take a very compelling reason for me to invest money in the
>>> product that I'll have to then invest a bunch of time into as well
>>> before I can use it on the same level. So the cycle continues, and
>>> Android accessibility will persist in being an average and cluttered
>>> situation. Basically people who are in a position to make the investment
>>> in both platforms are the great majority of the real viable contributors
>>> to Android's accessibility, otherwise they have to pick between
>>> immediately being able to use their new toy or having the Android
>>> available to work on. But I don't think Apple has quite an accessibility
>>> advantage in the "nonmobile" space, where it's Mac Vs. Windows Vs.
>>> Linux. They've done well, but their the extreme cost of the Mac itself
>>> almost offsets the benefit of the screen reader being tied to the OS,
>>> especially when you have NVDA and Orca making the strides they are.
>>> Their advantage seems clear cut in the mobile arena though.
>>>
>>> P.S. I admit I haven't made the investment in either platform yet, so my
>>> comments purely relate to time spent on iPhones and a variety of Android
>>> devices I've gotten to play with from friends. Certainly sufficient to
>>> get a general feel of things, but perhaps having one of my own devices
>>> to hack away with at my leisure would make some difference. But I know
>>> at this point I'm probably going to invest in the iPhone and hope I can
>>> somehow get the funding down the road to get an Android without the
>>> benefit of a carrier subsidizing its cost in exchange for signing a
>>> contract so I can lend a hand on Android access issues. But buying
>>> smartphones straight up is expensive business.
>>> On 4/11/2011 6:42 PM, Alex Hall wrote:
>>>> Can you give examples? Everyone on the Macvisionaries list, including
>>>> Windows converts, seems to love Apple's os more. It is stable, easy,
>>>> and there seems to be nothing it can't do, not including poorly
>>>> designed third party applications.
>>>>
>>>> On 4/11/11, Ken Perry<whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> I have to disagree with this statement just because the Access comes
>>>>> attached to the OS does not mean its ahead of its competitors. In
>>>>> fact I
>>>>> have now been using mac for 7 or 8 months and I still find many
>>>>> things I
>>>>> would rather do in windows because it's just much more accessible and
>>>>> usable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jared
>>>>> Wright
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:58 PM
>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: Re: Apple Developer site not letting me continue
>>>>>
>>>>> A bit ironic that Apple's iron grip on its platform is a big part of
>>>>> why
>>>>> their accessibility is so far ahead of its competitors, especially in
>>>>> the mobile space.
>>>>> On 4/11/2011 3:10 PM, Florian-achtige wrote:
>>>>>> Ugh...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alright i Like apple and how they made stuff accessible, but their
>>>>>> idea of exclusivity is quite sickening sometimes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2011/4/11, Ken Perry<whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>>>>>>> I never tried but you might be able to fool it by using chrom or
>>>>>>> firefox
>>>>> not
>>>>>>> sure though. I bet you could do it on your Itouch but it probably
>>>>>>> won't
>>>>> be
>>>>>>> fun.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex
Hall
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 2:11 PM
>>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Apple Developer site not letting me continue
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's rediculous! At least tell me that, Apple!
>>>>>>> So I need to have someone with a mac do this, or can I do it on my
>>>>>>> iPod?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/11/11, Ken Perry<whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Let me guess you're trying to do this on a windows box? They
>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> their page rigged so you can't.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex
>>>>>>>> Hall
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 12:50 PM
>>>>>>>> To: programmingblind
>>>>>>>> Subject: Apple Developer site not letting me continue
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> I know this is a bit off topic, but I am trying to sign up for a
>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>> apple dev account and am unable to do so. I am using an existing
>>>>>>>> apple
>>>>>>>> id and am at the personal information step. Despite filling every
>>>>>>>> single field, I keep getting taken back to the same page with all
my
>>>>>>>> information filled in; the continue link is not continuing, but I
>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>> no errors on the page. Has anyone gone through this and figured it
>>>>>>>> out? Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Have a great day,
>>>>>>>> Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
>>>>>>>> mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
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>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Have a great day,
>>>>>>> Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
>>>>>>> mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
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