RE: [program-l] CodePlex Jaws VS 2010 AddIn - Come Join Us!
- From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 07:13:23 -0500
Actually no Microsoft is giving away software for people to use as a hook to
get them to use the product. The automation which is not in the free
version does more than most know you can make your own full development
environment with it and for example if someone wrote a better UI that people
could use with the free version that would be counterproductive to Microsoft
making money on their Pay versions. So as usual the reason the free version
are limited is money.
Ken
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jacques Bosch
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 6:34 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [program-l] CodePlex Jaws VS 2010 AddIn - Come Join Us!
IMO the thing that needs to be addressed first is that VS2010 Express should
get the same UIA support as the full products. I honestly don't get why they
don't. Dose somebody know MS's thoughts behind this? Or a link explaining
it?
Thanx.
Jacques
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:01 PM, RicksPlace <ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
PMy problem is that I use the Express modules. Perhaps if there were a way
to get, or use legally, a copy of Visual Studio I might be interested in
playing around a little to see what it all entails. I know that students of
credited schools get free or low cost copies and there are other situations
where MS has given away copies or sold them at a very low cost. If MS were
to allow registered designers of the interface to use the student version of
their software that might be a low enough cost to make it a viable option
for a home hobbiest on a very limited budget. I would still need to wait for
GW Micro to get out their next version of WindowEyes since the current
version, 7.2, does not support the recent accessibility hooks replacing MSAA
nor the newer internet standards. At that, the new GW scripting model might
give as good of support as the plug-in if all the accessibility features of
VS are accessible via the new UIA hooks for objects and process. Anyway, my
guess is that there would be more folks willing to play with the code if
they could do so without having to lay out cash out of their own pockets or,
at least, lay out a small amount.
For you University students and Industry Professionals, it would be better
to hire a developer to use whatever tools are necessary to make the package
totally accessible in a simple to use and responsive manner. Then you get
professional development with a consistent design, a support person who is
paid to keep things up to date from release to release and likely a phone
number to call and remote sessions for paid or group support of the product
and perhaps VS itself.
.
If you do it for free it would be nice but if you want something of
professional QUALITY it needs to be developed and maintained by either an
established company or by a professional well aquainted with all
accessibility technicals and also with fairly heavy use of the Visual Studio
product line with a screen reader. Both are quite complicated in my opinion
when you dig into the depths of each technical and explore the features
other than the very most basics. That is why I did not fully support the
idea of a free solution at this level, it has allot of holes and potentially
fatel holes as I have seen over the years with other projects that depend on
volunteers. The current JAWS scripts are fairly simple, very simple me
thinks, compared to a full blown combined plugin and scripting solution that
would work well for serious demanding professional environments requiring
DataBase, Internet - Web, various DB, UI and other Designer support,
DeBugging and dynamic visuals for wpf, Silverlight and the other newer
features and more features that I just can't think of off the top of my head
right now. Let's say you manage to get a nice solution and a couple of years
from now, or perhaps one year, MS changes up the IDE, the Designers or other
internal features requiring major changes to code segments. If the folks who
were working on the complex code blocks are no longer available to dedicate
time to the project, well, it would not work for those folks who depend on
it at their University or their Jobs and some may fail their attempts to
continue their education or even lose their jobs because someone at your end
does not have time to keep the code up to date. "Remembering that this code
is for professionals or students who will, hopefully, become professionals
and not hobbiests it makes sense to me to devote dollars into making this
product a product, and or, service of an existing and credable company with
experience in such technicals and a history of quality and the likelyhood of
a continuing feature in the field so the product will continue to be
supported over the next couple of decades without inturruption or problems
from the Blind Community of Professionals depending on the Accessibility
Product to support themselves and their families. Phew! Sorry for the long
post but I wanted to explain why I was not fully behind this idea from the
start. Because of the nature of the VS Product it is geared for
professionals who can afford, or are required for other reasons, to work in
it and, or buy it.
These folks either make money from it's use or their Educational
institutions make money from the students or the State. Therefore, it is
logical to funnel some of that money into a product that will make the
required product, MS VS Studio available to those will benefit from its use.
It is just logical and also correct in my opinion.
Sonar has remained accessible over the years using this approach and
accessibility is likely as though.
Rick USA
.i----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "Justin Daubenmire" <jdaubenmire@xxxxxxxxx>;
<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [program-l] CodePlex Jaws VS 2010 AddIn - Come Join Us!
I have noticed a number of negative reactions to Justin's post below. I
think legitimate issues were raised, but a more constructive approach would
be to engage in discussion with Justin about what features of the project
would make you want to join. Through discussion, hopefully enough people
can agree on something to work on collaboratively.
Jamal
On 11/15/2010 7:01 PM, Justin Daubenmire wrote:
Hi Everyone,
I have setup a code plex open source project for programming a vs 2010
addin for the jaws for windows screen reader.
All information about the addin and for joining the project is found
at the following link:
http://jawsvs2010.codeplex.com/
Please pass on the link to any list or person you think would enjoy
being part of the team and contributing.
I will be on list and available for any questions. I am looking
forward to all of us completing this project.
Thanks and please let me know if there are any questions!
Regards,
Justin
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