RE: vb code?
- From: "DaShiell, Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26" <jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:41:18 -0400
Perhaps it's often impossible to know what ide-produced code is doing
because things get added in then have undesireable effects. This is why 4gl
never replaced programmers; the business types can use their 4gl products
but often can't quite customize products to the extent they want then they
either find out they bought c.o.t.s. and workarounds may or may not work or
they bought open source and they can have things fixed but by real
programmers.
Rot47: <;F56]52D9:6==@?2GJ]>:=>
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 9:51
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: vb code?
Hi,
Another benefit of using a text editor is that you truly get to know what
the code is doing. This is more difficult with an intigrated development
environment, because you don't know what it's doing automatically unless you
work very hard at it.
Jim
----------
Jim Homme, Usability Engineering.
412-544-1810.
Catch the gratitude attitude.
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jamal Mazrui
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:01 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: vb code?
Not surprisingly perhaps, I agree with Jared about the competitiveness of a
powerful, accessible editor over a visually-oriented IDE.
IntelliSense is certainly helpful, but the IDE comes with a lot of baggage
that amounts to trade offs. Much time is wasted trying to make it work in a
friendly and efficient manner with a screen reader. The generated code is
often verbose and unclear, so once one needs to tweak the behavior, time is
lost in trying to understand and change the code in a way that will not be
unde by the supposed intelligence of the IDE.
More source doe is involved because of the template-like generated code
rather than fine-tuned manual code. The numerous project files are a
management issue in themselves, making it hard to know what file is doing
what when.
Yes, it takes more time too look up syntax in documentation without
IntelliSense, but once the concepts and syntax are learned by necessity,
they pay off in dividents!
I did everything I could to make Visual Studio as usable as possible with
JAWS, yet I ultimately concluded that I was considerably more productive
with keeping close to the code with a text editor that lets me do that.
Of course, if one is working on a team that uses an IDE, then it may be
necessary to do so, just as it may be necessary to use sighted conventions
like indentation even when they do not help, and may even hinder, a speech
user.
There are particular things an IDE is helpful for, e.g., automatically
beautifying source code for sighted consumption. I am not saying that a
text editor is better than an IDE for most programmers, but I definately
think it is a legitimate, productive choice for many, especially for blind
programmers contending with visually oriented development tools.
Jamal
On Thu, 26 Mar 2009, Jared Wright
wrote:
> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:47:54 -0500
> From: Jared Wright <wright.jaredm@xxxxxxxxx>
> Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: vb code?
>
> Rick is certainly entitled to his thoughts on the issue, but for the
> sake of hearing the other side I'll say that I get along just fine
> without the IDE. Now I'm sure the situations scale a little higher
> than the ones I'm in at the moment, but certainly I've done work on
> fairly complex, team-based software development projects using the
> .net framework. It's all about finding the environment that is
> comfortable to your personal nuances and habits, I think. The IDE may
> be an option for some, but I must disagree with its being a necessity.
>
> Jared
>
> On 3/26/2009 1:57 PM, Ricks Place wrote:
> > Hi Alex:
> > Did you set up your IDE for working with a Screen Reader and make
> > use of the JAWS Scripts?
> > If you are going to do any real programming you will need to work in
> > an IDE. There is just too much complexity and too many lines of code
> > to work in a Text Editor for anything but a small demo project.
> > How are you going to handle any Interop or SDK technicals? What
> > about DataBase, DataSets and Forms or Pages if you want to work on the
net?
> > Are you going to wire up all the web.config or app.config settings
> > by hand?
> > If you want to play around a little your plan is fine. If you are
> > going to work on any real projects or do any work at an educational
> > institution you need to learn how to make the IDE work to your
> > satisfaction. That can be done.
> > Rick USA
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