Re: [program-l] CodePlex Jaws VS 2010 AddIn - Come Join Us!
- From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 09:32:48 -0600
wrong, it is the same product.
what people are not listening to is Ken saying v.2010 would work fine if people
could update/rewrite the scripts.
Bryan Schulz
----- Original Message -----
From: Jacques Bosch
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: [program-l] CodePlex Jaws VS 2010 AddIn - Come Join Us!
Yes, ok, but they are then basically not giving the same level of free
version to blind people as they are giving to sighted people.
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 2:13 PM, Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Actually no Microsoft is giving away software for people to use as a hook
to get them to use the product. The automation which is not in the free
version does more than most know you can make your own full development
environment with it and for example if someone wrote a better UI that people
could use with the free version that would be counterproductive to Microsoft
making money on their Pay versions. So as usual the reason the free version
are limited is money.
Ken
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jacques Bosch
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 6:34 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [program-l] CodePlex Jaws VS 2010 AddIn - Come Join Us!
IMO the thing that needs to be addressed first is that VS2010 Express
should get the same UIA support as the full products. I honestly don't get why
they don't. Dose somebody know MS's thoughts behind this? Or a link explaining
it?
Thanx.
Jacques
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:01 PM, RicksPlace <ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
PMy problem is that I use the Express modules. Perhaps if there were a way
to get, or use legally, a copy of Visual Studio I might be interested in
playing around a little to see what it all entails. I know that students of
credited schools get free or low cost copies and there are other situations
where MS has given away copies or sold them at a very low cost. If MS were to
allow registered designers of the interface to use the student version of their
software that might be a low enough cost to make it a viable option for a home
hobbiest on a very limited budget. I would still need to wait for GW Micro to
get out their next version of WindowEyes since the current version, 7.2, does
not support the recent accessibility hooks replacing MSAA nor the newer
internet standards. At that, the new GW scripting model might give as good of
support as the plug-in if all the accessibility features of VS are accessible
via the new UIA hooks for objects and process. Anyway, my guess is that there
would be more folks willing to play with the code if they could do so without
having to lay out cash out of their own pockets or, at least, lay out a small
amount.
For you University students and Industry Professionals, it would be better
to hire a developer to use whatever tools are necessary to make the package
totally accessible in a simple to use and responsive manner. Then you get
professional development with a consistent design, a support person who is paid
to keep things up to date from release to release and likely a phone number to
call and remote sessions for paid or group support of the product and perhaps
VS itself.
.
If you do it for free it would be nice but if you want something of
professional QUALITY it needs to be developed and maintained by either an
established company or by a professional well aquainted with all accessibility
technicals and also with fairly heavy use of the Visual Studio product line
with a screen reader. Both are quite complicated in my opinion when you dig
into the depths of each technical and explore the features other than the very
most basics. That is why I did not fully support the idea of a free solution at
this level, it has allot of holes and potentially fatel holes as I have seen
over the years with other projects that depend on volunteers. The current JAWS
scripts are fairly simple, very simple me thinks, compared to a full blown
combined plugin and scripting solution that would work well for serious
demanding professional environments requiring DataBase, Internet - Web, various
DB, UI and other Designer support, DeBugging and dynamic visuals for wpf,
Silverlight and the other newer features and more features that I just can't
think of off the top of my head right now. Let's say you manage to get a nice
solution and a couple of years from now, or perhaps one year, MS changes up the
IDE, the Designers or other internal features requiring major changes to code
segments. If the folks who were working on the complex code blocks are no
longer available to dedicate time to the project, well, it would not work for
those folks who depend on it at their University or their Jobs and some may
fail their attempts to continue their education or even lose their jobs because
someone at your end does not have time to keep the code up to date.
"Remembering that this code is for professionals or students who will,
hopefully, become professionals and not hobbiests it makes sense to me to
devote dollars into making this product a product, and or, service of an
existing and credable company with experience in such technicals and a history
of quality and the likelyhood of a continuing feature in the field so the
product will continue to be supported over the next couple of decades without
inturruption or problems from the Blind Community of Professionals depending on
the Accessibility Product to support themselves and their families. Phew!
Sorry for the long post but I wanted to explain why I was not fully behind this
idea from the start. Because of the nature of the VS Product it is geared for
professionals who can afford, or are required for other reasons, to work in it
and, or buy it.
These folks either make money from it's use or their Educational
institutions make money from the students or the State. Therefore, it is
logical to funnel some of that money into a product that will make the required
product, MS VS Studio available to those will benefit from its use.
It is just logical and also correct in my opinion.
Sonar has remained accessible over the years using this approach and
accessibility is likely as though.
Rick USA
.i----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "Justin Daubenmire" <jdaubenmire@xxxxxxxxx>;
<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [program-l] CodePlex Jaws VS 2010 AddIn - Come Join Us!
I have noticed a number of negative reactions to Justin's post below. I
think legitimate issues were raised, but a more constructive approach would be
to engage in discussion with Justin about what features of the project would
make you want to join. Through discussion, hopefully enough people can agree
on something to work on collaboratively.
Jamal
On 11/15/2010 7:01 PM, Justin Daubenmire wrote:
Hi Everyone,
I have setup a code plex open source project for programming a vs 2010
addin for the jaws for windows screen reader.
All information about the addin and for joining the project is found
at the following link:
http://jawsvs2010.codeplex.com/
Please pass on the link to any list or person you think would enjoy
being part of the team and contributing.
I will be on list and available for any questions. I am looking
forward to all of us completing this project.
Thanks and please let me know if there are any questions!
Regards,
Justin
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Jacques Bosch
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